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48043Re: Thoughts on use of explicit Agile Modeling vs "emergent design"

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  • petriheiramo
    Aug 19 1:14 AM
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      Hi Dave,


      > I have yet to meet a developer that has "sufficient skill and
      > understanding" to actually build good, working systems that doesn't have
      > "sufficient skill and understanding to cut through unnecessary details,
      > look at the very core of things" and act sensibly. If only you'll let
      > them.

      By "sufficient skill and understanding" I was referring more to their Agile practices skills, not domain or technology skills. I've seen lots of people who are very good at the latter, but virtually lack the former. Yes, they can build the system, but they are very influenced by their past development practices. Of course, if they want to embrace Agile, they have the capacity to learn fast.

      And sometimes even those guys get thrown into a project with a lot of new things to them, while they are expected to use Scrum, which is also new to them. In these environments, it may be sometimes useful to give a bit more time to "get their bearings" before committing to delivery.

      None of that means that I wouldn't generally try to limit the preliminary "pre-game" period to the minimum.


      Yours Sincerely, Petri

      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, David A Barrett <dave.barrett@...> wrote:
      >
      > >> > I personally think there is too much "just get going" attitude in
      > >> > Agile culture. It works in some environments, with some teams.
      > >>
      > >> Yes, it works for those teams that think as they're doing.
      > >
      > >Yes, indeed, who have the sufficient skill and understanding to cut
      > through
      > > unnecessary details, look at the very core of things, identify the first
      > > things to try sensibly and have the skills to evolve the architecture
      > >as they develop the system.
      > >
      > >Recommending that approach to a team who is new to Agile and
      > >the techniques is a bit irresponsible, in my opinion, because so many
      > >new teams "get going" too fast and stumble not long after. Then they
      > >say "Agile doesn't work, because...". So it pays to do a bit more
      > >preliminary research and extra thinking (supported, of course, by a
      > >coach, I hope, who can advice them appropriately away from
      > > too-much-thinking), before getting to action.
      >
      > I have to admit that I had a strong (negative) visceral reaction to this
      > post.
      >
      > All of us were new to Agile at some point, and some of us were doing it
      > when it felt like no one else we knew was doing it. So we didn't have the
      > experiences of others to guide us as we figured out what it was all about
      > and how to make it work for us.
      >
      > And yes, we made mistakes. Lots of mistakes. But even with mistakes it
      > was better than what we were doing before, so our customers still came out
      > winners. We were still felt like we were succeeding.
      >
      > I have yet to meet a developer that has "sufficient skill and
      > understanding" to actually build good, working systems that doesn't have
      > "sufficient skill and understanding to cut through unnecessary details,
      > look at the very core of things" and act sensibly. If only you'll let
      > them.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Dave Barrett
      >
      >
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