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48087Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Thoughts on use of explicit Agile Modeling vs "emergent design"

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  • George Dinwiddie
    Aug 20, 2010
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      Petri

      On 8/20/10 3:28 AM, petriheiramo wrote:
      > Hi Dave,
      >
      >
      >> Not to put too fine a point on it, but what you said was, "Yes,
      >> indeed, who have the sufficient skill and understanding to cut
      >> through unnecessary details, look at the very core of things,
      >> identify the first things to try sensibly and have the skills to
      >> evolve the architecture as they develop the system."
      >>
      >> There's nothing specifically Agile in any of that. That's just
      >> plain, old-fashioned critical thinking. Vital for programmers of
      >> any ilk and, yes, vital for Agile practitioners too.
      >>
      >> My point was that good programmers have those skills already, and
      >> there's no reason to believe that they wouldn't apply them to
      >> implementing Agile.
      >
      > Well, not all architect level people have that skill. They have the
      > skills to create complicated architectures, so they create them. Not
      > all of them have the mindset to focus on right things from Agile
      > perspective. Of course, you might not call them "good".

      In my experience, it's the architects who no longer code who do this.

      > AND I was not referring to technical skill, although that, too, is
      > necessary. Also, not all people think "critically" the same way;
      > people disagree what the core issues could be.

      Isn't that the point? People can argue about models until the cows come
      home. Trying an experiment gives them information that guides the
      discussion. It give bounds when it shows that an approach isn't feasible.

      > All you have to do is to listen to traditional architects who
      > defiantly claim that they just have to design the whole architecture
      > first (or the sky will fall), and you know there is skill and
      > knowledge involved in being able to do Agile design.

      Yes, and that skill and knowledge comes from practice, not from
      continuing to do the same thing (design without code).

      As you probably know, many of those "whole architectures designed first"
      turn out to be really terrible when you try to implement them. Other
      places, they're not understood or ignored by the developers anyway.

      - George

      --
      ----------------------------------------------------------------------
      * George Dinwiddie * http://blog.gdinwiddie.com
      Software Development http://www.idiacomputing.com
      Consultant and Coach http://www.agilemaryland.org
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