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336Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: [XP] Scrum and XP

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  • Linda Rising
    May 15 10:02 AM
      We had some real Scrum enthusiasts who said: If you can't Scrum it, don't do it :-)!

      Ken Schwaber wrote:
      Scrum is for any development project (we even used it for marketing
      programs), including software development. XP is for software engineering.
      Scrum and XP work together great on software engineering projects, where
      neither work that well by themselves. Scrum is going to reengineer IT in
      organizations, from over the wall projects owned by IT, to projects owned by
      users that are staffed by responsible XP trained IT teams. XP is a subset of
      Scrum. XP@Scrum.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: andycirillo [mailto:acirillo@...]
      Sent: Wednesday, May 15, 2002 2:37 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [scrumdevelopment] Re: [XP] Scrum and XP

      I won't attempt to answer your question because I'm kind of wondering
      the same thing (except that my version is 'Isn't the XP planning game
      just a scaled-down version of Scrum?')

      I would like to make a few comments in support of Scrum however:

      1. Scrum is scalable. There are precedents for having Scrums of
      Scrums of Scrums, which is critical if you want to use agile methods
      across an organization, or on very large teams.

      2. I think the Scrum concept of a backlog is more sophisticated than
      anything on the XP side. The flow from Product Backlog to Version
      Backlog to Sprint Backlog gives you a nice clean way to manage a
      product roadmap without sacrificing flexibility.

      3. Scrum is something that professional managers can relate to.
      These guys don't care about continuous integration or unit testing.
      XP is largely outside of their world, which means that they will have
      a hard time relating to development. Scrum is something they can
      sink their teeth into, and it can act as a 'contract' between them
      and developm ent that both sides can understand.

      4. Like you said, Scrum can be an easier way to "go agile" than XP.
      If you're walking into an environment with no unit tests, no
      continuous integration and developers that break out in hives at the
      mention of pair programming, you can still implement Scrum fairly

      My impression is that both XP and Scrum have crude 'stubs' of each
      other built into them, which suggests that they were meant to be used
      together - which begs the question, "Is Scrum going to end up just
      being part of XP?"

      --- In scrumdevelopment@y..., Lowell Lindstrom <lindstrom@o...> wrote:
      I can't seem to find a substantial difference between the XP
      Planning Game
      and Scrum.  There are subtle differences, but if the team is
      adapting their
      work as they proceed, I can't see why I starting with one versus
      the other
      would have make any difference in the outcome of the project.

      I can see how Scrum would be a way to move towards XP in a "non-XP-
      environment or simply a way to be Agile, if I not using XP

      If I am in an "XP-friendly" environment, I would not want to
      things by introducing Scrum terminology for project management,
      which is
      largely redundant to the Planning Game.

      -----Original Message-----
      From: kschwaber [mailto:ken.schwaber@v...]
      Sent: Monday, May 13, 2002 2:00 PM
      To: extremeprogramming@y...
      Subject: [XP] Scrum and XP

      On May 12, Ron Jefferies wrote:

      What does Scrum seem to have that XP does not? It seems to me
      Scrum is a subset of XP.
      I used to think that XP was a subset of Scrum until I understood
      better. Then I understood that Scrum is a set of business and
      management practices, XP is a set of engineering practices. They
      use iterations, increments, emergence, self-organization, and
      collaboration, so I've been able to use each of them to make up
      what the other doesn't address.

      Ken Schwaber

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