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Re: BALOO vs OLS-WL vs IOLS

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  • Ken
    Fred is absolutely right, we should present the material as it is intended. I see nothing wrong holding multiple courses at the same location to combine the
    Message 1 of 13 , May 12, 2008
      Fred is absolutely right, we should present the material as it is
      intended. I see nothing wrong holding multiple courses at the same
      location to combine the admin side, and sharing the trainers. We
      agree that the actual instruction should be separate, except where the
      OLSWL syllabus suggests combining with IOLS. The instructors should
      make separate presentations accordingly to match each syllabus.

      There are basic skills taught while preparing lunch, or during the
      Round Robin, but they are more Show, and not Do, due to the amount of
      time alloted. For the respondent who was concerned about this,
      Roundtable, Pow Wow, and University of Scouting can help. Another
      thing to try is a Show & Do event geared specifically at teaching and
      practicing outdoor skills, if there is a need.

      We (me included) some times get so wrapped up in offering the basic
      classes, that we forget to look at the needs of our leaders, and
      create opportunities to fill those needs. The Wood Badgers in NCAC
      have started putting on such an event at our Cub Scout camp. They
      have a reunion and have fun, leaders learn new things :)

      Also, the Commissioner Corps should be visiting each unit
      periodically. If they see a Pack preparing for a campout, and not
      having the experience level, they can find some experienced leaders to
      help them out the first time or two. Try to find a Troop who could
      send some Boy Scouts over to show some skills. This is a great
      experience for both Pack Leaders and Boy Scouts.

      When I was the Council Cub Scout Training Chair, I heard a number of
      complaints about the CSLBT syllabus when it came out. My response
      was, this is why we ask experienced leaders to be on our training
      staffs. Within the objectives, and basic structure, we add our
      experience into how we present the material to make it more meaningful
      to the leader, as opposed to simply reading out of the book. This is
      done without adding objectives, or straying from the syllabus.

      I am anxious to see the new syllabi coming out this Spring. Have a
      great week.
      Ken


      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Fred Goodwin, CMA" <fgoodwin@...>
      wrote:
      >
      > The BALOO syllabus specifically states it is not to be combined with
      > other courses, so while I understand the motivation to combine
      teachers & resources ... those who do so should understand you are
      doing exactly what the syllabus says *not* to do....
    • Brant Lippincott
      I respectfully disagree on a point here.... The original BALOO sylabus was created when the OWL course was generally not being taught.  At that time, the only
      Message 2 of 13 , Jun 9, 2008
        I respectfully disagree on a point here....
        The original BALOO sylabus was created when the OWL course was generally not being taught.  At that time, the only thing that anyone MIGHT even think of trying to combine would be IOLS.
        I think that if you review the material presented in the BALOO and OWL courses you wil find that there is a great deal of overlap on the "skills" sections:  tents, campsite selection, stoves, lanters, fires, food prep, etc.  I see NO reason why these cannot be combined sessions with the BALOO & OWL people both present. 
        The sections dealing with what you do on a campout are quite different.  For example, the Webelos activity badges are not of interest to the BALOO people and "Large Group Games" would not be of interest to the Webelos leaders.
        We've been running the course this way for several years now and find that it works really well.
        Personally, I think the syllabus comes well short when it talks about combining with IOLS.  For example, there is a section on "Fire Site Preparation & Building".  The syllabus has 20 minutes combined and another 20 minutes for just the Webelos Leaders.  It makes NO mention of what parts to cover together and what to cover for the Webelos Leaders.  I can't fathom what you would spend an extra 20 minutes on with the Webelos Leaders.
        Just MY thoughts... YMMV
        For the Boys,
        Brant Lippincott
        Cub Training Chair
        Great Plains District


        ----- Original Message ----
        From: Ken <krtodd@...>
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:40:17 PM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO vs OLS-WL vs IOLS

        Fred is absolutely right, we should present the material as it is
        intended.  I see nothing wrong holding multiple courses at the same
        location to combine the admin side, and sharing the trainers.  We
        agree that the actual instruction should be separate, except where the
        OLSWL syllabus suggests combining with IOLS.  The instructors should
        make separate presentations accordingly to match each syllabus.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • ed5870@aol.com
        I strongly disagree I run both courses and the intent and teaching is miles apart. National specifically forbids it and if you want to give your leaders a good
        Message 3 of 13 , Jun 9, 2008
          I strongly disagree I run both courses and the intent and teaching is miles
          apart. National specifically forbids it and if you want to give your leaders a
          good balanced program do not combine them.


          In a message dated 6/9/2008 5:02:40 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
          brant@... writes:




          I respectfully disagree on a point here....
          The original BALOO sylabus was created when the OWL course was generally not
          being taught. At that time, the only thing that anyone MIGHT even think of
          trying to combine would be IOLS.
          I think that if you review the material presented in the BALOO and OWL
          courses you wil find that there is a great deal of overlap on the "skills"
          sections: tents, campsite selection, stoves, lanters, fires, food prep, etc. I see
          NO reason why these cannot be combined sessions with the BALOO & OWL people
          both present.
          The sections dealing with what you do on a campout are quite different. For
          example, the Webelos activity badges are not of interest to the BALOO people
          and "Large Group Games" would not be of interest to the Webelos leaders.
          We've been running the course this way for several years now and find that
          it works really well.
          Personally, I think the syllabus comes well short when it talks about
          combining with IOLS. For example, there is a section on "Fire Site Preparation &
          Building". The syllabus has 20 minutes combined and another 20 minutes for
          just the Webelos Leaders. It makes NO mention of what parts to cover together
          and what to cover for the Webelos Leaders. I can't fathom what you would
          spend an extra 20 minutes on with the Webelos Leaders.
          Just MY thoughts... YMMV
          For the Boys,
          Brant Lippincott
          Cub Training Chair
          Great Plains District

          ----- Original Message ----
          From: Ken <_krtodd@..._ (mailto:krtodd@...) >
          To: _scouter_t@yahoogrouscoute_ (mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com)
          Sent: Monday, May 12, 2008 8:40:17 PM
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: BALOO vs OLS-WL vs IOLS

          Fred is absolutely right, we should present the material as it is
          intended. I see nothing wrong holding multiple courses at the same
          location to combine the admin side, and sharing the trainers. We
          agree that the actual instruction should be separate, except where the
          OLSWL syllabus suggests combining with IOLS. The instructors should
          make separate presentations accordingly to match each syllabus.

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]







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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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