342Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: RE: [XP] Scrum and XP
- May 15, 2002Hi Lowell,
I couldn't sell management on:
actually these were struggles for both management & developers.
You know, now that I think about what was going on at the time. I wasn't selling XP,
someone else was and maybe he was a bit too enthusiastic...memory fading here.
Gotta think about this some more...
I personally was selling Scrum and because of a set of lucky coincidences, I believe
I had learned how to sell new ideas. In fact, I'm writing a book of patterns about what
I did -- with my good friend, Mary Lynn Manns.
I gave a lot of talks locally about both XP and Scrum -- other companies and the
local ACM/IEEE/SPIN. Most seemed to be more interested in Scrum than XP
but, of course, I didn't work at all the places represented and usually never followed
up. The ones I did know about really never used either.
When I moved to Denmark for a year -- same thing -- gave a lot of talks -- most
people in Europe had heard of XP but no one knew anything about Scrum. Again,
they were interested but I'm not sure how many actually implemented either one.
I'm not feeling like I answered your question, Lowell!!!
Lowell Lindstrom wrote:
Linda and Ken -
Can you provide some more detail here? I have had no more trouble getting
business people engaged in XP than technical. In fact, often the technical
folks are more difficult given the emotion around pairing.
Linda, was it the business people that were the obstacle until you switched
from XP to Scrum or the developers? What did people like about Scrum? Did
the rocket of Scrum adoption lead to greater acceptance of the XP practices?
Ken, I would guess that you always lead with Scrum? Have you ever tried to
introduce XP only. I wouldn't expect so and I don't mean that as a
challenge. I am just interested in what you have experienced.
As I stated before, my point here is not to advocate XP over Scrum or vice
versa. I know one much better than the other, so that is my comfort zone,
that is where I can improvise with the greatest ease. I am mainly trying to
learn more about Scrum. I rea d the book to learn how Scrum could supplement
XP Planning for organizations that are scaling XP and dealing with multiple
team planning issues. It is still not clear to me why I would bring in
Scrum rather than simply take the couple of different practices and evolve
XP in that direction. I see teams doing this anyway who haven't even heard
Thanks for the dialog!
Object Mentor, Inc.
Agile Universe / XP Universe August 4-7, 2002
Beck, Boehm, Humphreys, Cockburn, Jeffries, Fowler talkin' Agile and XP!!!
From: Linda Rising <risingl@...>
Maybe that explains why I was never able to sell XP to our company but
Scrum took off like a rocket!
Ken Schwaber wrote:
The reason why we go through the extra effort to rationalize
the overlapping names between Scrum and XP is that Scrum terminology is
understood, more business natural. It fits with business project and
product managers. XP is more OO and engineering-centric and feels alien
this audience. It's our way to get agile used with XP engineering
practices. It eases the
implementation of XP and allows us to scale XP elsewhere in the
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