47050Re: [scrumdevelopment] Prioritization of Stories in Business Productivity Automation
- Jun 1, 2010Interesting, Roy. Are you suggesting that the "value" described in
paragraph 3 is the same as "business value" described in paragraph 4? If
so, I disagree. I think the first is value to the Project, while the
second is value to the Client...
I like the following thought experiments.
1. Do we really want our team working on the highest-value business
processes when they are brand new, and don't have their sh*t together?
2. How do technical dependencies play in this?
3. How do personnel dependencies play in this?
Just sayin' Dan ;-)
Dan Rawsthorne, PhD, CST
Senior Trainer/Coach, CollabNet
Roy Morien wrote:
> Prioritising the Product Backlog to reflect the sequence of activities
> in the business process seems logical, on the face of it ... but ...
> Are business processes always 'sequential', such that one sub-process
> is always used before another specific one, and after another specific
> one? I would suggest not. Are they 'sequential' in that many users can
> be using each or any 'sub-process' dependant on what any other user is
> doing at that time? Again, I would suggest not. There is always some
> degree of randomness about who is doing what while someone else is
> doing th same, or something else. There is no 'sequence' obvious in this.
> The purpose of prioritising the Product Backlog is to ensure that
> high-value processes are delivered first, so that all that remains to
> be done at ay one time is of lower, or low value.
> Having said that, if tracing a path through the usual way of doing
> things provides a good framework for deciding on business value, then
> why not do it that way. But always keeping in mind that just because
> someone wants a report after they have done something else does not
> raise that report to a high level of priority, necessarilly.
> Roy Morien
> To: firstname.lastname@example.org
> From: peterstev@...
> Date: Tue, 1 Jun 2010 05:48:39 +0200
> Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Prioritization of Stories in Business
> Productivity Automation
> Hi Tara,
> You have identified one way to think about the business process:
> Considering it as a sequence of steps to be executed one after the
> other. Is that the only way to think about it? Is it the best way?
> I once worked for a company which had a several processes to automate.
> The first such project I worked on, the program was conceived to
> implement its process step by step. This seemed logical at the time,
> but it made the software extremely difficult to test or change, and
> equally inflexible for the user.
> Later, I worked with two domain experts on the visioning of a similar
> project. We found that if we took an objected-oriented approach, the
> process became much simpler: The user would create a dossier, the
> former steps in the process became operations on the dossier, and a
> new 'make it so' operation (order) would complete the process. Once a
> dossier was created, it could be completed. The steps in the middle
> became optional (even though they remained important enough that most
> users in most cases would apply them). This made it possible for the
> P-O to prioritize the value of the operations, but also to add or
> remove alternatives in repesonse to changing priorities, time
> pressures, user/customer demands etc.
> For example: Most airline ticketing processes are sequential: 1) enter
> travel dates, number of passengers and departure and destination point
> 2) find flights 3) select flights 4) decide to order, 6) identify
> passengers 7) pay. What happens if your mother in law decides to join
> you on the trip? You have to start over.. Why not just add her to the
> dossier? Why do you have to reenter the passenger data every time you
> want to consider a new alternative?
> If you were going to apply the dossier approach to airline ticketing,
> how would you do it? Which functions would you implement first? Maybe
> create dossier, pay for flight. Once these are implemented, you can
> potentially generate revenue. Next might be select alternative flights
> by price or by schedule, add spouse and kids. Now the customers can
> easily book the flight they want and bring the whole family. Probably
> adding your mother-in-law after the rest of the family has already
> booked a ticket won't be top on your priority list, but you may decide
> it's important later (especially if she offers to babysit ;-) ). Of
> course, this function will be competing with 'book rental car' and
> hotel booking functions which might have more value...
> If you were going to apply this approach to your application, how
> would you do it? What advantages and disadvantages would you have? Why
> are the advantages more important (or why aren't they)?
> On 01.06.10 02:07, Tara Santmire wrote:
> Ron – Thanks for taking the time to reply.
> On business value – I think that the PO is taking the point of
> view that she does not want to deploy until the entire process is
> deployable and so there is no business value in partial process so
> just do it in order. Do you have any suggestions about how I
> might disabuse her of that notion? Or might she be correct? Even
> if she is wrong, if she is so engrained in thinking this through
> in terms of the process, might there be value in proceeding in
> this order?
> On risk – the team has reviewed the process and the associated
> user stories and their estimation of technical risk is that they
> are all in the same bin. The team feels that they have done
> something fairly similar, for the various pieces of the process.
> I can try and go back and elicit more granularity.
> On amount to learn – you may be right. I don’t have good ideas
> about how to elicit more information about prioritization in terms
> of “amount we need to learn”. Do you have suggestions? Even if
> you are correct, if the PO and users are so engrained in thinking
> this through in terms of the process, might there be value in
> proceeding in this order as this is the only way they can think
> through all the ramifications of decisions?
> Tara E. Santmire, CSM, PMP
> *From:* email@example.com
> [mailto:firstname.lastname@example.org] *On Behalf Of *Ron Jeffries
> *Sent:* Monday, May 31, 2010 7:07 PM
> *To:* email@example.com
> *Subject:* Re: [scrumdevelopment] Prioritization of Stories in
> Business Productivity Automation
> Hello, Tara. On Monday, May 31, 2010, at 8:23:52 AM, you wrote:
> > The product owner wants to prioritize these stories in the same
> > order that they occur in the business process. I don't see any
> > with this, but I have a nagging feeling that I am missing
> something. Does
> > this seem like a reasonable way of prioritizing the stories?
> Does it have
> > any potential drawbacks?
> It seems unlikely to me that the business value of the stories is
> decreasing with ordinal position in the business process. It seems
> unlikely to me that the risk of the stories decreases with ordinal
> position in the business process. It seems unlikely to me that the
> amount we need to learn decreases with ordinal position in the
> business process.
> Therefore it seems unlikely to me that priority is in same order as
> the position of the item in the business process.
> Ron Jeffries
> www.XProgramming <http://www.xprogramming/>.com
> www.xprogramming <http://www.xprogramming/>.com/blog
> You can observe a lot by watching. --Yogi Berra
> Peter Stevens, CSM, CSPO, CSP
> www.scrum-breakfast.com <http://www.scrum-breakfast..com/>
> tel: +41 44 586 6450
> Find it on Domain.com.au Need a new place to live?
> Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found.
> (Email Guard: 184.108.40.206, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15120)
- << Previous post in topic Next post in topic >>