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Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?

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  • Randy Sessions
    I didn t hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be
    Message 1 of 17 , Apr 8 8:50 PM
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      I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

      Randy Sessions
      SM, C-05-06
      Council Training Chairman
      Quivira Council
      Wichita, Kansas

      Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
      Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
      attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
      conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
      Any help?

      Kevin






      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Erik Carlson
      That is the same way in our council too. There is time for them to be together but they need to bond with their patrol mates. Kevin and Jane
      Message 2 of 17 , Apr 8 8:53 PM
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        That is the same way in our council too. There is time for them to be together but they need to bond with their patrol mates.

        Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote: Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
        attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
        conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
        Any help?

        Kevin






        Erik Carlson
        RDO Co-Popcorn Kernal
        RDO, Golden Empire Council, BSA

        ---------------------------------
        You rock. That's why Blockbuster's offering you one month of Blockbuster Total Access, No Cost.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • T.W. Cook
        We had two couples in the recently completed SR-900. Certainly it would be a bad idea to have them in the same patrol, just like we try to keep from putting
        Message 3 of 17 , Apr 8 8:53 PM
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          We had two couples in the recently completed SR-900. Certainly it would be a
          bad idea to have them in the same patrol, just like we try to keep from
          putting people from the same unit in the same patrol. So, your course SM is
          right about that.

          Is the problem that you think you should be in the same patrol (if so, trust
          me, that would be a really bad idea), or is it that they won't let you
          attend the same course?

          On Tue, Apr 8, 2008 at 7:48 PM, Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:

          > Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
          > attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
          > conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
          > Any help?
          >
          > Kevin
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • logan
          My wife and I took Woodbadge at the same time. I don t know if there are hard rules about couples being in the same patrol but I know that in our course none
          Message 4 of 17 , Apr 8 9:38 PM
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            My wife and I took Woodbadge at the same time. I don't know if there
            are hard rules about couples being in the same patrol but I know that in
            our course none of the married couples were in the same patrol as their
            spouse. The course staff actually did their best to mix up the patrols
            so we didn't know the others in our patrol before the course. It is
            done that way intentionally and for good reason. I do not want to give
            anything away so I won't say any more about that. Just go with it. It
            will be a great experience and you both will have slightly different
            perspectives to share with each other since you'll be with different
            groups of people.

            Tim Logan
            C-16-07

            Kevin and Jane wrote:
            >
            > Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
            > attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
            > conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
            > Any help?
            >
            > Kevin
            >
            >
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          • Rick Rambo
            I don t recall that it was written in the admin guide, but I had a couple that refused to come onto the course unless they were in the same patrol when I was
            Message 5 of 17 , Apr 8 10:25 PM
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              I don't recall that it was written in the admin guide, but I had a couple
              that refused to come onto the course unless they were in the same patrol
              when I was the CD. They chose not to attend.



              In would not allow marrieds in the same patrol because that would completely
              skew the dynamics of the patrol. We only have a limited amount of time and a
              specific schedule to work the participants through. Married people would
              have their own dynamics to overcome first.



              Rick Rambo

              Cascade Pacific Council



              _____

              From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Kevin and Jane
              Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 5:49 PM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?



              Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
              attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
              conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
              Any help?

              Kevin





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • NeilLup@aol.com
              Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
              Message 6 of 17 , Apr 9 6:10 AM
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                Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
                but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
                husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
                forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

                But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                Scouting).

                When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
                just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
                the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
                teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                see what was going on.

                The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
                asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                not! It's none of your business." :)

                So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

                Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

                Best wishes,

                Neil Lupton


                **************
                Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                Guides.

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                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Carter J Wood
                There is no absolute statement about family being in the same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development of the Patrol. I have seenmarried couples,
                Message 7 of 17 , Apr 9 6:13 AM
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                  There is no absolute statement about family being in the
                  same WB Patrol but to do so would hamper the development
                  of the Patrol.

                  I have seenmarried couples, Father and son, Father and
                  daughter and brothers attend. None have ever been in the
                  same Patrol. We even try the best we can to mix up
                  participants fromt he same home unit.

                  Our current course is full (8 patrols of 8) and has a
                  waiting list. So far, there are no family members in
                  the course but we do have two spouses on the wait list.

                  __________________________________________________
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                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Alan Smason
                  Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding, consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from the most
                  Message 8 of 17 , Apr 9 7:07 AM
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                    Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
                    consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
                    the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
                    sharing.

                    Alan Smason
                    New Orleans, LA
                    -----Original Message-----
                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
                    Behalf Of NeilLup@...
                    Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


                    Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
                    course
                    but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                    supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
                    having a
                    husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
                    group
                    forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                    course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.

                    But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                    Scouting).

                    When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                    demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
                    would
                    just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
                    let
                    the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                    a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
                    can
                    teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                    ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                    see what was going on.

                    The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                    was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
                    writing. I
                    asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                    not! It's none of your business." :)

                    So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                    the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.

                    Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.

                    Best wishes,

                    Neil Lupton

                    **************
                    Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                    Guides.

                    (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
                    6)

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • eagle9252
                    i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an eagle so no
                    Message 9 of 17 , Apr 9 8:26 AM
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                      i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
                      eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
                      eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
                      no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
                      request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
                      of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
                      and not 2

                      On 4/9/08, Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Nice story, Neil. And may I add, it shows a capacity for understanding,
                      > consideration and sensitivity that all Scouter trainers should carry from
                      > the most elemental of courses to the most advanced training. Thanks for
                      > sharing.
                      >
                      > Alan Smason
                      > New Orleans, LA
                      > -----Original Message-----
                      > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
                      > scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>]On
                      > Behalf Of NeilLup@... <NeilLup%40aol.com>
                      > Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:10 AM
                      > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                      > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?
                      >
                      > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same
                      > course
                      > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                      > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and
                      > having a
                      > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the
                      > group
                      > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                      > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
                      >
                      > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                      > Scouting).
                      >
                      > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                      > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they
                      > would
                      > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't
                      > let
                      > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                      > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone
                      > can
                      > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                      > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                      > see what was going on.
                      >
                      > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                      > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do
                      > writing. I
                      > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                      > not! It's none of your business." :)
                      >
                      > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                      > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
                      >
                      > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
                      >
                      > Best wishes,
                      >
                      > Neil Lupton
                      >
                      > **************
                      > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                      > Guides.
                      >
                      > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv0003000000001
                      > 6)
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Margo Mead
                      I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It s pretty rare I think! Margo
                      Message 10 of 17 , Apr 9 8:41 AM
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                        I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                        critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!



                        Margo



                        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of eagle9252
                        Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2008 8:27 AM
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?



                        i would say no to the same patrol at the same time but if say you were an
                        eagle and on the next course your spouse took it and requested to be an
                        eagle so no critter bashing in the house i would say yes. but some have said
                        no. i would not wont to force someone to be a different critter for a
                        request like that. i understand the need for diversity but why the purchase
                        of critter trinkets and stuff it's cheaper to only have to buy the 1 critter
                        and not 2







                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Ida Lively
                        My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses. I have been told that I
                        Message 11 of 17 , Apr 9 9:09 AM
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                          My understanding is that the Course Directors (and staff) look at the
                          attendees, and look for their obvious strengths and weaknesses.

                          I have been told that I am an Alpha female. I don't tend to see it,
                          except in areas where I am confident that I know what I'm doing.
                          (Several on this list have met me, and I'm sure they have their own
                          opinions. ;) )

                          When I was put into a WB patrol, I was put with two people I knew, and
                          two that I didn't -- all males, three of whom were from my own (the
                          host) council. In my patrol, two were SM (one had moved on to be a
                          VA), one is MC and one was UC. My hat for WB was District MC. I was
                          the youngest of the group.

                          I'd have to say that our patrol meshed well. We each had strengths
                          that played well with the others.


                          I know that other patrols were not as fortunate ... there were
                          personality mixes that didn't do so well.


                          As for mixing --

                          My course was probably a challenge. Most of the attendees were from
                          one district in our council, so most of them knew each other already.

                          We had two married couples. We had a father-son pair. Several units
                          had two people in attendance, and one Troop had 4. We had the son of
                          the Course Director, and a daughter of a Staff Member on course.



                          My 'counterpart' in training, as many saw my friend Sharon, was put
                          into another patrol [for a long period, people would not think of one
                          of us without thinking of the other, since we're from the same
                          Pack/Troop].

                          My other 'cohort,' Jane, was in a third patrol, and her husband was
                          put into Sharon's patrol.

                          [Some wise trainers at Philmont had split Jane and me up the year
                          before when we took Training Cub Scout Leaders ... without really
                          knowing us, but knowing that we were from the same council, that we'd
                          probably be a 'force to be reckoned with.' They were right. ;) ]



                          I think that having different 'critters' is part of the fun of Wood
                          Badge -- part of the camaraderie. I know that whenever I go
                          somewhere, and see a Fox or an Owl, I know that I just HAVE to pick it
                          up for Sharon or Jane. They do the same when they see Beavers.


                          My husband will be taking WB this year. I'm serving on Staff. I'm
                          reasonably certain that he'll be put into a different critter patrol
                          than what I took it as, and I'm also certain that I will not be his
                          Troop Guide.

                          Ida
                        • NeilLup@aol.com
                          ... Patrol assignments are rarely luck of the draw. I suspect it was planned to the benefit of you both. Best wishes, Neil Lupton ************** Planning
                          Message 12 of 17 , Apr 9 10:40 AM
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                            In a message dated 4/9/08 11:46:14 AM, meadclan@... writes:


                            >
                            > I went over 10 years after my hubby did, and just happened to be the same
                            > critter as my husband, just by luck of the draw. It's pretty rare I think!
                            >
                            > Margo
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            Patrol assignments are rarely "luck of the draw." I suspect it was planned
                            to the benefit of you both.

                            Best wishes,

                            Neil Lupton



                            **************
                            Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel Guides.

                            (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)



                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • whymel@cox.net
                            Neil, Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge? Wally Hymel SE Louisiana Council
                            Message 13 of 17 , Apr 9 1:03 PM
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                              Neil,

                              Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?

                              Wally Hymel
                              SE Louisiana Council

                              ---- NeilLup@... wrote:
                              > Normally, it is totally proper for married couples to be in the same course
                              > but not in the same patrol for the reasons already stated. The patrol is
                              > supposed to be a new group formed for the purposes of that course and having a
                              > husband/wife team with all of the relationships preexisting impacts the group
                              > forming. Plus, they each miss out on the opportunity to learn from other
                              > course members as they would both have the same patrol mates.
                              >
                              > But it isn't written in stone. Very few things are in Wood Badge (or in
                              > Scouting).
                              >
                              > When I directed a course in 2001, we had a husband/wife pair come in
                              > demanding to be in the same patrol and saying that if they weren't, they would
                              > just walk out right now. I was about a quarter second from saying "Don't let
                              > the door hit you on the way out." However, I then forced myself to take
                              > a deep breath and remembered what we had heard at the conference "Anyone can
                              > teach the easy participants. It takes the great trainers to teach the hard
                              > ones." So I asked a staff member from their district to explore a bit and
                              > see what was going on.
                              >
                              > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that she
                              > was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to do writing. I
                              > asked if they had listed that on her medical form and they said "Of course
                              > not! It's none of your business." :)
                              >
                              > So we let them both be Bob Whites. They had a good time, both finished
                              > the course and have both, I believe, been on staff.
                              >
                              > Sometimes, rules have to be written on solid Jell-o.
                              >
                              > Best wishes,
                              >
                              > Neil Lupton
                              >
                              >
                              > **************
                              > Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                              > Guides.
                              >
                              > (http://travel.aol.com/travel-guide/united-states?ncid=aoltrv00030000000016)
                              >
                              >
                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              >
                            • NeilLup@aol.com
                              ... I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                              Message 14 of 17 , Apr 9 4:32 PM
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                                In a message dated 4/9/08 4:04:07 PM, whymel@... writes:


                                > Neil,
                                >
                                > Just out of curiosity was your course in 2001 21st Century Wood Badge?
                                >
                                > Wally Hymel
                                > SE Louisiana Council
                                >

                                I had the privilege of directing the first 21st Century Wood Badge course in
                                New England. We got the final course guide about 10 days before the course
                                started. We did our first weekend in September on Saturday, Sunday and
                                Monday, then Tuesday AM, I was feeling pretty good about the course when our
                                Field Director called to tell me that I might want to turn on the TV as there
                                were some strange happenings at the twin towers in New York.

                                Neil Lupton


                                **************
                                Planning your summer road trip? Check out AOL Travel
                                Guides.

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                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Glenn Dziedzic
                                In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same
                                Message 15 of 17 , Apr 10 2:04 PM
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                                  In our council not only do they not have people from the same units, they split you up so that if possible the patrol does not have members from the same district. There were 7 people from my district that attended and none were in the same patrol.
                                  I used t be an antelope, a good ole antelope too
                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Randy Sessions
                                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Tuesday, April 08, 2008 11:50 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Woodbadge In Stone?


                                  I didn't hear that in my CDC, but diversity IS required in the patrols. It is highly discouraged that participants from the same units, and family members be put into the same patrol. ONe of the things about a WB course is getting to konw and work with a diverse group of people. It is hard to do this when y ou are in a patrol with those you know well. As I stated, I was not specifically told that about married couples, but I would not, nor will I for my course, put a married couple in the same patrol. It defeats part of the purpose.

                                  Randy Sessions
                                  SM, C-05-06
                                  Council Training Chairman
                                  Quivira Council
                                  Wichita, Kansas

                                  Kevin and Jane <trecamp@...> wrote:
                                  Where might one find out about the absolutes about married couples
                                  attending woodbadge? Our local course SM said that the course leaders
                                  conference said that having couples in the same patrol was not allowed.
                                  Any help?

                                  Kevin

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Scouter Chuck
                                  Neil Lupton wrote: [snip] ... [snip] I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that statement. Why else would they be so secretive and
                                  Message 16 of 17 , Apr 11 1:27 PM
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                                    Neil Lupton wrote:

                                    [snip]
                                    > The husband/wife pair was reluctant to clarify, but it came out that
                                    > she was legally blind and wanted him to read to her and help her to
                                    > do writing. I asked if they had listed that on her medical form and
                                    > they said "Of course not! It's none of your business." :)
                                    [snip]

                                    I wonder what had happened with them previously, for them to make that
                                    statement. Why else would they be so secretive and adamant that her
                                    vision status was none of "your" business?

                                    That is, _VERY_MUCH_, the business of the Course Director and certain
                                    others on staff. Just as much as a Scoutmaster needing to know that
                                    one of the boys in his Troop on the next campout is ADHD and on meds.

                                    It doesn't have to be "everybody's" business, but is _is_ the SM's
                                    business.

                                    YiS,

                                    Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                                    I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                                    Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                                    Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                                    "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                                    -- Stephen R. Covey
                                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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