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33840Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: What about this? I'm already dodging for cover !

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  • Simon Kirk
    Oct 27, 2008
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      Alistair, do you really think it's not too late for such a change?

      Cheers,
      Simon
      [|]

      On 27 Oct 2008, at 22:23, "aacockburn" <acockburn@...> wrote:

      > Well, tbe problem is that the course is to certify a person as having
      > learned the ScrumMaster role, but people use the course as a Scrum
      > Bootcamp course (and get a free certificate from it).
      >
      > If there had been a "Scrum Bootcamp" course, with a certificate that
      > produced "Certified Bootcampee", then that certificate or a promise
      > that the person already knew basic Scrum and was interested in
      > learning how to be a good SCrumMaster, would make great sense as
      > entry criteria for the CSM course.
      >
      > That would have been the sensible thing to do.
      >
      > What we have now is a really untenable situation where thousands of
      > people have CSM certificates without possibly even knowing basic
      > Scrum rules, the CSM course has become the defacto Scrum Bootcamp
      > course ... and I doubt that either future Scrum Bootcampees or the
      > CST Invested have interest in generating and holding a watered down
      > certificate called Scrum Bootcampee.
      >
      > However, frankly, that would solve the basic problem. Scrum
      > Bootcampees are a different breed than ScrumMasters, quite properly,
      > and have different needs to be satisfied by different courses. Tens
      > of thousands of people need the Scrum Bootcamp material, many
      > hundreds to a few thousands need the CSM material.
      >
      > It is not too late to make this change - the total number of Scrum
      > Bootcampees already taught is much much smaller than the number yet
      > to be taught.
      >
      > Alistair
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      >
      > --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, Angela Druckman
      > <angela.druckman@...> wrote:
      >>
      >> As much as we all get tired of seeing people doing strange things
      > and calling it Scrum -
      >>
      >> I think the Scrum community already sometimes has an elitist feel
      > to it from a newcomers point of view. I wouldn't want to scare more
      > people off by making it more so. I understand it is in the works to
      > have a more rigorous certification standard for CSM, and that is
      > great. But everyone has to start somewhere.
      >>
      >> Why not welcome anyone who wants to learn more, even if they
      > haven't a clue to start? People don't know what they don't know--why
      > punish them for that fact?
      >>
      >> --Angela
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >>
      >> ________________________________
      >> From: Ilja Preuß <iljapreuss@...>
      >> To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      >> Sent: Monday, October 27, 2008 8:22:36 AM
      >> Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] What about this? I'm already
      > dodging for cover !
      >>
      >>
      >> What if instead of a test, a position paper was required?
      >>
      >> Mhh, that might significantly screw with the number of attendees, of
      >> course. Not that I'd find that to be bad, but I'm sure there are
      >> people who would...
      >>
      >> Cheers, Ilja
      >>
      >> 2008/10/27 marjiecarmen <marjiecarmen@ comcast.net>:
      >>> What about a pre-requisite test before you even get to take the
      > CSM
      >>> class!!! ha!
      >>>
      >>> (Hey Tobias - how are you!)
      >>>
      >>> You must know the "essence" of SCRUM by answering these non-
      > multiple
      >>> choice questions a.k.a. situational or essay questions before you
      > take
      >>> the CSM class.
      >>>
      >>> I personally don't believe testing for SCRUM knowledge will work
      > but I
      >>> do recall when I took the class from Ken there were those who had
      >>> absolutely NO idea what he was talking about because they had no
      >>> experience nor had they read the book. They got little to no
      > value out
      >>> of it according to what they were saying after wards. Not my
      > personal
      >>> conclusion.
      >>>
      >>> I believe way back then it was suggested that you had some
      > experience
      >>> as well as having read the book front/back and sideways standing
      > on
      >>> your head!
      >>>
      >>> -Marjie Carmen
      >>> Boston
      >>>
      >>>
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      >>>
      >>>
      >>>
      >>
      >
      >
      >
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