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52787Re: Story point estimating - ideal time vs relative scale

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  • Joe
    Oct 7 8:50 AM
      Hi Michael,

      I would DEFINITELY do story points.

      Ideal hours do not actually communicate effort well (people won't agree what an ideal hour really means).
      People are terrible at estimating time. Relative size/complexity gets estimated much better, and is much less likely to be skewed (usually under or over estimated).
      Story points comes back to time as soon as you declare "this team can do about 20 story points per 2-week sprint".
      Only the output of the team is meaningful...THAT's what we need to know, and then we need to know how to fill (but not over-fill) that capacity of the team, each sprint.
      QED: Story points. (Well, the short version of the case.)

      Don't ask them to agree to do story points. They have no experience, their answer is not meaningful...at least until they have experience. Say, "we're gonna do this new well-established technique." And give it at least 4 sprints. You can tell them it's an experiment and if is terrible after 4 sprints, we'll change it. (It won't be if anyone is professional around there.)

      You might need a good coach to have the authority and the detailed experience to make it work better from Day 1. Seems expensive, but it is not compared to the alternative.

      Regards,
      Joe

      LeanAgileTraining.com


      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Reinert" <rekahm@...> wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      > Hi,
      >
      > There are a lot of advantages if you go for using only story points in your estimation of user stories. I.e. abondoning hours / time totally in all your estimates including (developer) tasks. If you are interested in more information, please check out www.rapidscrum.com. The link "AgileIndy Presentation: Hours are Dead" under "RESOURCES" gives you some more information. I've used many of the techniques he is describing and though they are quite unfamiliar, they are very powerful.
      >
      > Reinert
      >
      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Michael Jones <michaelhardwinjones@> wrote:
      > >
      > > Hi,
      > >
      > > We're rolling out an agile process in my company, where waterfall processes
      > > have been used up to now.
      > >
      > > I've been involved in a couple of discussions/debates with various folk here
      > > (a product manager and a fellow PM) about the units developers should use to
      > > estimate user stories in the sprint planning meeting. Specifically whether
      > > to use ideal time (e.g. "1 ideal hour"), or relative scale (e.g. "about the
      > > same as that registration form we did").
      > >
      > > I have my own views, but what are your thoughts? Are there any stand-out
      > > benefits of either in your experience? Should we throw it as an open
      > > question to our developers?
      > >
      > > Thanks,
      > > Michael
      > >
      >
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