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342Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: RE: [XP] Scrum and XP

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  • Linda Rising
    May 15, 2002
      Hi Lowell,

      I couldn't sell management on:

      pair programming
      code ownership

      actually these were struggles for both management & developers.

      You know, now that I think about what was going on at the time. I wasn't selling XP,
      someone else was and maybe he was a bit too enthusiastic...memory fading here.
      Gotta think about this some more...

      I personally was selling Scrum and because of a set of lucky coincidences, I believe
      I had learned how to sell new ideas. In fact, I'm writing a book of patterns about what
      I did -- with my good friend, Mary Lynn Manns.

      I gave a lot of talks locally about both XP and Scrum -- other companies and the
      local ACM/IEEE/SPIN. Most seemed to be more interested in Scrum than XP
      but, of course, I didn't work at all the places represented and usually never followed
      up. The ones I did know about really never used either.

      When I moved to Denmark for a year -- same thing -- gave a lot of talks -- most
      people in Europe had heard of XP but no one knew anything about Scrum. Again,
      they were interested but I'm not sure how many actually implemented either one.

      I'm not feeling like I answered your question, Lowell!!!


      Lowell Lindstrom wrote:
      Linda and Ken -

      Can you provide some more detail here? I have had no more trouble getting
      business people engaged in XP than technical. In fact, often the technical
      folks are more difficult given the emotion around pairing.

      Linda, was it the business people that were the obstacle until you switched
      from XP to Scrum or the developers? What did people like about Scrum? Did
      the rocket of Scrum adoption lead to greater acceptance of the XP practices?

      Ken, I would guess that you always lead with Scrum? Have you ever tried to
      introduce XP only. I wouldn't expect so and I don't mean that as a
      challenge. I am just interested in what you have experienced.

      As I stated before, my point here is not to advocate XP over Scrum or vice
      versa. I know one much better than the other, so that is my comfort zone,
      that is where I can improvise with the greatest ease. I am mainly trying to
      learn more about Scrum. I rea d the book to learn how Scrum could supplement
      XP Planning for organizations that are scaling XP and dealing with multiple
      team planning issues. It is still not clear to me why I would bring in
      Scrum rather than simply take the couple of different practices and evolve
      XP in that direction. I see teams doing this anyway who haven't even heard
      of Scrum.

      Thanks for the dialog!


      Lowell Lindstrom
      Object Mentor, Inc.
      Agile Universe / XP Universe August 4-7, 2002
      Beck, Boehm, Humphreys, Cockburn, Jeffries, Fowler talkin' Agile and XP!!!

         From: Linda Rising <risingl@...>

      Maybe that explains why I was never able to sell XP to our company but
      Scrum took off like a rocket!

      Ken Schwaber wrote:

      The reason why we go through the extra effort to rationalize
      the overlapping names between Scrum and XP is that Scrum terminology is
      understood, more business natural. It fits with business project and 
      product managers. XP is more OO and engineering-centric and feels alien
      this audience. It's our way to get agile used with XP engineering
      practices. It eases the
      implementation of XP and allows us to scale XP elsewhere in the

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