55685Re: [scrumdevelopment] Weakness in Product Management?
- Sep 5, 2012I am interested in this thread as I am working on just such a situation right now. I want to clarify what you mean by "Product Management", just another word for Product Owners? Or do you see a separate function from PO? I ask this not because I have any problem with PM, just that I thought within the world of scrum we no longer talk about product management. Is it just another word?- PitoOn Sep 5, 2012, at 6:59 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSP CSM PSM I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:Greg,
> Product management is still an immature profession. It is an extremely hard job to do well. I imagine it may take a similar time frame for companies to learn how to master this discipline as it did for them to learn how to master software development.
It sure seems that way to me. I think there is definitely more work to be done here. Someone at Agile2012 tweeted something that stuck with me and it continues to bother me some... it was along the lines of "Seems like most [Agile2012] sessions are still about building things right instead of deciding whether the thing is worth building at all."It seems like the Lean Startup people are headed in the right direction in terms of validated learning, etc. It may just be time to peel off the next layer of the onion and see how we can get better at Product Management.-------
From: gregc <greg@...>
Sent: Monday, September 3, 2012 12:02 AM
Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Weakness in Product Management?
I'd have to agree with Alan, weak PM has existed a good long time but not that development teams can deliver quickly and predictably it exposes the weak PM issue. It's similar to the bottleneck moving but this is deeper than an issue in capacity.
This is where I spend most of time. Product management is still an immature profession. It is an extremely hard job to do well. I imagine it may take a similar time frame for companies to learn how to master this discipline as it did for them to learn how to master software development.
--- In email@example.com, Alan Dayley <alandd@...> wrote:
> In my experience weak product management is not a trend. It is the norm.
> It has been the norm for my entire working life. In fact, in most
> companies I have seen, just having a part-time Product Owner is a
> significant improvement over what they had before. And improvement is true
> even at companies that have full-time "product managers" before attempting
> What has been your experience with good product management?
> On Thu, Aug 30, 2012 at 12:34 PM, Charles Bradley - Scrum Coach CSP CSM PSM
> I <chuck-lists2@...> wrote:
> > **
> > I'm starting to see a trend in the industry on this, and I'm curious if
> > others are seeing similar trends.
> > Now that we've got the software dev a lot more predictable and
> > transparent, it seems the transparency has shed light on the fact that many
> > Product Managers/Owners(if they really exist) are really unsuccessful at
> > predicting product success(though the blame chain might not stop there).
> > Further, it seems that many companies do not invest enough in this space
> > (product research, collaborative feedback from users, usability, product
> > visioning, marketing, etc).
> > At the Agile2012 conference, Jim Highsmith (one of the AM authors), was
> > highly quoted in his presentation as saying something like this,
> > "[Business]You're not going to measure value? Fine, we[Dev] won't measure
> > cost, then."
> > I think SW dev has gotten pretty good at measuring cost, but it seems
> > often to me that the business side of the house hasn't gotten any better at
> > measuring value. It used to be that the business could hide behind the
> > delays, defects, and high cost overruns of the software development
> > department. In places where Agile software dev is done well, we've fixed
> > those problems, and now the next layer of the onion is turning those costs
> > into a justifiable ROI.
> > I've seen possible signs(smells?) of this problem in the following ways:
> > - The dev team outstrips the business' ability to come up with new
> > features/products.
> > - Shakeups in product management departments due to the missing of
> > forecasted ROI of new features
> > - Subpoint: Not building in enough validations in a product to
> > optimize the value of features delivered.
> > - Not valuing the product management field enough to hire dedicated
> > Scrum Product Owners and similar personnel
> > Obviously all of these could be caused by other things. I'm not convinced
> > this is a real trend or a real problem. It's just something I've been
> > pondering lately after witnessing some of the above scenarios and after
> > hearing of Jim's quote.
> > -------
> > Charles Bradley
> > http://www.ScrumCrazy.com <http://www.scrumcrazy.com/>
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