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55349Re: [scrumdevelopment] Like to do Scrum certification, please guide me

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  • Steve Crago
    Jul 3, 2012
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      Looking at my copy of "Agile Estimating and Planning" and my copy of the course material by the same name, I don't see where he treats story points as ideal days, in fact it is just the opposite.  On page 69, the title says it all "Chapter 8 Choosing between Story Points and Ideal Days".  He starts out talking about story points, afterwards he discusses ideal days.  He then goes over the pros and cons of both processes and provides his recommendation, which is to use Story Points.  He also states on page 71, "Story points are a pure measure of size.  Ideal days are not."  In his summary of the chapter he states "A team can choose to estimate in either story points or ideal days.  Each is a viable choice with advantages to recommend it."
      Hopefully I haven't misinterpreted your response "Treating story points as ideal man days was one example, but I remember coming across a few more."  I'm not sure where or how you got this idea and would be interested to know where it came from so that I might expand my own level of knowledge.
      While there may be some information that needs updating, you shouldn't throw the baby out with the bath water, so to speak.  I'm not so sure about your statement regarding a lot of issues that teams have issues with are from "these old books".  I've been using many of them on small and large mobile projects with minimal difficulty, most of my problems have not been with the process outlined in the books as much as it has been with dissenting personalities and rigid management requirements.
      Mike's books still have alot of relevant and helpful information, even in 2012.
      I also attended 3 of his courses in 2011, including the Agile Estimating and Planning course, and the material he presented was extremely valuable and current at that time.
      Good luck on your PMI-ACP test.
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Monday, July 02, 2012 9:44 PM
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Like to do Scrum certification, please guide me


      Are Mike Cohn's books really that great in 2012?

      I have just been reading them recently (slowing preparing for the PMI-ACP) and a lot of the issues that teams have trouble with seem to come directly from suggestions from these old books.

      Treating story points as ideal man days was one example, but I remember coming across a few more.

      On Jun 23, 2012, at 5:50 PM, Steve Crago wrote:


      +1 on Charles' recommendations.
      Study the Scrum Guide.
      Get all the books that Mike Cohn has on Agile and study them, notice I did not say read them, there is a difference.
      Read "Exploring Scrum:  The Fundamentals" by Dan Rawsthorne and Doug Shimp.
      Attend a couple of courses, especially by Mike Cohn.  I've attended 3 of Mike's courses and they are well worth the time and money.
      After all of this, the fun really begins.  Keep studying books and attending classes, if you're not careful you'll end up learning something new everyday.
      Good luck. .... And no, I do not work for the Scrum Alliance or any of the authors/teachers that I have mentioned.... nor am I a book publisher ...
      CSM, PSM I
      ----- Original Message -----
      Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2012 9:20 AM
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Like to do Scrum certification, please guide me


      I don't agree with Mark on this, but it's probably just semantics.  I think you can learn about Scrum just fine from the Scrum Guide and other books.  Learning to do Scrum *well*, now that's a different story.

      Looking back, I really enjoyed my Scrum class from a Scrum Alliance trainer, but where I have spent the vast majority of my time learning about Scrum and how to do it well is by reading books and articles, and then practicing what I learned on real life Scrum teams.  So, in my view, *for individuals who will actually spend a lot of time on self study*, self study and practice can help you "truly learn" to do Scrum *well*.

      For those individuals who won't diligently self study(which is about 90%+ of the general population, IMO), training is probably a better route to certification.

      <self serving comment> Mark mentioned training, but it is my current view that training is not enough and the best overall situation for transforming a team to Scrum is to send them to one of the 2 day courses (provided by Scrum Alliance or Scrum.org), AND have an on-site coach at least 50% of the time, for about 6-12 months(with a few 2 week follow up visits every 6 months or so for a year or two).  You could also have the coach spend 100% of their time on site and transform 2-3 teams. </self serving comment>

      BUT, returning back to the OP's question, the easiest and cheapest self study route to certification that I know of is the Scrum.org PSM I certification.  In short, read the Scrum Guide over and over again, take the Scrum Open assessment over and over again, and then take the real cert test.  Total cost:  $100.

      Here's where to get started:  http://www.scrum.org/scrummaster/

      Once you get that cert, read these books in the following order:  Cohn's _Agile Estimating and Planning_, Cohn's _User Stories Applied_, and then Cohn's _Succeeding With Agile_.   As you learn new things by reading these books, try to convince your team to practice the new things you've learned.

      By the time you do all that, you won't need more advice on what to do next -- you'll probably know what your next step is.
      Charles Bradley

      From: Mark Levison <mark@...>
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Friday, June 22, 2012 11:14 PM
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Like to do Scrum certification, please guide me

      Mythili - Scrum isn't something you can truly learn by reading a book. Nor can it be learned well by lecture. Scrum is something you learn by doing. The ScrumAlliance certification requires you participate in class so you can experience Scrum through the exercises. In addition working in person with a trainer helps them see if you're ready for certification.

      Caveat Emptor I'm a Certified Scrum Trainer and so run such courses. For that reason I will also not comment on the Scrum.org certifications.

      Certification or not, what really matters is getting practical experience.

      Mark Levison

      On Fri, Jun 15, 2012 at 1:50 AM, mythili_may11 <mythili_may11@...> wrote:
      Hi Group,

      Currently I'm working on a project which uses Scrum methodology. I'm very much impressed and would like to do a certification. I found couple of sites, where they train for 2 days and after an exam will provide a certification.

      My question, is it possible to take the certification exam after self-preparation. For a self-preparation, what are the materials I need to go through. From where I have to start.

      Can some one please guide me, thanks in advance!


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