Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

22759RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum "D" and Lean

Expand Messages
  • Ken Schwaber
    Jul 31, 2007
    • 0 Attachment

      The ScrumMaster can get everyone to participate by making sure that the people most likely to object see the increments of functionality as they are built. Then let the objections fly.


      From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com [mailto: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Roy Morien
      Sent: Tuesday, July 31, 2007 7:37 AM
      To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum "D" and Lean


      Well, it seems to me that using Scrum ... or more to the point, using an iterative development approach, proved remarkably successful. After only 3 iterations, it is discovered that the potential users hate it. Isn't that far and away a better time to discover this unfortunate situation, than maybe after 2 years development.
      In my opinion, the first failure here was to wait for 3 iterations before showing the potential users anything. This should have been done after the first iteration. In that first iteration, something should have been developed that could be shown to the users for their judgement. This has the potential to achieve many good outcomes. First, the users have the earliest opportunity to see the GUI interface, so far. Second, the user has the ability to actually use the software delivered; a small thing at this point, but it is an opportunity to create confidence in the development team's ability, to give the users confidence that even at this early point their requirements appear to be being met etc. There is almost a political agenda here.

      Clearly the wrong people were being asked about the requirements. But then , that can happen regardless of which development approach is followed.
      But it does demonstrate a very real problem that Scrum or any other agile approach does not have a ready solution to. How do you get to know the needs of a possibly large, diverse and widely distributed group of users? I had the experience of developing in an agile, iterative, highly collaborative manner, with apparently great success. Then I was asked to travel 350 miles away to visit another group of users who I did not even know existed, to demonstrate the software to them. I immediately realised that this remote group had been totally disenfranchised from the development process, even though I had done everything possible to include and involve "the users" in the development. In this situation, I quickly realised that having a "testing environment' available to everyone on the organisation network was essential, and everyone should have access to the delivered components. One excellent outcome of this is that the ease of use of the software can be readily judged; if the remote users find it difficult to use, without expert guidance and training, then perhaps the interface is too complex and insufficiently intuitive.
      So, Deliver Early, Deliver Often, Deliver Comprehensively could be a good motto. AND also make sure that youare asking the right people.
      Roy Morien

      > To: scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
      > From: basv@...
      > Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2007 14:15:45 +0800
      > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] Scrum "D" and Lean
      > Why you didn't make the customer the product owner?
      > Bas
      > Robin Dymond wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > So, there was this project. We used scrum. We used a new COTS tool.
      > > started the work based on our expert product owner's direction. We
      > > demonstrated the software to our product owner, she was OK with it.
      > > After 3 iterations we piloted it with customers, and they hated it.
      > > was the first big clue we did not take. The business stakeholders
      > > decided to change the product owner, and so she became a key
      > > stakeholder, and the visonary became the product owner. But the
      > > visionary didn't want to show any more software to the customers
      > > it was just right, and the COTS tool's much anticipated config
      > > were completed and shipped by the vendor. So we no longer showed
      > > features to the customers, only the visionary, who did not know the
      > > work. In the spring the project was cancelled. The project was replaced
      > > by a Lean process redesign and implementation initiative. This Lean
      > > process redesign effort has been very successful so far. It is fixing
      > > problems that were out of reach of the team, and the product owners.
      > > is addressing the ROOT CAUSE of the problems in the business area.
      > > COTS vaporware arrived too late, but more importantly, the
      > > implementation was based on a faulty premise, that the product owner
      > > would and could know what to do. The team spent hundreds of hours
      > > automating a business process that was full of hand-offs, waiting,
      > > production, highly manual, etc.
      > >
      > > To me this is a vivid personal experience of how Agile methods can
      > > really fail to deliver what the business needed. IT set out to solve
      > > wrong problem, and the smart, engaged business leaders did not know
      > > enough to recognize that. If you are doing enterprise software for
      > > business automation, then Lean is just as important as Scrum to
      > > you have the right processes, the right backlog and the right
      > > agenda for technology to accelerate.
      > >
      > > Regards,
      > > Robin Dymond.
      > > www.innovel. net <http://www.innovel. net>
      > >
      > > On 7/30/07, *Ken Schwaber* < ken.schwaber@ verizon.net
      > > <mailto:ken.schwaber @verizon. net>> wrote:
      > >
      > > Scrum is a very simple process for managing complex work. It has
      > > many areas in which it is quiet, such as engineering practices,
      > > planning and estimating approaches, risk management, and others
      > > because these are situational, dependent on who is using Scrum when.
      > > People will fill in these blanks and come up with a process or
      > > approach that helps them accomplish their results best, keeping in
      > > mind that Scrum will keep pointing out when they are deficient so
      > > they can continually improve their concocted process. To say there
      > > is a Scrum "A", "B", "C" or otherwise
      is to say that there are
      > > multiple foundations on which to build, when the base Scrum –
      > > described in the literature – is more than adequate. I believe that
      > > thinking this way will help us avoid the babble of OO in its early
      > > years, and also people who "modify" Scrum to remove its
      > > important elements.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > As for the connection between Lean and Scrum: you and others know
      > > lean. You look at Scrum and you can see lean in it. You use lean
      > > words and thinking to describe what you see. Great. However, Scrum
      > > isn't based on lean, it just exemplifies some of it as you see it.
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > Ken
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > ------------ --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- ------
      > >
      > > *From:* scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
      > > <mailto: scrumdevelop ment@yahoogroups .com >
      > > [mailto: scrumdevelo pment@yahoogroup s.com
      > > <mailto: scrumdevelop ment@yahoogroups .com >]
      *On Behalf Of *Alan Shalloway
      > > *Sent:* Monday, July 30, 2007 1:47 PM
      > > *To:* scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
      > > <mailto: scrumdevelop ment@yahoogroups .com >
      > > *Subject:* [scrumdevelopment] Re: Scrum Evolution: Type A, B, and C
      > > Sprints
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > > --- In scrumdevelopment@ yahoogroups. com
      > > <mailto:scrumdevelop ment%40yahoogrou ps.com>,
      "Ken Schwaber"
      > > <ken.schwaber@ ...> wrote:
      > > >
      > > > There is only one Scrum,
      > >
      > > Ken:
      > > I am not sure how to interpret this. Are you saying that it is all
      > > Scrum regardless of where it is applying or that there is only one
      > > Scrum as defined by some person or body. Please explain more fully.
      > > Thanks,
      > >
      > > Alan Shalloway
      > > CEO, Net Objectives
      > > Gold Sponsor Agile 2007
      > >
      > >
      > >
      > To Post a message, send it to: scrumdevelopment@ eGroups.com
      > To Unsubscribe, send a blank message to: scrumdevelopment- unsubscribe@ eGroups.com
      > Yahoo! Groups Links
      > <*> To visit your group on the web, go to:
      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/scrumdevel opment/
      > <*> Your email settings:
      > Individual Email | Traditional
      > <*> To change settings online go to:
      > http://groups. yahoo.com/ group/scrumdevel opment/join
      > (Yahoo! ID required)
      > <*> To change settings via email:
      > mailto:scrumdevelop ment-digest@ yahoogroups. com
      > mailto:scrumdevelop ment-fullfeature d@yahoogroups. com
      > <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:
      > scrumdevelopment- unsubscribe@ yahoogroups. com
      > <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:
      > http://docs. yahoo.com/ info/terms/

      Explore the seven wonders of the world Learn more!

    • Show all 11 messages in this topic