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Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?

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  • Randy Sessions
    I didn t hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
      I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

      Randy Sessions
      SM, C-05-06
      Council Training Chairman
      Quivira Council
      Wichita, Kansas

      Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
      Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
      attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
      conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
      Any help?

      Kevin






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Erik Carlson
      That is the same way in our council too. There is time for them to be together but they need to bond with their patrol mates. Kevin and Jane
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
        That is the same way in our council too. There is time for them to be together but they need to bond with their patrol mates.

        Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote: Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
        attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
        conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
        Any help?

        Kevin






        Erik Carlson
        RDO Co-Popcorn Kernal
        RDO, Golden Empire Council, BSA

        ---------------------------------
        You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Rick Rambo
        I don t recall that it was written in the admin guide, but I had a couple that refused to come onto the course unless they were in the same patrol when I was
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
          I don't recall that it was written in the admin guide, but I had a couple
          that refused to come onto the course unless they were in the same patrol
          when I was the CD. They chose not to attend.



          In would not allow marrieds in the same patrol because that would completely
          skew the dynamics of the patrol. We only have a limited amount of time and a
          specific schedule to work the participants through. Married people would
          have their own dynamics to overcome first.



          Rick Rambo

          Cascade Pacific Council



          _____

          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Kevin and Jane
          Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:49 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?



          Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
          attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
          conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
          Any help?

          Kevin





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • NeilLup@aol.com
          Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
            Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
            but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
            supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
            husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
            forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
            course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

            But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
            Scouting).

            When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
            demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
            just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
            the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
            a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
            teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
            ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
            see what was going on.

            The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
            was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
            asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
            not! It's none of your business." :)

            So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
            the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

            Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

            Best wishes,

            Neil Lupton


            **************
            Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
            Guides.

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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Carter J Wood
            There is no absolute statement about family being in the same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development of the Patrol. I have seenmarried couples,
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
              There is no absolute statement about family being in the
              same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development
              of the Patrol.

              I have seenmarried couples, Father and son, Father and
              daughter and brothers attend. None have ever been in the
              same Patrol. We even try the best we can to mix up
              participants fromt he same home unit.

              Our current course is full (8 patrols of 8) and has a
              waiting list. So far, there are no family members in
              the course but we do have two spouses on the wait list.

              __________________________________________________
              Do You Yahoo!?
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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Alan Smason
              Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding, consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from the most
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
                consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
                the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
                sharing.

                Alan Smason
                New Orleans, LA
                -----Original Message-----
                From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
                Behalf Of NeilLup@...
                Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


                Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
                course
                but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
                having a
                husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
                group
                forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

                But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                Scouting).

                When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
                would
                just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
                let
                the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
                can
                teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                see what was going on.

                The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
                writing. I
                asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                not! It's none of your business." :)

                So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

                Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

                Best wishes,

                Neil Lupton

                **************
                Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                Guides.

                (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
                6)

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • eagle9252
                i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an eagle so no
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                  i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
                  eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
                  eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
                  no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
                  request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
                  of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
                  and not 2

                  On 4/9/08, Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
                  > consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
                  > the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
                  > sharing.
                  >
                  > Alan Smason
                  > New Orleans, LA
                  > -----Original Message-----
                  > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                  > scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>]On
                  > Behalf Of NeilLup@... <NeilLup%40aol.com>
                  > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
                  > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                  > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?
                  >
                  > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
                  > course
                  > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                  > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
                  > having a
                  > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
                  > group
                  > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                  > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
                  >
                  > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                  > Scouting).
                  >
                  > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                  > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
                  > would
                  > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
                  > let
                  > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                  > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
                  > can
                  > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                  > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                  > see what was going on.
                  >
                  > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                  > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
                  > writing. I
                  > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                  > not! It's none of your business." :)
                  >
                  > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                  > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
                  >
                  > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
                  >
                  > Best wishes,
                  >
                  > Neil Lupton
                  >
                  > **************
                  > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                  > Guides.
                  >
                  > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
                  > 6)
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Margo Mead
                  I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It s pretty rare I think! Margo
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                    I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                    critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!



                    Margo



                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of eagle9252
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:27 AM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?



                    i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
                    eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
                    eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
                    no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
                    request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
                    of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
                    and not 2







                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Ida Lively
                    My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses. I have been told that I
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                      My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the
                      attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses.

                      I have been told that I am an Alpha female. I don't tend to see it,
                      except in areas where I am confident that I know what I'm doing.
                      (Several on this list have met me, and I'm sure they have their own
                      opinions. ;) )

                      When I was put into a WB patrol, I was put with two people I knew, and
                      two that I didn't -- all males, three of whom were from my own (the
                      host) council. In my patrol, two were SM (one had moved on to be a
                      VA), one is MC and one was UC. My hat for WB was District MC. I was
                      the youngest of the group.

                      I'd have to say that our patrol meshed well. We each had strengths
                      that played well with the others.


                      I know that other patrols were not as fortunate ... there were
                      personality mixes that didn't do so well.


                      As for mixing --

                      My course was probably a challenge. Most of the attendees were from
                      one district in our council, so most of them knew each other already.

                      We had two married couples. We had a father-son pair. Several units
                      had two people in attendance, and one Troop had 4. We had the son of
                      the Course Director, and a daughter of a Staff Member on course.



                      My 'counterpart' in training, as many saw my friend Sharon, was put
                      into another patrol [for a long period, people would not think of one
                      of us without thinking of the other, since we're from the same
                      Pack/Troop].

                      My other 'cohort,' Jane, was in a third patrol, and her husband was
                      put into Sharon's patrol.

                      [Some wise trainers at Philmont had split Jane and me up the year
                      before when we took Training Cub Scout Leaders ... without really
                      knowing us, but knowing that we were from the same council, that we'd
                      probably be a 'force to be reckoned with.' They were right. ;) ]



                      I think that having different 'critters' is part of the fun of Wood
                      Badge -- part of the camaraderie. I know that whenever I go
                      somewhere, and see a Fox or an Owl, I know that I just HAVE to pick it
                      up for Sharon or Jane. They do the same when they see Beavers.


                      My husband will be taking WB this year. I'm serving on Staff. I'm
                      reasonably certain that he'll be put into a different critter patrol
                      than what I took it as, and I'm also certain that I will not be his
                      Troop Guide.

                      Ida
                    • NeilLup@aol.com
                      ... Patrol assignments are rarely luck of the draw. I suspect it was planned to the benefit of you both. Best wishes, Neil Lupton ************** Planning
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                        In a message dated 4/9/08 11:46:14 AM, meadclan@... writes:


                        >
                        > I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                        > critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!
                        >
                        > Margo
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        Patrol assignments are rarely "luck of the draw." I suspect it was planned
                        to the benefit of you both.

                        Best wishes,

                        Neil Lupton



                        **************
                        Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

                        (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • whymel@cox.net
                        Neil, Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge? Wally Hymel SE Louisiana Council
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                          Neil,

                          Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?

                          Wally Hymel
                          SE Louisiana Council

                          ---- NeilLup@... wrote:
                          > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
                          > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                          > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
                          > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
                          > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                          > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
                          >
                          > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                          > Scouting).
                          >
                          > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                          > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
                          > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
                          > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                          > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
                          > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                          > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                          > see what was going on.
                          >
                          > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                          > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
                          > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                          > not! It's none of your business." :)
                          >
                          > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                          > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
                          >
                          > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
                          >
                          > Best wishes,
                          >
                          > Neil Lupton
                          >
                          >
                          > **************
                          > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                          > Guides.
                          >
                          > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
                          >
                          >
                          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          >
                        • NeilLup@aol.com
                          ... I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                            In a message dated 4/9/08 4:04:07 PM, whymel@... writes:


                            > Neil,
                            >
                            > Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?
                            >
                            > Wally Hymel
                            > SE Louisiana Council
                            >

                            I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in
                            New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                            started. We did our first weekend in September on Saturday, Sunday and
                            Monday, then Tuesday AM, I was feeling pretty good about the course when our
                            Field Director called to tell me that I might want to turn on the TV as there
                            were some strange happenings at the twin towers in New York.

                            Neil Lupton


                            **************
                            Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                            Guides.

                            (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Glenn Dziedzic
                            In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 10, 2008
                              In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same district. There were 7 people from my district that attended and none were in the same patrol.
                              I used t be an antelope, a good ole antelope too
                              ----- Original Message -----
                              From: Randy Sessions
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:50 PM
                              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


                              I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

                              Randy Sessions
                              SM, C-05-06
                              Council Training Chairman
                              Quivira Council
                              Wichita, Kansas

                              Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
                              Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
                              attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
                              conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
                              Any help?

                              Kevin

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Scouter Chuck
                              Neil Lupton wrote: [snip] ... [snip] I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that statement. Why else would they be so secretive and
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 11, 2008
                                Neil Lupton wrote:

                                [snip]
                                > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that
                                > she was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to
                                > do writing. I asked if they had listed that on her medical form and
                                > they said "Of course not! It's none of your business." :)
                                [snip]

                                I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that
                                statement. Why else would they be so secretive and adamant that her
                                vision status was none of "your" business?

                                That is, _VERY_MUCH_, the business of the Course Director and certain
                                others on staff. Just as much as a Scoutmaster needing to know that
                                one of the boys in his Troop on the next campout is ADHD and on meds.

                                It doesn't have to be "everybody's" business, but is _is_ the SM's
                                business.

                                YiS,

                                Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                                I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                -- Stephen R. Covey
                                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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