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Venturing Leader Specific and NLE

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  • Ryan
    I ve been fortunate enough to have been asked to be the instructor for Venturing leader specific training again next month for a district training day.
    Message 1 of 7 , Feb 26, 2008
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      I've been fortunate enough to have been asked to be the instructor
      for Venturing leader specific training again next month for a
      district training day. Talking about Venturing is something I
      thoroughly enjoy and so I'm looking forward to it.

      Back six months ago I also did the training and I had come on this
      group expressing some concerns about what I was being asked to do.
      You can check the archives, but basically, I was asked to do the 5
      hour Venturing training in a little less than 3 hours. Even worse
      they had wanted to combine Scoutmaster, Team Coach, and Crew Advisor
      with a half hour break out session for program specific information.
      Fortunately I could at least talk them out of that.

      This time around I've had more influence and have made it known that
      Venturing will again be done completely independent of the other
      trainings and that we will be doing the complete 5 hour course.

      There are still some things that I haven't gotten completely worked
      out though and would like your thoughts.

      This district does NLE and Leader Specific training all in one day.
      Sort of an one-stop-shop (this is their reason for shortening the
      trainings by the way). This makes for a long day. Also, the
      district does not provide lunch or charge for lunch or the training.
      If NLE starts at 8:00 AM and goes until 9:30, then I assume Leader
      Specific will start about 9:45 after having a little bit of a break.
      Five hours after that puts us at 2:45 PM if there were no lunch
      break. I don't think this would go over real well. So what do I do?

      I see a few options here.

      1) Break at about 12:00 for lunch. Tell everyone they are on their
      own, but to be back in an hour and continue the training until 3:45
      PM. Still a very long day, but could be the best solution.

      2) Charge for the training (Venturing would then be the only training
      course that would have a fee) and somehow provide lunch. Have
      someone cook lunch for us, or get Subway sandwiches or something.
      Then we could take a half hour break or so and then jump back into
      the training. Problems with this is there is no reliable way to know
      how many are coming and there is no mechanism in place to either
      register or collect fees before the event.

      3) Another option that I don't really like, but it is a
      consideration, would be to have the people attending the Venturing
      training skip NLE and just jump into the Venturing leader specific
      training and end at 1:00 PM. I don't like this option because they
      will have skipped one of the training that they are supposed to have
      to be trained. I don't want to encourage cutting corners. However,
      this option might be viable because the basic concepts from NLE are
      repeated in the first few hours of the Venturing syllabus (ie. aims,
      methods, development of young people, etc...)

      Are any of these three options reasonable or are there better options
      that I have not considered?

      This discussion also begs another question. When do your districts
      or councils do NLE? When I was in a previous Council, NLE was done
      regularly at Roundtable. I liked this arrangement because it
      shortened the Saturday Leader Specific Training day. Here they take
      the approach that all training has to be done in one setting
      otherwise they will never get the people back to finish their
      training. Whether right or wrong, there is probably some truth to
      that. How are the NLE and Leader Specific Training scheduled
      elsewhere?

      Ryan
      Ore-Ida Council
      Boise, ID
    • Robert Wilson
      ... Ryan, when I took SM training several years ago, this is what we did. Fortunately, there are places to eat near where we do most of our training. This
      Message 2 of 7 , Feb 26, 2008
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        On Tue, Feb 26, 2008 at 4:32 PM, Ryan <rd_lancaster@...> wrote:

        > I see a few options here.
        >
        > 1) Break at about 12:00 for lunch. Tell everyone they are on their
        > own, but to be back in an hour and continue the training until 3:45
        > PM. Still a very long day, but could be the best solution.
        >

        Ryan, when I took SM training several years ago, this is what we did.
        Fortunately, there are places to eat near where we do most of our training.
        This worked well. Another option would be to have folks bring their lunch.


        > This discussion also begs another question. When do your districts
        > or councils do NLE? When I was in a previous Council, NLE was done
        > regularly at Roundtable.


        For Cub training, we usually do NLE the same day as the LST. For SM
        training, we've done NLE generally on the Thursday night before the SM/ASM
        training on Saturday. I don't think I'd like to do NLE training at
        roundtable as we usually have a full program already.

        Robert


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Connie Knie
        Our NLE and Leader specific is all in one day and I agree that it is the way to go since folks would rather give up one day than two............or one night
        Message 3 of 7 , Feb 26, 2008
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          Our NLE and Leader specific is all in one day and I agree that it is the way to go since folks would rather give up one day than two............or one night and one day........anyway we have done both provided lunch that the trainers all brought as sort of a potluck. Going off of preregistration numbers. If we had tons of walk ins than a quick trip to the store was in order. Also we tell everyone to bring lunch or if you did not then we give them half an hour to go get something and come back. But if all of my Cubmasters (for example) brought a lunch then I make it a working lunch and we get more done.................if someone needs to run out then we just chit chat for half an hour and when they return get going...............

          Ryan <rd_lancaster@...> wrote:

          1) Break at about 12:00 for lunch. Tell everyone they are on their
          own, but to be back in an hour and continue the training until 3:45
          PM. Still a very long day, but could be the best solution.



          This discussion also begs another question. When do your districts
          or councils do NLE?

          connie

          SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Jamie Niss Dunn
          Here s a typical all in one training day schedule for our district 7:00 a.m. trainers and DEs arrive and begin set up 7:30 a.m. SM/ASM trainees arrive for
          Message 4 of 7 , Feb 26, 2008
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            Here's a typical all in one training day schedule for our district



            7:00 a.m. trainers and DEs arrive and begin set up

            7:30 a.m. SM/ASM trainees arrive for check in

            8:00 a.m. SM/ASM training sessions start; NLE,?& Den Chief training attendees arrive for check in

            8:30 a.m. NLE?& Den Chief training begins

            10:15 a.m. Cub Position specific, ?Troop Committee Challenge & Venturing trainees not taking NLE (having had it previously) arrive for check in
            10:30 NLE ends
            10:45 Cub Position Specific training, TCC?& Venturing training begins
            11:45 lunch for all (except Den Chiefs & TCC) arrives - typically Subway/Jimmy John's/other deli sandwiches - sometimes pizza
            12:00 lunch is served in shfts and trainees return to classrooms to eat while being trained
            12:30 Den Chief & TCC training ends
            1:15 Cub Position Specific Training ends
            1:30 YPT begins
            3:45 Venturing training ends
            4:00 SM/ASM training ends

            In October there will typically be 150-200 people attending at some point during the day, including 15-20 trainers/staff

            The spring (March/April) version of this has 75-100 people attending, including 10-15 trainers.

            In addition we hold another day of just Cub training using the same schedule, one stand alone evening NLE (Jan), one evening Cub PST (Jan), one three evening SM/ASM course (Feb/Mar). YPT is offered before two RTs. Outdoor sessions are offered in one weekend in May, including BALOO, OLSWL and IOLS all at the same location. We will be adding a second session of BALOO and OLSWL this coming fall.

            Yes, we charge for this. Typically $10-$15 plus $5-$6 for lunch. In order to have a space big enough, we end up paying rent for the use of a church education wing for an entire Saturday. When we're lucky, that costs $50-$100. Sometimes it costs $200. Outdoor courses are $20-$30 depending on the course (again, we have to pay to use our council camp)

            Our district has approximately 95 units - 43 Cub Packs, 29(?) troops and the remainder are Crews.


            YiS,
            Jamie Niss Dunn
            Pack Trainer, Pack 512
            Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
            Cub Scout Training Coordinator
            Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
            3 Rivers District
            Scouting. Good for Life.





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            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sandra Martens
            our council combines all the training in one day too- except for Sm and Venturing. they are stand alone, and the participants need to get NLE another time. I
            Message 5 of 7 , Feb 26, 2008
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              our council combines all the training in one day too- except for Sm and Venturing. they are stand alone, and the participants need to get NLE another time.

              I don't worry too much about that- many of them were in CS or BS before venturing and therefore know a lot (or already went through NLE and don't realize it counts forever)

              Besides- on the CS side training is being changed so leader specific comes first, then youth protection, and NLE as the last element.

              Sandy OWL

              Ryan <rd_lancaster@...> wrote:
              I've been fortunate enough to have been asked to be the instructor
              for Venturing leader specific training again next month for a
              district training day. Talking about Venturing is something I
              thoroughly enjoy and so I'm looking forward to it.

              Back six months ago I also did the training and I had come on this
              group expressing some concerns about what I was being asked to do.
              You can check the archives, but basically, I was asked to do the 5
              hour Venturing training in a little less than 3 hours. Even worse
              they had wanted to combine Scoutmaster, Team Coach, and Crew Advisor
              with a half hour break out session for program specific information.
              Fortunately I could at least talk them out of that.

              This time around I've had more influence and have made it known that
              Venturing will again be done completely independent of the other
              trainings and that we will be doing the complete 5 hour course.

              There are still some things that I haven't gotten completely worked
              out though and would like your thoughts.

              This district does NLE and Leader Specific training all in one day.
              Sort of an one-stop-shop (this is their reason for shortening the
              trainings by the way). This makes for a long day. Also, the
              district does not provide lunch or charge for lunch or the training.
              If NLE starts at 8:00 AM and goes until 9:30, then I assume Leader
              Specific will start about 9:45 after having a little bit of a break.
              Five hours after that puts us at 2:45 PM if there were no lunch
              break. I don't think this would go over real well. So what do I do?

              I see a few options here.

              1) Break at about 12:00 for lunch. Tell everyone they are on their
              own, but to be back in an hour and continue the training until 3:45
              PM. Still a very long day, but could be the best solution.

              2) Charge for the training (Venturing would then be the only training
              course that would have a fee) and somehow provide lunch. Have
              someone cook lunch for us, or get Subway sandwiches or something.
              Then we could take a half hour break or so and then jump back into
              the training. Problems with this is there is no reliable way to know
              how many are coming and there is no mechanism in place to either
              register or collect fees before the event.

              3) Another option that I don't really like, but it is a
              consideration, would be to have the people attending the Venturing
              training skip NLE and just jump into the Venturing leader specific
              training and end at 1:00 PM. I don't like this option because they
              will have skipped one of the training that they are supposed to have
              to be trained. I don't want to encourage cutting corners. However,
              this option might be viable because the basic concepts from NLE are
              repeated in the first few hours of the Venturing syllabus (ie. aims,
              methods, development of young people, etc...)

              Are any of these three options reasonable or are there better options
              that I have not considered?

              This discussion also begs another question. When do your districts
              or councils do NLE? When I was in a previous Council, NLE was done
              regularly at Roundtable. I liked this arrangement because it
              shortened the Saturday Leader Specific Training day. Here they take
              the approach that all training has to be done in one setting
              otherwise they will never get the people back to finish their
              training. Whether right or wrong, there is probably some truth to
              that. How are the NLE and Leader Specific Training scheduled
              elsewhere?

              Ryan
              Ore-Ida Council
              Boise, ID






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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Scott & Rita Eliason
              Ryan, In my district (Aquila, Chief Seattle Council), we do Venturing Leader Specific Training (VLST) twice a year, February and September, and I have also
              Message 6 of 7 , Feb 26, 2008
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                Ryan,



                In my district (Aquila, Chief Seattle Council), we do Venturing Leader
                Specific Training (VLST) twice a year, February and September, and I have
                also done VLST at our council Program and Training Conference (PTC) (a sort
                of all program Pow Wow on steroids). Our approach is that Venturing is NOT
                Boy Scouts, Cub Scouts or Varsity Scouts and needs to be separate. The
                schedule is straight out of the syllabus and is followed by New Leader
                Essentials. We always finish the VLST within our 5 hours and ask the
                participants and staff to bring a lunch. We are fortunate to have a grocery
                deli and a teriyaki place within a block. NLE follows because the timing is
                so hard to keep at 90 minutes, especially if anyone has questions.
                Fortunately my district training chair is also a Venturer and helps with my
                course. I use as many youth instructors as possible, for the positive effect
                it has, and a very seasoned instructor for Session 2. She can usually go
                through all three of the original Personal Safety Awareness scenarios.



                For the PTC, we are allotted three 90 minute periods, so have to run to
                finish, but were able to do so, without hurting the material.



                I would fight to divorce from the 'one size fits all' group training, if I
                were in your shoes. Stick to your guns, have the participants bring their
                own bag lunch and if you go longer than the others, at least you are doing
                it right. AND.shame on the district for cutting the Boy Scout leaders
                training in more than half. Nobody is winning anything there.



                Scott Eliason

                Advisor, Crew 391, Des Moines, WA

                Venturing Leader Training Coordinator, Aquila District

                'Training for all leaders since Wood Badge in 1981'



                From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Ryan
                Sent: Tuesday, 26 February 2008 13:33
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Venturing Leader Specific and NLE



                I've been fortunate enough to have been asked to be the instructor
                for Venturing leader specific training again next month for a
                district training day. Talking about Venturing is something I
                thoroughly enjoy and so I'm looking forward to it.

                Back six months ago I also did the training and I had come on this
                group expressing some concerns about what I was being asked to do.
                You can check the archives, but basically, I was asked to do the 5
                hour Venturing training in a little less than 3 hours. Even worse
                they had wanted to combine Scoutmaster, Team Coach, and Crew Advisor
                with a half hour break out session for program specific information.
                Fortunately I could at least talk them out of that.

                This time around I've had more influence and have made it known that
                Venturing will again be done completely independent of the other
                trainings and that we will be doing the complete 5 hour course.

                There are still some things that I haven't gotten completely worked
                out though and would like your thoughts.

                This district does NLE and Leader Specific training all in one day.
                Sort of an one-stop-shop (this is their reason for shortening the
                trainings by the way). This makes for a long day. Also, the
                district does not provide lunch or charge for lunch or the training.
                If NLE starts at 8:00 AM and goes until 9:30, then I assume Leader
                Specific will start about 9:45 after having a little bit of a break.
                Five hours after that puts us at 2:45 PM if there were no lunch
                break. I don't think this would go over real well. So what do I do?

                I see a few options here.

                1) Break at about 12:00 for lunch. Tell everyone they are on their
                own, but to be back in an hour and continue the training until 3:45
                PM. Still a very long day, but could be the best solution.

                2) Charge for the training (Venturing would then be the only training
                course that would have a fee) and somehow provide lunch. Have
                someone cook lunch for us, or get Subway sandwiches or something.
                Then we could take a half hour break or so and then jump back into
                the training. Problems with this is there is no reliable way to know
                how many are coming and there is no mechanism in place to either
                register or collect fees before the event.

                3) Another option that I don't really like, but it is a
                consideration, would be to have the people attending the Venturing
                training skip NLE and just jump into the Venturing leader specific
                training and end at 1:00 PM. I don't like this option because they
                will have skipped one of the training that they are supposed to have
                to be trained. I don't want to encourage cutting corners. However,
                this option might be viable because the basic concepts from NLE are
                repeated in the first few hours of the Venturing syllabus (ie. aims,
                methods, development of young people, etc...)

                Are any of these three options reasonable or are there better options
                that I have not considered?

                This discussion also begs another question. When do your districts
                or councils do NLE? When I was in a previous Council, NLE was done
                regularly at Roundtable. I liked this arrangement because it
                shortened the Saturday Leader Specific Training day. Here they take
                the approach that all training has to be done in one setting
                otherwise they will never get the people back to finish their
                training. Whether right or wrong, there is probably some truth to
                that. How are the NLE and Leader Specific Training scheduled
                elsewhere?

                Ryan
                Ore-Ida Council
                Boise, ID





                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Ryan
                I appreciate all of the responses I ve gotten. It has been fun to learn what all of you do in various parts of the country. I forwarded on some of your
                Message 7 of 7 , Mar 1, 2008
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                  I appreciate all of the responses I've gotten. It has been fun to
                  learn what all of you do in various parts of the country.

                  I forwarded on some of your outlines and suggestions to the district
                  training chair and he thought they were interesting to see too. I
                  hope it was ok that I forwarded some of your suggestions. I removed
                  any personal information before I sent it.

                  Here was what we decided to do. To my disappointment, the Venturing
                  Leader Specific Training will be the only training offered that day
                  that will go the full duration that is outlined in the syllabi. The
                  Venturing training will start at 9:00 AM after NLE and we will be
                  scheduled to end at 3:00 or sooner depending on how long we take for
                  lunch.

                  The Scoutmasters and Team Coaches have been asked to bring a can of
                  chili to have a sort of pot luck lunch and the Venturing Advisors and
                  other trainees will be asked to do the same.

                  I've also found another person to assist in the training and so I hope
                  that will be good. She previously did the training before I moved
                  here, but was not able to 6 months ago and that was when I got
                  involved. She has more experience in Boy Scouting than she does in
                  Venturing and so I'm a little worried that the Venturing training she
                  gives will have a Boy Scout flavor, but I will have to see how that
                  goes. She and I are getting together a week before the training day
                  and so hopefully she and I can coordinate how it will work then.

                  The district training chairman and I have exchanged several long
                  emails throughout this discussion and he wants to get together with me
                  after the trainings are over and discuss going back to making the
                  trainings the right length. Hopefully that will be the case.

                  Again, I appreciate all of the input.

                  Ryan
                  Boise, ID
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