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10404Re: (unknown)

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  • woynam
    Dec 1 7:34 AM
      I will keep repeating this until the day I die.

      They are *not* XP engineering practices.

      The practices existed before XP, were used by many of us who were not
      "doing" XP (but were doing agile or pre-agile), and can be used
      independently of XP.

      XP recognized the existing best practices, relalized that one would
      gain the most by utilizing them as a full set of complimentary
      practices, and developed the best marketing department. :-)

      Mark


      --- In scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com, "Dymond, Robin"
      <robin.dymond@c...> wrote:
      >
      > To further muddy the waters....
      >
      > I think software development teams need both Scrum and XP, and Theory of
      > Constraints, and Lean Thinking, and....
      >
      > Software development methods that are adaptive instead of prescriptive
      > are still new, and are just beginning to gain visibility (let alone
      > implementation) in large organizations. There is much left to do in this
      > space, and some smart insightful people have figured out some very
      > effective ideas, setting beacons in the fog for the rest of us. However
      > we still have a long ways to go before we can say we have a complete
      > body of knowledge.
      >
      > From my perspective, XP is the most advanced of the Agile methods in
      > terms of its practices. It is also the hardest to adopt because of all
      > the personal and organization behaviors that need to change. Scrum is
      > only organizational, and therefore is a little easier for transitioning
      > teams. Scrum also is complementary to XP software engineering practices,
      > these can be adopted over time as the team modifies their skills and
      > behaviors.
      >
      > Introducing XP engineering practices without Agile management practice,
      > either scrum or XP, usually has negative consequences, as it adds more
      > work to a team, without providing either motivation or recognition of
      > the value of the change. The teams will usually reject the practices,
      > and say XP doesn't work for them.
      >
      > If you fix the inputs to the team - the prioritized backlog, iterations,
      > delivering value, then you have an environment to introduce the
      > downstream processes such as TDD.
      >
      > Cheers,
      > Robin Dymond
      > Conclusive Consulting, Inc.
      >
      > -----Original Message-----
      > From: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > [mailto:scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Hodgetts
      > Sent: Wednesday, November 30, 2005 1:42 PM
      > To: scrumdevelopment@yahoogroups.com
      > Subject: Re: [scrumdevelopment] (unknown)
      >
      >
      > Ashraf Al Shafaki wrote:
      >
      > > With the growing popularity of XP, Scurm has repositioned
      > > itself now more towards the project management aspects of
      > > software development projects in order to fit itself in the >
      > technosphere as a complement to XP rather than a competitor > to it.
      >
      > I'm kinda curious how you came about making that statement?
      >
      > I was just at the recent Scrum Gathering in Boulder, where around 50
      > ScrumMasters, Scrum Practitioners, and Scrum Trainers got together with
      > Ken Schwaber, Jeff Sutherland, and many other Scrum thought leaders.
      >
      > I don't recall anyone talking about repositioning Scrum "more towards
      > the project management aspects of software development projects." In
      > fact I saw quite the opposite -- there was work around a wide variety of
      > all aspects of software development, from product management, to
      > organizational culture, to supporting Scrum through coaching and
      > consulting, and yes, even to technical practices.
      >
      > In fact, I heard *more* talk about technical practices this year than in
      > previous years, probably spurred on by Jeff Sutherland's reports of his
      > experiences with "Type C" Scrums, and how they require a lot attention
      > to good, continuous testing, integration, builds and release practices.
      >
      > Scrum and XP will always be "competitors" in the sense that each is a
      > specific collection of practices and strategies as a starting point.
      > But each is also intended to be an adaptive process, and XP practices
      > often fit well with Scrum practices, and vice versa. Scrum is less
      > inclusive and prescriptive in its practices, specifically engineering
      > practices, than XP, but I don't think that implies they are not intended
      > to be part of Scrum (or an implementation of Scrum).
      >
      > I think project management is a hot topic in the entire agile community
      > right now, as agile continues to expand to address more areas of
      > development and the development life cycle. So I think we see a lot of
      > project management-related postings on the list, but I'm not seeing that
      > as some sort of shift in emphasis in Scrum or a specialization on just
      > that aspect of development. At least not with the practitioners I meet.
      >
      > Regards,
      > Paul
      > -----
      > Paul Hodgetts -- CEO, Coach, Trainer, Consultant
      > Agile Logic -- www.agilelogic.com
      > Training, Coaching, Consulting -- Agile Processes/Scrum/Lean/XP Complete
      > solutions for adopting agile processes, Scrum and XP.
      >
      >
      >
      >
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