Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

55079RE: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Velocity Question

Expand Messages
  • Steve Ropa
    May 9, 2012
    • 0 Attachment

      I always struggle with the phrase “has to…” and its variants.  I have seen teams successfully do what you are suggesting and re-estimate their stories.  I have seen just as many teams do what I strongly recommend and keeping the size the same.  They were every bit as successful, maybe a little bit more. 

       

      The reason I recommend not re-estimating the work is twofold.  Bret does a great job eloquently explaining why keeping the size the same is valuable, although I oppose the idea of “credit” at any stage of the game.  Mostly, since estimates are of minimal value in the first place, why spend valuable time re-estimating something when we could better be spending that time making software?

       

      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of gopinath
      Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 9:14 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Velocity Question

       

       



      Mark,

      I am not trying to equate story points with duration. Not sure what made it sound otherwise. Sorry if I was not clear enough.

      All I am trying to say is - no credit to be given for a partially completed story in Sprint 1. And the work (i.e. in terms of size) which remains in that story has to be treated as a new backlog item, re-prioritized (if necessary) and re-estimated at the beginning of Sprint 2. This will give a closer indication to the size/complexity of the work to be undertaken in Sprint 2.

      Not sure whether you went through the link which I had given as reference
      http://elegantcode.com/2008/09/16/what-to-do-with-left-over-stories/
      This fully describes what I intended to convey.

      And yes as you rightly say,time should be spent discussing why the story was not delivered and how to ensure that such occurrences are minimized. This has to be done in during Sprint 1 retrospective.

      Gopinath

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "woynam" <woyna@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      > I have no problem re-estimating stories in the backlog that haven't started.
      >
      > It sounds like you're trying to equate story points with duration. A story point represents a measure of value/size, not duration. A point point story not delivered is worth nothing to the business. If it's completed on the first day of the next Sprint, then the full value of 5 points is available at the end of the 2nd Sprint when the product is delivered.
      >
      > Velocity is intended to be a rough planning tool. Spending time re-estimating work in progress is a smell. The time should be spent discussing why the story was not delivered, rather than the amount of effort required to complete it.
      >
      > Mark
      >
      >
      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "gopinath" <gopinath_ram@> wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Mark,
      > >
      > > I agree with you on "If you re-estimate the stories, the velocity will not reflect their original size."
      > >
      > > Preserving the information about the original size estimate is one approach. I won't say it is wrong. It may be useful while doing relative estimation.
      > >
      > > But I tend towards re-prioritizing and re-estimating the unfinished stories in the next Sprint as it reflects the current situation better.
      > >
      > > This blog post by David Starr explains very clearly why we need to do so:
      > > http://elegantcode.com/2008/09/16/what-to-do-with-left-over-stories/
      > >
      > > Gopinath
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "woynam" <woyna@> wrote:
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > No, that is not correct. The velocity for Sprint 1 will not include the unfinished stories. Thus, the full size of the stories will be part of the velocity calculation for Sprint 2. If you re-estimate the stories, the velocity will not reflect their original size.
      > > >
      > > > Again, this is the reason many recommend using a rolling average when calculating velocity. A 5 point story that's completed during the first day of the 2nd Sprint will contribute zero points towards the velocity of the first Sprint, and 5 points towards the velocity of the 2nd Sprint, even though there was only a small amount of work remaining.
      > > >
      > > > Mark
      > > >
      > > >
      > > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "gopinath" <gopinath_ram@> wrote:
      > > > >
      > > > > I am in agreement with previous responses to this question.
      > > > > However at the beginning of Sprint 2 you should re-estimate the story points for the two partially finished stories carried over from Sprint 1.
      > > > >
      > > > > Gopinath
      > > > >
      > > > >
      > > > > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Rama Bharti <ramabharti@> wrote:
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Hi,
      > > > > >
      > > > > > I have a question on velocity.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > For instance, you have sprint 1 and sprint 2.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Sprint 1 has 5 stories which in total is 50 story points. Each story
      > > > > > is of size 10 story point.
      > > > > > Sprint 2 has 5 stories which in total is 50 story points. Each story
      > > > > > is of size 10 story point.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Now sprint 1 ends with 3 stories completed and 2 story partially
      > > > > > completed( 80 %done). What will be velocity of Sprint 1? I assume it
      > > > > > will be 30.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Now pending 2 stories are moved to sprint 2. and at the end of sprint
      > > > > > 2 , all seven stories are finished( 2 which were moved from Sprint1
      > > > > > and 5 Sprint2 stories). So velocity of sprint 2 is 70.
      > > > > >
      > > > > > How do you explain this difference in velocity to management?
      > > > > >
      > > > > >
      > > > > > Thanks.
      > > > > >
      > > > >
      > > >
      > >
      >

    • Show all 29 messages in this topic