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11078Re: [scrumdevelopment] Re: ScrumMaster same as development manager?

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  • Boris Gloger
    Jan 6, 2006
      Hi Tamara,

      I assume that this email is outdated but siting in an airplane is sometimes boring :)

      On 05.01.2006, at 19:45, Tamara Sulaiman wrote:

      Oh, wait, there’s a general consensus that the project manager should not be the scrum master? 

      I do not believe that this is a general consensus. i can only say that the project manager should not be the Scrum Master --- and given by your definition, regardless if this is the right definition: You proofed that by yourself:

       Project Manager:  Responsible for budgets, reporting metrics, and command and control type areas.

      No -- that is the misleaded interpretation of everybody and starts always unnecessary discussions if a good project manager would be a good Scrum Master. 

      Scrum says that the Product Owner is 

      a) responsible for budgets & ROI - he drives the project from a business point of view
      b) He is in charge of aligning the organization to the project an vice versa. 
      c) He works with the team to get the results the organization wants to have

      btw - he can be absolutely comand and control driven. Would be a nice discussion what will happens if you have a comand and control product owner. Anyway, this would have been no impact because you do have a Scrum master who protects the team and makes sure that the Product Owner gets the information he needs.

      This role may or may not be needed for a scrum team depending on the environment, customer, etc.

      this role is essential - an I hope you get now that the Project Manager must become the Product Owner and Not the SCRUM master in case he is like you described above. 

      This role can easily be combined with the scrum master role, when team members do not report directly to the PM, for budget and schedule reporting responsibilities.

      And that is something that is abolutely nonsense - why do we have a legislature, a executive and a jurisdicative? We need someone who makes the rules: The product owner, who executes: the team and someone who controls both: the Scrum Master. And you do very well in not combining them into one person. 

      (Note: this is particularly applicable to ‘matrixed’ corporate environments.)  Yes, there is overlap in the PM role with the impediment removing, and external communication responsibilities with a scrum master role.  Every scrum project that I’ve been on had a scrum/project manager (that person wasn’t always me!

      I know this kind of set up, but why can you not be the Scrum Master for another team, and the product owner for your team? 

      We have set up our whole organization - I am part of the first line management or co-founder, in the way that I am the Product Owner and Scrum Coach for company but I installed a Scrum master ,my One Second liner, who will install the processes and I have one Product Owner, my second second liner: she will run the project that we get from outside as product owner. And every team gets his own Scrum Master coached by my seond liner.

      So I try to live that we do not get shared responsibilities within one person, but everybody has multiple roles.

      Development Manager = Resource Manager – team members report to this person.  IMHO, this is a no-no combing this role with the scrum master role. Defeats the purpose of having self organizing teams.

      Well, he coud become a scrum master, because he needs to make sure that he will have the resources available for the team. But he does not manage this team or the resources. But he would be the person with the right skills for a scrum master, right?

      Product Manger = can easily be a product owner. Team does not report directly to the product manager.  I’m neutral on the aspect of combining the scrum master with product manager role. Has anyone tried combining both the product downer and scrum master roles?  (this is different than having a scrum master assist the product owner with managing the product backlog....)


      Again we are in the conflicting roles. Do not do that. And yes a product manager would be the right product owner if he is inside the company. 

      Engineering Manager = Resource Manager.  Team members report directly to this person.  Please see above under development manager for my opinion on combining this role with scrum master role!


      Cancel that role or make a Scrum Master from him.

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