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Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?

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  • Randy Sessions
    I didn t hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
      I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

      Randy Sessions
      SM, C-05-06
      Council Training Chairman
      Quivira Council
      Wichita, Kansas

      Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
      Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
      attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
      conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
      Any help?

      Kevin






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Erik Carlson
      That is the same way in our council too. There is time for them to be together but they need to bond with their patrol mates. Kevin and Jane
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
        That is the same way in our council too. There is time for them to be together but they need to bond with their patrol mates.

        Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote: Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
        attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
        conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
        Any help?

        Kevin






        Erik Carlson
        RDO Co-Popcorn Kernal
        RDO, Golden Empire Council, BSA

        ---------------------------------
        You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • logan
        My wife and I took Woodbadge at the same time. I don t know if there are hard rules about couples being in the same patrol but I know that in our course none
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
          My wife and I took Woodbadge at the same time. I don't know if there
          are hard rules about couples being in the same patrol but I know that in
          our course none of the married couples were in the same patrol as their
          spouse. The course staff actually did their best to mix up the patrols
          so we didn't know the others in our patrol before the course. It is
          done that way intentionally and for good reason. I do not want to give
          anything away so I won't say any more about that. Just go with it. It
          will be a great experience and you both will have slightly different
          perspectives to share with each other since you'll be with different
          groups of people.

          Tim Logan
          C-16-07

          Kevin and Jane wrote:
          >
          > Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
          > attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
          > conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
          > Any help?
          >
          > Kevin
          >
          >
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        • Rick Rambo
          I don t recall that it was written in the admin guide, but I had a couple that refused to come onto the course unless they were in the same patrol when I was
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 8, 2008
            I don't recall that it was written in the admin guide, but I had a couple
            that refused to come onto the course unless they were in the same patrol
            when I was the CD. They chose not to attend.



            In would not allow marrieds in the same patrol because that would completely
            skew the dynamics of the patrol. We only have a limited amount of time and a
            specific schedule to work the participants through. Married people would
            have their own dynamics to overcome first.



            Rick Rambo

            Cascade Pacific Council



            _____

            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Kevin and Jane
            Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:49 PM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?



            Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
            attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
            conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
            Any help?

            Kevin





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • NeilLup@aol.com
            Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
              Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
              but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
              supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
              husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
              forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
              course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

              But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
              Scouting).

              When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
              demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
              just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
              the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
              a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
              teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
              ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
              see what was going on.

              The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
              was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
              asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
              not! It's none of your business." :)

              So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
              the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

              Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

              Best wishes,

              Neil Lupton


              **************
              Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
              Guides.

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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Carter J Wood
              There is no absolute statement about family being in the same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development of the Patrol. I have seenmarried couples,
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                There is no absolute statement about family being in the
                same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development
                of the Patrol.

                I have seenmarried couples, Father and son, Father and
                daughter and brothers attend. None have ever been in the
                same Patrol. We even try the best we can to mix up
                participants fromt he same home unit.

                Our current course is full (8 patrols of 8) and has a
                waiting list. So far, there are no family members in
                the course but we do have two spouses on the wait list.

                __________________________________________________
                Do You Yahoo!?
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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Alan Smason
                Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding, consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from the most
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                  Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
                  consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
                  the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
                  sharing.

                  Alan Smason
                  New Orleans, LA
                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
                  Behalf Of NeilLup@...
                  Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


                  Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
                  course
                  but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                  supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
                  having a
                  husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
                  group
                  forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                  course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

                  But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                  Scouting).

                  When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                  demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
                  would
                  just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
                  let
                  the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                  a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
                  can
                  teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                  ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                  see what was going on.

                  The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                  was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
                  writing. I
                  asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                  not! It's none of your business." :)

                  So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                  the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

                  Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

                  Best wishes,

                  Neil Lupton

                  **************
                  Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                  Guides.

                  (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
                  6)

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • eagle9252
                  i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an eagle so no
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                    i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
                    eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
                    eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
                    no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
                    request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
                    of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
                    and not 2

                    On 4/9/08, Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
                    > consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
                    > the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
                    > sharing.
                    >
                    > Alan Smason
                    > New Orleans, LA
                    > -----Original Message-----
                    > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                    > scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>]On
                    > Behalf Of NeilLup@... <NeilLup%40aol.com>
                    > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
                    > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?
                    >
                    > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
                    > course
                    > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                    > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
                    > having a
                    > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
                    > group
                    > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                    > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
                    >
                    > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                    > Scouting).
                    >
                    > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                    > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
                    > would
                    > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
                    > let
                    > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                    > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
                    > can
                    > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                    > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                    > see what was going on.
                    >
                    > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                    > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
                    > writing. I
                    > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                    > not! It's none of your business." :)
                    >
                    > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                    > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
                    >
                    > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
                    >
                    > Best wishes,
                    >
                    > Neil Lupton
                    >
                    > **************
                    > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                    > Guides.
                    >
                    > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
                    > 6)
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Margo Mead
                    I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It s pretty rare I think! Margo
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                      I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                      critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!



                      Margo



                      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of eagle9252
                      Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:27 AM
                      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?



                      i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
                      eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
                      eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
                      no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
                      request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
                      of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
                      and not 2







                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Ida Lively
                      My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses. I have been told that I
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                        My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the
                        attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses.

                        I have been told that I am an Alpha female. I don't tend to see it,
                        except in areas where I am confident that I know what I'm doing.
                        (Several on this list have met me, and I'm sure they have their own
                        opinions. ;) )

                        When I was put into a WB patrol, I was put with two people I knew, and
                        two that I didn't -- all males, three of whom were from my own (the
                        host) council. In my patrol, two were SM (one had moved on to be a
                        VA), one is MC and one was UC. My hat for WB was District MC. I was
                        the youngest of the group.

                        I'd have to say that our patrol meshed well. We each had strengths
                        that played well with the others.


                        I know that other patrols were not as fortunate ... there were
                        personality mixes that didn't do so well.


                        As for mixing --

                        My course was probably a challenge. Most of the attendees were from
                        one district in our council, so most of them knew each other already.

                        We had two married couples. We had a father-son pair. Several units
                        had two people in attendance, and one Troop had 4. We had the son of
                        the Course Director, and a daughter of a Staff Member on course.



                        My 'counterpart' in training, as many saw my friend Sharon, was put
                        into another patrol [for a long period, people would not think of one
                        of us without thinking of the other, since we're from the same
                        Pack/Troop].

                        My other 'cohort,' Jane, was in a third patrol, and her husband was
                        put into Sharon's patrol.

                        [Some wise trainers at Philmont had split Jane and me up the year
                        before when we took Training Cub Scout Leaders ... without really
                        knowing us, but knowing that we were from the same council, that we'd
                        probably be a 'force to be reckoned with.' They were right. ;) ]



                        I think that having different 'critters' is part of the fun of Wood
                        Badge -- part of the camaraderie. I know that whenever I go
                        somewhere, and see a Fox or an Owl, I know that I just HAVE to pick it
                        up for Sharon or Jane. They do the same when they see Beavers.


                        My husband will be taking WB this year. I'm serving on Staff. I'm
                        reasonably certain that he'll be put into a different critter patrol
                        than what I took it as, and I'm also certain that I will not be his
                        Troop Guide.

                        Ida
                      • NeilLup@aol.com
                        ... Patrol assignments are rarely luck of the draw. I suspect it was planned to the benefit of you both. Best wishes, Neil Lupton ************** Planning
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                          In a message dated 4/9/08 11:46:14 AM, meadclan@... writes:


                          >
                          > I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                          > critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!
                          >
                          > Margo
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          Patrol assignments are rarely "luck of the draw." I suspect it was planned
                          to the benefit of you both.

                          Best wishes,

                          Neil Lupton



                          **************
                          Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

                          (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • whymel@cox.net
                          Neil, Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge? Wally Hymel SE Louisiana Council
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                            Neil,

                            Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?

                            Wally Hymel
                            SE Louisiana Council

                            ---- NeilLup@... wrote:
                            > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
                            > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                            > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
                            > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
                            > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                            > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
                            >
                            > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                            > Scouting).
                            >
                            > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                            > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
                            > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
                            > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                            > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
                            > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                            > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                            > see what was going on.
                            >
                            > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                            > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
                            > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                            > not! It's none of your business." :)
                            >
                            > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                            > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
                            >
                            > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
                            >
                            > Best wishes,
                            >
                            > Neil Lupton
                            >
                            >
                            > **************
                            > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                            > Guides.
                            >
                            > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
                            >
                            >
                            > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            >
                          • NeilLup@aol.com
                            ... I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 9, 2008
                              In a message dated 4/9/08 4:04:07 PM, whymel@... writes:


                              > Neil,
                              >
                              > Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?
                              >
                              > Wally Hymel
                              > SE Louisiana Council
                              >

                              I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in
                              New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                              started. We did our first weekend in September on Saturday, Sunday and
                              Monday, then Tuesday AM, I was feeling pretty good about the course when our
                              Field Director called to tell me that I might want to turn on the TV as there
                              were some strange happenings at the twin towers in New York.

                              Neil Lupton


                              **************
                              Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                              Guides.

                              (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Glenn Dziedzic
                              In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 10, 2008
                                In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same district. There were 7 people from my district that attended and none were in the same patrol.
                                I used t be an antelope, a good ole antelope too
                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Randy Sessions
                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:50 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


                                I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

                                Randy Sessions
                                SM, C-05-06
                                Council Training Chairman
                                Quivira Council
                                Wichita, Kansas

                                Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
                                Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
                                attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
                                conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
                                Any help?

                                Kevin

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Scouter Chuck
                                Neil Lupton wrote: [snip] ... [snip] I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that statement. Why else would they be so secretive and
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 11, 2008
                                  Neil Lupton wrote:

                                  [snip]
                                  > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that
                                  > she was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to
                                  > do writing. I asked if they had listed that on her medical form and
                                  > they said "Of course not! It's none of your business." :)
                                  [snip]

                                  I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that
                                  statement. Why else would they be so secretive and adamant that her
                                  vision status was none of "your" business?

                                  That is, _VERY_MUCH_, the business of the Course Director and certain
                                  others on staff. Just as much as a Scoutmaster needing to know that
                                  one of the boys in his Troop on the next campout is ADHD and on meds.

                                  It doesn't have to be "everybody's" business, but is _is_ the SM's
                                  business.

                                  YiS,

                                  Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                                  I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                  Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                  Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                  "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                  -- Stephen R. Covey
                                  ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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