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56210Re: Well done waterfall+agile

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  • woynam
    Nov 9, 2012
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      Yea, we all know that the folks in the agile community are just a bunch of misfit troublemakers. :-)

      The software development industry was going along just fine until the signers of the Agile Manifesto decided to apply a bit of empiricism to the process, and it's been down hill ever since.

      Large consulting firms made billions using waterfall. They didn't actually produce anything of value for their customers, (well, not without a crap load of lucrative change orders), but hey, it worked out well for them.

      Mark

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Adam Sroka <adam.sroka@...> wrote:
      >
      > The actual business question is can we deliver what the customer wants in
      > the timeframe they want it and still make money? However you figure that
      > out it is an interesting question.
      >
      > The problem with the suggested approach is that it is a lot like the tale
      > of the Emperor's New Clothes. We are crafting a plan that we all know is
      > bullshit and trying to fudge it in such a way that none of us looks like
      > the guy who got it wrong. But, in actual fact we all know that it is
      > bullshit and that there's no possible way it is going to go down exactly
      > like we are saying.
      >
      > I used to think that something was wrong with everyone else, but over the
      > years I have begun to understand that it is actually me. For some reason
      > normal people think it is okay to do things that don't make any sense if
      > someone is paying them to do it. I am pathologically incapable of that.
      >
      > On Fri, Nov 9, 2012 at 6:49 AM, woynam <woyna@...> wrote:
      >
      > > **
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Actually, the latest episode of Mythbusters demonstrated that it is
      > > possible to cycle under water. 'Just don't try going uphill. :-)
      > >
      > > I agree with the others. If you're crazy enough to sign a fixed bid
      > > contract to execute a fixed scope project, then you're going to have to
      > > face the music. There's nothing agile about this. I guarantee you that if
      > > you attempt to apply an agile label to this effort, when it crashed and
      > > burns (95% certainty), waterfall will not get the blame. It will all be
      > > agile's fault.
      > >
      > > Mark
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Ashish Mahajan" <agileashish@>
      > > wrote:
      > > >
      > > > Agreed.
      > > > If you are good at swimming in water(fall),fine.
      > > > If you are good at cycling(scrum cycles), fine.
      > > > But trying cycling in water may be fatal.
      > > >
      > > > Regards
      > > > Ashish
      > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® smartphone
      > >
      > > >
      > > > -----Original Message-----
      > > > From: Eric Tiongson <tiongks@>
      > > > Sender: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2012 13:12:37
      > > > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com<scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Reply-To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > > > Cc: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com<scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      > > > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Well done waterfall+agile
      > > >
      > > > Agree with what Michael said, you'll just find yourself in a heap of
      > > trouble if you do that.
      > > >
      > > > However you can still use agile practices (not processes) within a
      > > waterfall processes.
      > > >
      > > > Sent from my iPhone
      > > >
      > > > On Nov 9, 2012, at 12:52 PM, Michael Vizdos <mvizdos@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > > No.
      > > > >
      > > > > Don't do this.
      > > > >
      > > > > If you want to do waterfall. Just do that.
      > > > >
      > > > > Good luck.
      > > > >
      > > > > Don't fake it.
      > > > >
      > > > > Mike Vizdos
      > > > >
      > > > > On Nov 8, 2012 6:08 PM, "marcodorantes" <marcodorantes@> wrote:
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Hi all,
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I am looking for articles or papers that talk about the details of
      > > how to successfully execute a development project with a waterfall façade
      > > to the upper-management layer and an agile approach for the development
      > > team. All is new in the project: the team, the users, the application, the
      > > technology. Note that with «waterfall» I mean strict sequential stages of
      > > requirements, analysis, design, coding, testing, deployment to production,
      > > and three months of maintenance; along with a fixed-price/fixed-scope
      > > contract, and a single Gantt chart as part of the signed contract. This
      > > Gantt chart will work as the criteria for payments at the end of each stage
      > > against stated deliverables in the contract.
      > >
      > > > >>
      > > > >> I have heard, from time to time, that some teams have done precisely
      > > that and very well done. Yet, I have not checked the evidence to believe it.
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Could you point to those articles or papers, or experiences?
      > > > >>
      > > > >> Thank you very much in advance.
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      >
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