Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

4323Re: !RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: agile vs Agile

Expand Messages
  • Ken Schwaber
    Sep 1, 2004
    • 0 Attachment
      I think our job is to keep the baby alive, help it grow, and watch it mature and have a life, a real life, of its own.
      Ken
      >
      > From: "Mike Beedle" <beedlem@...>
      > Date: 2004/08/31 Tue PM 02:27:08 CDT
      > To: <scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com>
      > Subject: !RE: [scrumdevelopment] RE: agile vs Agile
      >
      >
      > Ken/Daniel:
      >
      > Your postings reminded me of something I wrote a couple of years ago:
      >
      > "It troubles me that the _fundamental differences_ between traditional
      > and agile processes are not highlighted, either by the creators
      > and supporters of the Agile movement, or by traditional
      > software development figure-heads."
      > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AgileRevolution
      >
      >
      > " ...Agile Software Development will be in the 2000's what
      > Defined-Process Software Development was in the 1980's. Everyone
      > will be in favor of it. Every manufacturer will promote his
      > products as supporting it. Every manager will pay lip service
      > to it. Every programmer will practice it (differently).
      > And no one will know just what it is."
      > http://c2.com/cgi/wiki?AgileRentschianThinking
      >
      >
      > ..... unfortunately, "agile" is bound to go through that
      > irreversible cycle of commercialization that tends to evaporate
      > the meaning of valuable things as it has done with
      > "structured programming", "functional programming",
      > "object-oriented programming", "agent-technology", and now
      > "service-oriented architecture".
      >
      > Just like everything else that our industry has managed to
      > mangle, obfuscate, obscure, but simultaneously glamorize and
      > idolize, "agile development", like any other wave, will be
      > the prey of commercialization, opportunism, envy,
      > silver-bulleting, .... and the rest of the socio-economic
      > diseases of our time.
      >
      > Agile is dead, Long live Agile!
      >
      > - Mike
      >
      > (For some reason this discussion makes me think of the following poem
      > ;-)
      >
      > Could Be
      >
      > I only sang
      > because the lonely road was long;
      > and now the road and I are gone
      > but not the song.
      > I only spoke
      > the verse to pay for borrowed time
      > and now the clock and I are broken
      > but not the rhyme.
      > Possibly,
      > the self not being fundamental,
      > eternity
      > breathes only on the incidental.
      >
      > -- Ernesto Galarza (1905-1984)
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: Daniel Gackle [mailto:gackle@...]
      > Sent: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 12:10 PM
      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] RE: agile vs Agile
      >
      >
      > Ken,
      >
      > I agree. Reading those articles, I was astonished at how contentless
      > they are. It's impossible to figure out what they mean by "agile"
      > because, IMHO, they don't mean anything by it. A precise translation
      > might be "buzz buzz buzz".
      >
      > Perhaps this is an inevitable stage in the lifecycle of any movement
      > that reaches a certain mass. If so, we can expect this wave of
      > misunderstanding to continue. What matters is that enough of the core
      > value manage to survive it. The key place to preserve this value is in
      > our own individual and team practice.
      >
      > This relates to the conversation about "selling agile". The risk in
      > selling agile is that only the word will be bought and exchanged, not
      > the core. (For this we now have Exhibit A: CIO magazine.) This will make
      > some people some money, but it will not bring what many of us would most
      > like to see from Agile, which someone expressed to me recently as
      > "making software projects less soul-destroying".
      >
      > You can bottle the bathwater, but not the baby.
      >
      > - Daniel
      >
      >
      > ----- Original Message -----
      > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > Date: Tuesday, August 31, 2004 1:34 am
      > Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Digest Number 701
      >
      > There is a whole issue of CIO magazine devoted to "agile"
      > (http://www.cio.com/archive/081504/index.html). When we held the meeting
      > in Snowbird in 2001, Martin Fowler suggested that we name the thing
      > "quackenpoof" rather than "agile" to discourage other people from
      > cheaply using the name, as the have in this issue of CIO. "Oh, yes,
      > goodness sakes, we are doing much better in my "100 Most Agile"
      > organization... we now get the software out the door sometimes."
      >
      > I'd have been so much more pleased if one of these people had a clue
      > about Agile rather than just the word agile. So, remember that when you
      > discuss agile, if you are referring to the commercialization fad that
      > will fade in about two years, use the small "a" agile. When you are
      > referring to something that comforms to the Agile movement and the Agile
      > manifesto, use the capital "A" Agile.
      >
      > Scrum on,
      > Ken
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to:
      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor
      > ADVERTISEMENT
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      > To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scrumdevelopment/
      >
      > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com
      >
      > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@...
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment-unsubscribe@...
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
    • Show all 25 messages in this topic