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25620Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Product Owner as Scrum Coach

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  • Pierre Mengal
    Dec 4, 2007
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      Roy,
       
      While I really think you honestly believe in what you say, but it seems obvious to me that Agile is not for anyone in the world.
       
      At Scrum Gathering, I heard some really great discussions with guys from a big companies explaining me why Agile did not work in some countries. Because of cultural differences.
       
      They are not ALL "so wrong", I think, like you, that most of them are. This is the difference.
       
      Pierre
      On Dec 4, 2007 9:45 AM, Roy Morien <roymorien@...> wrote:

      There is absolutely nothing wrong with saying 'guys, you are so wrong' provided you are able to demonstrate how, where and why they are so wrong, and provide an alternative that is demonstrably correct.
       
      If we always tippy toed around trying not to hurt everybodies' feelings by saying nothing, then progress in thinking will never happen.

      Or you have the situation as I was in when a 'nice person' was telling me how, really, I was not wrong, just different, and everybody was entitled to their own opinion. So nice. But when I said, ok, if I am just different, why don't we do it my way for a change, after 10 years of doing it your way? Well, that was just a little too radical, and my suggestion was rejected.

      Regards,
      Roy Morien

      Date: Tue, 4 Dec 2007 09:22:56 +0100

      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Product Owner as Scrum Coach

      What make me stuck in Agile in general is that some look at waterfall geeks and say to themselves: "guys you don't know it yet,... you are so wrong...".
      Not a very nice attitude.

      On Dec 3, 2007 4:13 PM, Della-Croce, Greg <greg_della-croce@...> wrote:

      One of the first things that struck me about SCRUM and Agile is the statement that "Quality is not negotiable".  Maybe your PO needs to be reminded that if you don't test (Unit, System, and Acceptance) that all they are going to get is the best and worst guesses that your developer team can make, and that only leads to more "do over".  "Do over" are a bigger waste of time than testing!!
       

      Greg
       
      Ready   Fire   Aim
      Getting the Right  Job Done Right the Right Way in the Right Time
       
      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Pierre Mengal
      Sent: Monday, December 03, 2007 9:19 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: Product Owner as Scrum Coach

       
      I have a case where the PO want to drop all possible "tests" (because it is a waste for him), ask developers to do extra hours, etc... to meet the deadline. All classical mistakes.
       
      He has the same objective as the team: "deliver on time".
       
      However he is probably wrong on "how to deliver on time".
       
      This is two different things for me.
       
      Pierre

       
      On Dec 3, 2007 2:50 PM, Emiliano Heyns <Emiliano.Heyns@...> wrote:

      On Nov 30, 2007 3:12 PM, Pierre Mengal <pierre@...> wrote:

      Conflict of interest ? All the actors are not supposed to have the same interest ? The success of the project ?


      The sole interest cannot be "the success of the project" if the implied undercurrent is "at any cost the PO will not personally feel". The Scrum Master might have to instill a sense of reality in the PO. If the PO is driving the team to a non-sustainable pace, and the team doesn't pick up on this (and it's easy to lose track of this if you're in the middle of it all), the SM must intervene.

      So yes, it can be a conflict of interest. In the example above, the project interest conflicts with the company interest (there's little value in burnt-out employees).

      Emile

       

       







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