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Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?

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  • Randy Sessions
    I didn t hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
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      I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

      Randy Sessions
      SM, C-05-06
      Council Training Chairman
      Quivira Council
      Wichita, Kansas

      Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
      Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
      attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
      conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
      Any help?

      Kevin






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • NeilLup@aol.com
      Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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        Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
        but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
        supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
        husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
        forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
        course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

        But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
        Scouting).

        When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
        demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
        just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
        the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
        a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
        teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
        ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
        see what was going on.

        The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
        was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
        asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
        not! It's none of your business." :)

        So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
        the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

        Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

        Best wishes,

        Neil Lupton


        **************
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Carter J Wood
        There is no absolute statement about family being in the same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development of the Patrol. I have seenmarried couples,
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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          There is no absolute statement about family being in the
          same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development
          of the Patrol.

          I have seenmarried couples, Father and son, Father and
          daughter and brothers attend. None have ever been in the
          same Patrol. We even try the best we can to mix up
          participants fromt he same home unit.

          Our current course is full (8 patrols of 8) and has a
          waiting list. So far, there are no family members in
          the course but we do have two spouses on the wait list.

          __________________________________________________
          Do You Yahoo!?
          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Alan Smason
          Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding, consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from the most
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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            Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
            consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
            the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
            sharing.

            Alan Smason
            New Orleans, LA
            -----Original Message-----
            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
            Behalf Of NeilLup@...
            Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


            Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
            course
            but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
            supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
            having a
            husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
            group
            forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
            course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

            But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
            Scouting).

            When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
            demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
            would
            just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
            let
            the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
            a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
            can
            teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
            ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
            see what was going on.

            The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
            was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
            writing. I
            asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
            not! It's none of your business." :)

            So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
            the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

            Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

            Best wishes,

            Neil Lupton

            **************
            Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
            Guides.

            (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
            6)

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • eagle9252
            i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an eagle so no
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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              i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
              eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
              eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
              no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
              request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
              of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
              and not 2

              On 4/9/08, Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
              >
              > Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
              > consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
              > the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
              > sharing.
              >
              > Alan Smason
              > New Orleans, LA
              > -----Original Message-----
              > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
              > scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>]On
              > Behalf Of NeilLup@... <NeilLup%40aol.com>
              > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
              > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
              > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?
              >
              > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
              > course
              > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
              > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
              > having a
              > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
              > group
              > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
              > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
              >
              > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
              > Scouting).
              >
              > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
              > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
              > would
              > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
              > let
              > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
              > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
              > can
              > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
              > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
              > see what was going on.
              >
              > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
              > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
              > writing. I
              > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
              > not! It's none of your business." :)
              >
              > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
              > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
              >
              > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
              >
              > Best wishes,
              >
              > Neil Lupton
              >
              > **************
              > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
              > Guides.
              >
              > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
              > 6)
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              >
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Margo Mead
              I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It s pretty rare I think! Margo
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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                I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!



                Margo



                From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of eagle9252
                Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:27 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?



                i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
                eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
                eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
                no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
                request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
                of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
                and not 2







                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ida Lively
                My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses. I have been told that I
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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                  My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the
                  attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses.

                  I have been told that I am an Alpha female. I don't tend to see it,
                  except in areas where I am confident that I know what I'm doing.
                  (Several on this list have met me, and I'm sure they have their own
                  opinions. ;) )

                  When I was put into a WB patrol, I was put with two people I knew, and
                  two that I didn't -- all males, three of whom were from my own (the
                  host) council. In my patrol, two were SM (one had moved on to be a
                  VA), one is MC and one was UC. My hat for WB was District MC. I was
                  the youngest of the group.

                  I'd have to say that our patrol meshed well. We each had strengths
                  that played well with the others.


                  I know that other patrols were not as fortunate ... there were
                  personality mixes that didn't do so well.


                  As for mixing --

                  My course was probably a challenge. Most of the attendees were from
                  one district in our council, so most of them knew each other already.

                  We had two married couples. We had a father-son pair. Several units
                  had two people in attendance, and one Troop had 4. We had the son of
                  the Course Director, and a daughter of a Staff Member on course.



                  My 'counterpart' in training, as many saw my friend Sharon, was put
                  into another patrol [for a long period, people would not think of one
                  of us without thinking of the other, since we're from the same
                  Pack/Troop].

                  My other 'cohort,' Jane, was in a third patrol, and her husband was
                  put into Sharon's patrol.

                  [Some wise trainers at Philmont had split Jane and me up the year
                  before when we took Training Cub Scout Leaders ... without really
                  knowing us, but knowing that we were from the same council, that we'd
                  probably be a 'force to be reckoned with.' They were right. ;) ]



                  I think that having different 'critters' is part of the fun of Wood
                  Badge -- part of the camaraderie. I know that whenever I go
                  somewhere, and see a Fox or an Owl, I know that I just HAVE to pick it
                  up for Sharon or Jane. They do the same when they see Beavers.


                  My husband will be taking WB this year. I'm serving on Staff. I'm
                  reasonably certain that he'll be put into a different critter patrol
                  than what I took it as, and I'm also certain that I will not be his
                  Troop Guide.

                  Ida
                • NeilLup@aol.com
                  ... Patrol assignments are rarely luck of the draw. I suspect it was planned to the benefit of you both. Best wishes, Neil Lupton ************** Planning
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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                    In a message dated 4/9/08 11:46:14 AM, meadclan@... writes:


                    >
                    > I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                    > critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!
                    >
                    > Margo
                    >
                    >
                    >
                    Patrol assignments are rarely "luck of the draw." I suspect it was planned
                    to the benefit of you both.

                    Best wishes,

                    Neil Lupton



                    **************
                    Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

                    (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • whymel@cox.net
                    Neil, Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge? Wally Hymel SE Louisiana Council
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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                      Neil,

                      Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?

                      Wally Hymel
                      SE Louisiana Council

                      ---- NeilLup@... wrote:
                      > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
                      > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                      > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
                      > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
                      > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                      > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
                      >
                      > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                      > Scouting).
                      >
                      > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                      > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
                      > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
                      > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                      > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
                      > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                      > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                      > see what was going on.
                      >
                      > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                      > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
                      > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                      > not! It's none of your business." :)
                      >
                      > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                      > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
                      >
                      > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
                      >
                      > Best wishes,
                      >
                      > Neil Lupton
                      >
                      >
                      > **************
                      > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                      > Guides.
                      >
                      > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                    • NeilLup@aol.com
                      ... I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
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                        In a message dated 4/9/08 4:04:07 PM, whymel@... writes:


                        > Neil,
                        >
                        > Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?
                        >
                        > Wally Hymel
                        > SE Louisiana Council
                        >

                        I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in
                        New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                        started. We did our first weekend in September on Saturday, Sunday and
                        Monday, then Tuesday AM, I was feeling pretty good about the course when our
                        Field Director called to tell me that I might want to turn on the TV as there
                        were some strange happenings at the twin towers in New York.

                        Neil Lupton


                        **************
                        Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                        Guides.

                        (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Glenn Dziedzic
                        In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 10, 2008
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                          In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same district. There were 7 people from my district that attended and none were in the same patrol.
                          I used t be an antelope, a good ole antelope too
                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Randy Sessions
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:50 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


                          I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

                          Randy Sessions
                          SM, C-05-06
                          Council Training Chairman
                          Quivira Council
                          Wichita, Kansas

                          Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
                          Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
                          attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
                          conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
                          Any help?

                          Kevin

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Scouter Chuck
                          Neil Lupton wrote: [snip] ... [snip] I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that statement. Why else would they be so secretive and
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 11, 2008
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                            Neil Lupton wrote:

                            [snip]
                            > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that
                            > she was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to
                            > do writing. I asked if they had listed that on her medical form and
                            > they said "Of course not! It's none of your business." :)
                            [snip]

                            I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that
                            statement. Why else would they be so secretive and adamant that her
                            vision status was none of "your" business?

                            That is, _VERY_MUCH_, the business of the Course Director and certain
                            others on staff. Just as much as a Scoutmaster needing to know that
                            one of the boys in his Troop on the next campout is ADHD and on meds.

                            It doesn't have to be "everybody's" business, but is _is_ the SM's
                            business.

                            YiS,

                            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                            Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                            -- Stephen R. Covey
                            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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