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[Scouter_T] Digest Number 1854lNeil/Trish.Den Chief

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  • Olan Watkins
    Don Back in the dark ages when I was a Webelos leader and had a Den Chief from a Troop the idea was that the Den Chief would try to get the Webelos to move
    Message 1 of 27 , Aug 14, 2008
      Don

      Back in the dark ages when I was a Webelos leader and had a Den Chief from
      a Troop the idea was that the Den Chief would try to get the Webelos to
      move into the Troop as a group and the Den Chief would be their Patrol
      Leader for their first six months to a year.

      In general, the Den Chief position was a young Scout and their first
      leadership position and only a year or two years older than the Webelos.

      Today, if I were a Webelos Leader and had a young lady Venturing member as
      a Den Chief, I guess that I would require that she attend a Den Chief
      training and perhaps even at least the fast start training for Scouts and
      Cubs so that she would understand the Cub and Boy Scout programs.

      Since the young lady would not be a member of a Troop, she could not push
      for moving into any one Troop, but perhaps that might be a good thing.

      I could see it being a possible problem for over night den campouts,
      Webelos Summer Camps, perhaps even for all day den trips to zoos or other
      places for visits.

      Perhaps some one with experience with having a Venturing Den Chief will
      speak up and let us know how it is working out.

      Olan Watkins
    • maria@inkspot.net
      I think I feel the same way, about female den chiefs as I do female Scout Masters. Beggers can t be choosers. If you live in an area with enough boys and men
      Message 2 of 27 , Aug 14, 2008
        I think I feel the same way, about female den chiefs as I do female
        Scout Masters. Beggers can't be choosers.

        If you live in an area with enough boys and men to do the job -
        great. But if you don't and a woman or a girl will step up to help
        make the program, as long as they are following the program, I don't
        have a problem with it.

        M Hurley


        > I'm just amazed that some areas have such a wealth to choose from. There may
        > be a "perfect" profile for a den chief, but around here it's either take the
        > one who has an interest and can make the schedule work, or do without.
        >
        > Teresa Hall
      • Lisa
        What problems would there be that we wouldn t have with a female den leader? ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 27 , Aug 14, 2008
          What problems would there be that we wouldn't have with a female den leader?



          Olan Watkins wrote:
          > I could see it being a possible problem for over night den campouts,
          > Webelos Summer Camps, perhaps even for all day den trips to zoos or other
          > places for visits.
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Olan Watkins
          As someone said, in general Den Chiefs are not in super supply, so you pretty much have to take what you can get. Being a Den Chief is not the most popular
          Message 4 of 27 , Aug 15, 2008
            As someone said, in general Den Chiefs are not in super supply, so you
            pretty much have to take what you can get. Being a Den Chief is not the
            most popular leadership job in a Troop and not too many kids will take the
            job.

            A good Den Chief can be worth their weight in gold, or they can just be
            another kid in the den for the leader to look after.

            I have been on both sides of the fence, as a Webelos Den Leader with a Den
            Chief and as a Scout Master trying to get kids to take on the job of Den
            Chief.

            Having a Den Chief with a Webelos Den can be the most effective recruiting
            method that a Troop can have, so it is to the Troops advantage to supply as
            good a Scout as is possible to have.

            When I was a Webelos leader, I had a very good Den Chief that set a very
            good example of how Scouts should act and was a good role model. He acted
            pretty much the same as a Patrol Leader. We did quite a bit of camping and
            activities and he did a good job of teaching them how to cook, pitch tents,
            and so on such that when we moved into the Troop they were able to hit the
            ground running as Boy Scouts.

            I guess it would be possible to have a Den Chief with Bear and Wolf Dens,
            but I don't think I have ever know of one.

            As some one said with a female den leader, having a female Venturing Den
            Chief should not be a problem for over night campouts.

            Olan Watkins
          • Kevin Pate
            ... Rightly or wrongly, our society and our organization are fine with two or three moms taking some Webelos and a male den chief to the woods, but the fine
            Message 5 of 27 , Aug 15, 2008
              > What problems would there be that we wouldn't have with a female
              > den leader?

              Rightly or wrongly, our society and our organization are fine with two or three moms taking some Webelos and a male den chief to the woods, but the fine vanishes rapidly when it is two or three dads taking some Webelos and a female Venturer to the woods.
            • maria@inkspot.net
              My understanding is that if there is a female Venturer, than there has to be a female leader, if overnights are involved. I maybe wrong, but I believe that s
              Message 6 of 27 , Aug 15, 2008
                My understanding is that if there is a female Venturer, than there
                has to be a female leader, if overnights are involved. I maybe wrong,
                but I believe that's why our council is doing such a push to get
                woman involved in Venturing.

                I know groups have had to nearly cancel trips until they got a
                trained woman to join them.

                M Hurley
              • NeilLup@aol.com
                ... I believe that, per G2SS, if there is a female Venturer as a Den Chief, there would need to be both male and female adult leadership for the event. I
                Message 7 of 27 , Aug 15, 2008
                  In a message dated 8/15/08 12:55:47 PM, kevinpate@... writes:


                  > Rightly or wrongly, our society and our organization are fine with two or
                  > three moms taking some Webelos and a male den chief to the woods, but the fine
                  > vanishes rapidly when it is two or three dads taking some Webelos and a
                  > female Venturer to the woods
                  >

                  I believe that, per G2SS, if there is a female Venturer as a Den Chief,
                  there would need to be both male and female adult leadership for the event.
                  I would suggest that a female Venturer and male Cub Scouts would make it a
                  "coed" event.

                  That's not a "problem" it's complying with the guidelines.

                  And I have heard it asked whether is becomes a coed event if there are female
                  adults on a Boy Scout or Cub Scout outing meaning that there would need to be
                  a male adult present too. Not discussing whether it's a good idea or not
                  (it is) but whether it is required by G2SS.


                  Best wishes,

                  Neil Lupton


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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Ben
                  This is a topic that recently came up for the various units I m involved with. I m a Cubmaster for a small pack that usually feeds into a pretty large troop
                  Message 8 of 27 , Aug 15, 2008
                    This is a topic that recently came up for the various units I'm
                    involved with.

                    I'm a Cubmaster for a small pack that usually feeds into a pretty
                    large troop nearby. We utilized a den chief for the first time last
                    year with our Webelos I den. It worked out extremely well.

                    This year, I put in a request to the troop for den chiefs for our
                    Webelos II, Webelos I and Bear dens. All of the boys from the troop
                    will have to be interviewed by the Cub committee before they assume
                    their positions.

                    I also submitted a request to our local crew for Den chiefs for our
                    Wolf and Tiger dens asnd got two female Crew members who
                    volunteered.
                    They will go through the same process as the boys from the troop.

                    Now, in my mind, that's great because I have older scouts who will
                    be able to help out the junior den leaders corral those rowdy Tigers
                    and Wolves. And I've got Boy scouts from the troop who will provide
                    that role model and bridge for the boys who are getting ready to
                    transition over to the Troops. Plus, having Venturing females in
                    uniform at Pack and district events gives the added bonus of
                    promoting Venturing throughout the community.

                    Bottom line is having female youth in leadership positions is a win-
                    win.

                    Starting next month, I'll have den chiefs for each of my dens as
                    well as a "Pack" den chief. "Wait? A what?" you might say.

                    Due to the largeness of our local troop, they have few opportunities
                    for leadership positions for the youth other than the usual. After
                    working with the local scoutmaster, (and a comment during a training
                    session at summer camp) we implemented the idea of having
                    an expierenced den chief serve as a "Pack" chief. Basically, He's
                    the "head" den chief. He'll help out at Pack meetings, fill in for
                    den chiefs when the assigned ones can't make a meeting due to
                    unforseen circumstance or schedule conflicts, he'll also offer
                    advice and leadership to the first year den chiefs as well as
                    checking to make sure they are fulfilling the requirements of the
                    position.

                    Myself and the scoutmaster think it will work out pretty well.
                    Either way, with the Pack chief and the female den chiefs, it'll be
                    a fun year!

                    YiS&V
                    Ben K.

                    Cubmaster - Pack 578
                    MB Counselor - Troop 1717
                    Advisor - Crew 1717
                    I used to be an Antelope....
                  • Lady T
                    Wow!  I m AWESTRUCK! Wish we could get this much participation/involvement in our area! Trish ... From: Ben To:
                    Message 9 of 27 , Aug 15, 2008
                      Wow!  I'm AWESTRUCK!
                      Wish we could get this much participation/involvement in our area!
                      Trish



                      ----- Original Message ----
                      From: Ben <benjamin.klinefelter@...>
                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      Sent: Friday, August 15, 2008 12:12:31 PM
                      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Digest Number 1854lNeil/Trish.Den Chief


                      This is a topic that recently came up for the various units I'm
                      involved with.

                      I'm a Cubmaster for a small pack that usually feeds into a pretty
                      large troop nearby. We utilized a den chief for the first time last
                      year with our Webelos I den. It worked out extremely well.

                      This year, I put in a request to the troop for den chiefs for our
                      Webelos II, Webelos I and Bear dens. All of the boys from the troop
                      will have to be interviewed by the Cub committee before they assume
                      their positions.

                      I also submitted a request to our local crew for Den chiefs for our
                      Wolf and Tiger dens asnd got two female Crew members who
                      volunteered.
                      They will go through the same process as the boys from the troop.

                      Now, in my mind, that's great because I have older scouts who will
                      be able to help out the junior den leaders corral those rowdy Tigers
                      and Wolves. And I've got Boy scouts from the troop who will provide
                      that role model and bridge for the boys who are getting ready to
                      transition over to the Troops. Plus, having Venturing females in
                      uniform at Pack and district events gives the added bonus of
                      promoting Venturing throughout the community.

                      Bottom line is having female youth in leadership positions is a win-
                      win.

                      Starting next month, I'll have den chiefs for each of my dens as
                      well as a "Pack" den chief. "Wait? A what?" you might say.

                      Due to the largeness of our local troop, they have few opportunities
                      for leadership positions for the youth other than the usual. After
                      working with the local scoutmaster, (and a comment during a training
                      session at summer camp) we implemented the idea of having
                      an expierenced den chief serve as a "Pack" chief. Basically, He's
                      the "head" den chief. He'll help out at Pack meetings, fill in for
                      den chiefs when the assigned ones can't make a meeting due to
                      unforseen circumstance or schedule conflicts, he'll also offer
                      advice and leadership to the first year den chiefs as well as
                      checking to make sure they are fulfilling the requirements of the
                      position.

                      Myself and the scoutmaster think it will work out pretty well.
                      Either way, with the Pack chief and the female den chiefs, it'll be
                      a fun year!

                      YiS&V
                      Ben K.

                      Cubmaster - Pack 578
                      MB Counselor - Troop 1717
                      Advisor - Crew 1717
                      I used to be an Antelope....






                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • ed5870@aol.com
                      In a message dated 8/15/2008 10:59:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, maria@inkspot.net writes: If you live in an area with enough boys and men to do the job -
                      Message 10 of 27 , Aug 16, 2008
                        In a message dated 8/15/2008 10:59:51 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                        maria@... writes:

                        If you live in an area with enough boys and men to do the job -
                        great. But if you don't and a woman or a girl will step up to help
                        make the program, as long as they are following the program, I don't
                        have a problem with it.



                        I have known many great female leaders. I think female or male it doesn't
                        matter as long as the leader is trained and follows the program. No begging
                        about it.

                        Ed Harvey
                        Training Chair Dutchess District
                        Every Cub Scout deserves a Trained Leader
                        THE HEART OF SCOUTING IS TRAINING
                        Hudson Valley Council
                        I used to be an Antelope



                        **************Looking for a car that's sporty, fun and fits in your budget?
                        Read reviews on AOL Autos.
                        (http://autos.aol.com/cars-Volkswagen-Jetta-2009/expert-review?ncid=aolaut00030000000007 )


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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