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RE: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference

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  • Sandra Martens
    that s all fine and well, but if you re a boy teaching at NYLT and your power point goes out in the middle of a presentation and you are in a boy scout camp
    Message 1 of 27 , Nov 23, 2007
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      that's all fine and well, but if you're a boy teaching at NYLT and your power point goes out in the middle of a presentation and you are in a boy scout camp with no state of the art equipment, and no specialists who can get it up again, you need to know and be familiar with other ways of presenting the material.

      remember- I'm not talking about how we teach the TDC but how the students will take and use it themselves. That is what we're doing- teaching them how to teach.

      Sandy OWL

      Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
      Sandy,
      I mean no disrespect, but from someone whose area experienced power
      outages of Biblical proportions, I can assure you that I know about having
      to deal with adversity. Nevertheless, I must tell you that we are very
      blessed in our Council to have Tulane University as the site of our Trainer
      Development Conferences.
      The state of the art equipment -- multi-media rooms with overhead
      projectors, display screens that descend from the ceilings, computers with
      Internet access, laptop hookups and, of course, chalk boards -- in the large
      arena style classrooms truly make our Trainer Development Conferences top
      notch. Tulane provides this space to us at no charge with the proviso that
      we keep the classrooms neat, clean up after ourselves, and turn out the
      lights on the way out.
      However, just because we are spoiled doesn't mean that we couldn't
      respond to a less than desirable situation. Our TDC staffers are very
      capable. Were we to experience a power outage, I am certain we would grab
      pens and pads to instruct our group and would even conduct sessions by
      candlelight if necessary.
      I agree that we all need to have backup plans for any contingency
      (Plans B and C, right?), but shouldn't we avail ourselves of what resources
      we may have to make training as effective and up to date as possible? As a
      Microsoft Certified Engineer with A+ and other CompTIA certifications, I'm
      also lucky that in the event of a fried CPU, I could repair it or replace it
      in just a few minutes. I'll bet that there are similar fellows in your
      district or council who could assist you in your presentations.
      While you are correct that not everyone can afford to have state of the
      art equipment, you might be surprised at what institutions and people in
      your area who are willing to support Scouting at little or no cost to your
      Council. As an example, Tulane's Engineering School believes that it does
      itself a favor by being civic minded and exposing the Scouting segment to
      its facilities. It even allows our district to put on our annual Merit
      Badge College there each January at no charge. Perhaps there is a college
      or university with similar facilities in your area.

      Alan
      -----Original Message-----
      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf Of Sandra Martens
      Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 6:46 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference

      yes, computer slide shows are great. but what happens when the power goes
      or the cpu fries in the middle of the training? they need to know back up
      methods of presenting material.

      and not all of us have the money to have state of the art equipment like
      that.

      Sandy OWL

      Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
      Yes, Michael. It is certainly time. Whether the EDGE principles are
      introduced or not, the present course work for the Trainer Development
      Conference seems in serious need of updating. Our council trained 22 new
      trainers this year, but a number of them attended because it was required
      that they attend or staff a TDC within the past 3 years in order to serve
      on
      the staff for the upcoming Wood Badge course.
      When the TDC was new to our council some six or so years ago, we drew
      upwards of 90 trainers. Many of them never returned to attend another
      conference because they saw nothing new being offered in the intervening
      years.
      Personally, I would prefer more time be spent on computer slide show
      presentations rather than on white boards, chalk boards, flannel boards,
      or
      magnet boards. But as Seinfeld observed..."not that there's anything wrong
      with that!"

      Happy Thanksgiving,

      Alan Smason
      2007 Trainer Development Conference
      Southeaast Louisiana Council
      -----Original Message-----
      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
      Behalf Of Michael Brown
      Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:48 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference

      We have heard for several months that the Trainer Development Conference
      was being reworked to use the EDGE principles of Wood Badge, NYLT, etc.

      We also have heard that (a) it would be out before summer 2007 (b) it
      would be introduced at Philmonth (c) it would be out at or before Top
      Hands
      in the fall.

      We have yet to see it. The local Scout Shop knows nothing about it.

      What have you heard? Does anyone have it? Has anyone seen it? Impressions?
      How did you get it?

      Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving!

      Michael Brown
      San Francisco Bay Area Council

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    • corinnajones@hotmail.com
      Sandy, You got a good point. It also needs to be considered that many trainers bring training to the units. The other night we were at a local VFW hall, in the
      Message 2 of 27 , Nov 23, 2007
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        Sandy,
        You got a good point. It also needs to be considered that many trainers
        bring training to the units.
        The other night we were at a local VFW hall, in the basement. The outlets
        were fine (luckily), but there were some problems between the laptop
        connection and the display unit.
        The trainer was prepared and had set up his back-up, and proceeded
        immediately to do it "manually".
        I believe there is more to being a good trainer, other than being able to
        put on a good PowerPoint presentation.

        Corinna

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Sandra Martens" <sandyowl1@...>
        To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
        Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 6:30 AM
        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference


        > that's all fine and well, but if you're a boy teaching at NYLT and your
        > power point goes out in the middle of a presentation and you are in a boy
        > scout camp with no state of the art equipment, and no specialists who can
        > get it up again, you need to know and be familiar with other ways of
        > presenting the material.
        >
        > remember- I'm not talking about how we teach the TDC but how the students
        > will take and use it themselves. That is what we're doing- teaching them
        > how to teach.
        >
        > Sandy OWL
        >
        > Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
        > Sandy,
        > I mean no disrespect, but from someone whose area experienced power
        > outages of Biblical proportions, I can assure you that I know about having
        > to deal with adversity. Nevertheless, I must tell you that we are very
        > blessed in our Council to have Tulane University as the site of our
        > Trainer
        > Development Conferences.
        > The state of the art equipment -- multi-media rooms with overhead
        > projectors, display screens that descend from the ceilings, computers with
        > Internet access, laptop hookups and, of course, chalk boards -- in the
        > large
        > arena style classrooms truly make our Trainer Development Conferences top
        > notch. Tulane provides this space to us at no charge with the proviso that
        > we keep the classrooms neat, clean up after ourselves, and turn out the
        > lights on the way out.
        > However, just because we are spoiled doesn't mean that we couldn't
        > respond to a less than desirable situation. Our TDC staffers are very
        > capable. Were we to experience a power outage, I am certain we would grab
        > pens and pads to instruct our group and would even conduct sessions by
        > candlelight if necessary.
        > I agree that we all need to have backup plans for any contingency
        > (Plans B and C, right?), but shouldn't we avail ourselves of what
        > resources
        > we may have to make training as effective and up to date as possible? As a
        > Microsoft Certified Engineer with A+ and other CompTIA certifications, I'm
        > also lucky that in the event of a fried CPU, I could repair it or replace
        > it
        > in just a few minutes. I'll bet that there are similar fellows in your
        > district or council who could assist you in your presentations.
        > While you are correct that not everyone can afford to have state of the
        > art equipment, you might be surprised at what institutions and people in
        > your area who are willing to support Scouting at little or no cost to your
        > Council. As an example, Tulane's Engineering School believes that it does
        > itself a favor by being civic minded and exposing the Scouting segment to
        > its facilities. It even allows our district to put on our annual Merit
        > Badge College there each January at no charge. Perhaps there is a college
        > or university with similar facilities in your area.
        >
        > Alan
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
        > Behalf Of Sandra Martens
        > Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 6:46 PM
        > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference
        >
        > yes, computer slide shows are great. but what happens when the power goes
        > or the cpu fries in the middle of the training? they need to know back up
        > methods of presenting material.
        >
        > and not all of us have the money to have state of the art equipment like
        > that.
        >
        > Sandy OWL
        >
        > Alan Smason <asmason@...> wrote:
        > Yes, Michael. It is certainly time. Whether the EDGE principles are
        > introduced or not, the present course work for the Trainer Development
        > Conference seems in serious need of updating. Our council trained 22 new
        > trainers this year, but a number of them attended because it was required
        > that they attend or staff a TDC within the past 3 years in order to serve
        > on
        > the staff for the upcoming Wood Badge course.
        > When the TDC was new to our council some six or so years ago, we drew
        > upwards of 90 trainers. Many of them never returned to attend another
        > conference because they saw nothing new being offered in the intervening
        > years.
        > Personally, I would prefer more time be spent on computer slide show
        > presentations rather than on white boards, chalk boards, flannel boards,
        > or
        > magnet boards. But as Seinfeld observed..."not that there's anything wrong
        > with that!"
        >
        > Happy Thanksgiving,
        >
        > Alan Smason
        > 2007 Trainer Development Conference
        > Southeaast Louisiana Council
        > -----Original Message-----
        > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
        > Behalf Of Michael Brown
        > Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:48 PM
        > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        > Subject: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference
        >
        > We have heard for several months that the Trainer Development Conference
        > was being reworked to use the EDGE principles of Wood Badge, NYLT, etc.
        >
        > We also have heard that (a) it would be out before summer 2007 (b) it
        > would be introduced at Philmonth (c) it would be out at or before Top
        > Hands
        > in the fall.
        >
        > We have yet to see it. The local Scout Shop knows nothing about it.
        >
        > What have you heard? Does anyone have it? Has anyone seen it? Impressions?
        > How did you get it?
        >
        > Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving!
        >
        > Michael Brown
        > San Francisco Bay Area Council
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
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        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
        >
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        > it now.
        >
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        >
        >
        >
        > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
        > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
        >
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        > Yahoo! Groups Links
        >
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        >
        >
      • Mark Landry
        Guys, all points are well taken. Alan, Tulane is great, as is the New Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, where we just held University of Scouting. But we
        Message 3 of 27 , Nov 23, 2007
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          Guys, all points are well taken. Alan, Tulane is great, as is the New
          Orleans Baptist Theological Seminary, where we just held University of
          Scouting. But we also have our council camp, Camp V-Bar at Salmen Scout
          Reservation, which is in the woods, north of Kiln, MS, where we run Intro to
          Outdoor Leader Skills, and, in conjunction, the new Webelos Outdoor Skills
          for Leaders. We do have good volunteers who have set up a LAN in our
          training center, and we have satellite Internet access. However, many
          trainings do not lend themselves to an indoor setting, and many of us want
          to get outside and be in the open air. So we also use flipcharts,
          newsprints, and other aids you do not have to plug in <g>. As scribe on
          our last Wood Badge course, Alan knows this.



          Alan's point is that there are resources that make offering the TDC easier
          on volunteers. The content of the course is, to put it mildly, a bit behind
          the times. I simply cannot remember ever using felt board, but I do use a
          portable whiteboard and newsprint flipcharts to teach Citizenship in the
          World at winter camp (the chapel where I teach most of the badge is too far
          to pick up the WiFi signal, but the boys do use the computers to get some of
          the information they need).



          So, as trainers, we may be called upon to train a Cub Scout pack committee,
          at their meeting place, the capabilities of which we will not know until we
          get there, as well as at places where we regularly hold training. Some will
          have Internet access, some will have electricity, and some will be far
          enough out that you may need to backpack your training materials <g>. No
          LCD projector for that one, but a simple binder with a few preprinted sheets
          might work. Or you may have to make due with whatever you can find. As I
          recall drawing a diagram is the dirt is still available.



          The point it that the TDC should prepare trainers to train, and teach them
          training skills that could be used in any of these situations. I am not
          sure that it does. Teaching the EDGE principals may not teach people to
          teach. Until the course changes, our good friend and kindergarten teacher,
          Terry, is in charge of the feltboard session.



          YIS,

          Mark C. Landry

          Training Chair

          Southeast Louisiana Council



          _____

          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Sandra Martens
          Sent: Friday, November 23, 2007 5:30 AM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference



          that's all fine and well, but if you're a boy teaching at NYLT and your
          power point goes out in the middle of a presentation and you are in a boy
          scout camp with no state of the art equipment, and no specialists who can
          get it up again, you need to know and be familiar with other ways of
          presenting the material.

          remember- I'm not talking about how we teach the TDC but how the students
          will take and use it themselves. That is what we're doing- teaching them how
          to teach.

          Sandy OWL

          Alan Smason <asmason@bellsouth. <mailto:asmason%40bellsouth.net> net> wrote:
          Sandy,
          I mean no disrespect, but from someone whose area experienced power
          outages of Biblical proportions, I can assure you that I know about having
          to deal with adversity. Nevertheless, I must tell you that we are very
          blessed in our Council to have Tulane University as the site of our Trainer
          Development Conferences.
          The state of the art equipment -- multi-media rooms with overhead
          projectors, display screens that descend from the ceilings, computers with
          Internet access, laptop hookups and, of course, chalk boards -- in the large
          arena style classrooms truly make our Trainer Development Conferences top
          notch. Tulane provides this space to us at no charge with the proviso that
          we keep the classrooms neat, clean up after ourselves, and turn out the
          lights on the way out.
          However, just because we are spoiled doesn't mean that we couldn't
          respond to a less than desirable situation. Our TDC staffers are very
          capable. Were we to experience a power outage, I am certain we would grab
          pens and pads to instruct our group and would even conduct sessions by
          candlelight if necessary.
          I agree that we all need to have backup plans for any contingency
          (Plans B and C, right?), but shouldn't we avail ourselves of what resources
          we may have to make training as effective and up to date as possible? As a
          Microsoft Certified Engineer with A+ and other CompTIA certifications, I'm
          also lucky that in the event of a fried CPU, I could repair it or replace it
          in just a few minutes. I'll bet that there are similar fellows in your
          district or council who could assist you in your presentations.
          While you are correct that not everyone can afford to have state of the
          art equipment, you might be surprised at what institutions and people in
          your area who are willing to support Scouting at little or no cost to your
          Council. As an example, Tulane's Engineering School believes that it does
          itself a favor by being civic minded and exposing the Scouting segment to
          its facilities. It even allows our district to put on our annual Merit
          Badge College there each January at no charge. Perhaps there is a college
          or university with similar facilities in your area.

          Alan
          -----Original Message-----
          From: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
          [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com]On
          Behalf Of Sandra Martens
          Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2007 6:46 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference

          yes, computer slide shows are great. but what happens when the power goes
          or the cpu fries in the middle of the training? they need to know back up
          methods of presenting material.

          and not all of us have the money to have state of the art equipment like
          that.

          Sandy OWL

          Alan Smason <asmason@bellsouth. <mailto:asmason%40bellsouth.net> net> wrote:
          Yes, Michael. It is certainly time. Whether the EDGE principles are
          introduced or not, the present course work for the Trainer Development
          Conference seems in serious need of updating. Our council trained 22 new
          trainers this year, but a number of them attended because it was required
          that they attend or staff a TDC within the past 3 years in order to serve
          on
          the staff for the upcoming Wood Badge course.
          When the TDC was new to our council some six or so years ago, we drew
          upwards of 90 trainers. Many of them never returned to attend another
          conference because they saw nothing new being offered in the intervening
          years.
          Personally, I would prefer more time be spent on computer slide show
          presentations rather than on white boards, chalk boards, flannel boards,
          or
          magnet boards. But as Seinfeld observed..."not that there's anything wrong
          with that!"

          Happy Thanksgiving,

          Alan Smason
          2007 Trainer Development Conference
          Southeaast Louisiana Council
          -----Original Message-----
          From: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
          [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com]On
          Behalf Of Michael Brown
          Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 8:48 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogrou <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ps.com
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Trainer Development Conference

          We have heard for several months that the Trainer Development Conference
          was being reworked to use the EDGE principles of Wood Badge, NYLT, etc.

          We also have heard that (a) it would be out before summer 2007 (b) it
          would be introduced at Philmonth (c) it would be out at or before Top
          Hands
          in the fall.

          We have yet to see it. The local Scout Shop knows nothing about it.

          What have you heard? Does anyone have it? Has anyone seen it? Impressions?
          How did you get it?

          Thanks! Happy Thanksgiving!

          Michael Brown
          San Francisco Bay Area Council

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Faun Guarino
          Sandy wrote: The word we got was that the TDC will stay as it is for Cub Scout trainers and the Trainer s edge is geared for NYLT trainers and Boy Scout
          Message 4 of 27 , Nov 23, 2007
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            Sandy wrote: The word we got was that the TDC will stay as it is for Cub
            Scout trainers and the Trainer's edge is geared for NYLT trainers and Boy
            Scout trainers. (they teach the EDGE process at NYLT and Woodbadge) they
            will both be done.





            Since Cub Scout trainers also serve on Wood Badge staff, why would they be
            left out of Trainer's edge? (What am I missing here?? Hope you can
            straighten me out! Thanks)



            Faun

            Long Island, NY



            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sandra Martens
            I don t know- that s just what they told us. Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die. Sandy OWL Faun Guarino wrote: Sandy
            Message 5 of 27 , Nov 23, 2007
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              I don't know- that's just what they told us. Ours is not to reason why, ours is but to do or die.
              Sandy OWL

              Faun Guarino <fguarino@...> wrote:
              Sandy wrote: The word we got was that the TDC will stay as it is for Cub
              Scout trainers and the Trainer's edge is geared for NYLT trainers and Boy
              Scout trainers. (they teach the EDGE process at NYLT and Woodbadge) they
              will both be done.

              Since Cub Scout trainers also serve on Wood Badge staff, why would they be
              left out of Trainer's edge? (What am I missing here?? Hope you can
              straighten me out! Thanks)

              Faun

              Long Island, NY

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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            • Ken
              I had the pleasure of being in the 1st of 4 pilots of the Trainers EDGE course last June, what a way to spend my birthday :- As presented to us, it is an
              Message 6 of 27 , Nov 24, 2007
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                I had the pleasure of being in the 1st of 4 pilots of the Trainers
                EDGE course last June, what a way to spend my birthday :-> As
                presented to us, it is an advanced trainer course, not a replacement
                for TDC, but the next level after TDC. The target audience is the
                NYLT & Wood Badge staff. Personally it would be good for the TC staff
                as well. The development team was to take the feedback from our group
                and modify the material before he next pilot in late July or August.
                The material was very well presented by our staff.

                One comment in this message thread confused me. First, one respondent
                implied that only their Cub Scout trainers have being going through
                TDC instead of all trainers. All trainers today should have bene
                taking TDC since it came out the training box back in '01. This
                included Boy Scout, Varsty & Venturing Training. Yes, Pack Trainers
                are encouraged to attend the course, but that does not mean that other
                trainers were to stop taking the course. It only added an additional
                audience. In fact, TDC has been a requirement for Wood Badge staff
                members in out area since the 21st Century WB came out.

                Somebody else commented about focusing more on PowerPoint, and not
                flip charts, flannel boards, etc. I personally disagree with that
                statement for 3 reasons. First, not every trainer is good at using
                PowerPoint and technology in general. Second, technology is not
                always available. For example, part of the 2nd weekend of Wood Badge
                is taught in the field, where power should not be available. Other
                locations may not have the fancy resources that some of us use at work
                all the time. And third, we need to change up our presentations and
                use a variety to presentation techniques for out participants. They
                do not all learn the same way, and some need variety to not get bored
                and tune out. This is why our TDC staff use a variety of techniques
                to demonstrate them, and shw the benefit of shanging them up during
                the day. Don't forget the old adage that too much of a good thing is
                not good.

                I hope that you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday. This group
                is one of the things I am thnakful for, especially my Wood Badge
                sister on the group. Have a wonderful Christmas Season.

                Yours in Scouting,
                Ken
              • Sandra Martens
                Ken- What I said was the EDGE course people told me that the TDC will be for CS trainers and the EDGE for BS trainers and youth trainers when it comes out.
                Message 7 of 27 , Nov 24, 2007
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                  Ken-

                  What I said was the EDGE course people told me that the TDC will be for CS trainers and the EDGE for BS trainers and youth trainers when it comes out. They may have mis-informed us, but that is what they said.

                  TDC now is for all trainers- in fact, our camp staff and NYLT youth trainers go through it every year.

                  Sandy OWL

                  Ken <krtodd@...> wrote:
                  I had the pleasure of being in the 1st of 4 pilots of the Trainers
                  EDGE course last June, what a way to spend my birthday :-> As
                  presented to us, it is an advanced trainer course, not a replacement
                  for TDC, but the next level after TDC. The target audience is the
                  NYLT & Wood Badge staff. Personally it would be good for the TC staff
                  as well. The development team was to take the feedback from our group
                  and modify the material before he next pilot in late July or August.
                  The material was very well presented by our staff.

                  One comment in this message thread confused me. First, one respondent
                  implied that only their Cub Scout trainers have being going through
                  TDC instead of all trainers. All trainers today should have bene
                  taking TDC since it came out the training box back in '01. This
                  included Boy Scout, Varsty & Venturing Training. Yes, Pack Trainers
                  are encouraged to attend the course, but that does not mean that other
                  trainers were to stop taking the course. It only added an additional
                  audience. In fact, TDC has been a requirement for Wood Badge staff
                  members in out area since the 21st Century WB came out.

                  Somebody else commented about focusing more on PowerPoint, and not
                  flip charts, flannel boards, etc. I personally disagree with that
                  statement for 3 reasons. First, not every trainer is good at using
                  PowerPoint and technology in general. Second, technology is not
                  always available. For example, part of the 2nd weekend of Wood Badge
                  is taught in the field, where power should not be available. Other
                  locations may not have the fancy resources that some of us use at work
                  all the time. And third, we need to change up our presentations and
                  use a variety to presentation techniques for out participants. They
                  do not all learn the same way, and some need variety to not get bored
                  and tune out. This is why our TDC staff use a variety of techniques
                  to demonstrate them, and shw the benefit of shanging them up during
                  the day. Don't forget the old adage that too much of a good thing is
                  not good.

                  I hope that you all had a wonderful Thanksgiving holiday. This group
                  is one of the things I am thnakful for, especially my Wood Badge
                  sister on the group. Have a wonderful Christmas Season.

                  Yours in Scouting,
                  Ken






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                • Ken
                  It will definitely be interesting to see how The Trainers EDGE is implemented next year as all the feedback from the pilots are incorporated. Sounds like we
                  Message 8 of 27 , Nov 29, 2007
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                    It will definitely be interesting to see how The Trainers EDGE is
                    implemented next year as all the feedback from the pilots are
                    incorporated. Sounds like we have received different information from
                    the developers as the pilots went on.

                    --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Martens <sandyowl1@...> wrote:
                    >
                    > Ken-
                    >
                    > What I said was the EDGE course people told me that the TDC will
                    be for CS trainers and the EDGE for BS trainers and youth trainers
                    when it comes out. They may have mis-informed us, but that is what
                    they said.
                    >
                    > TDC now is for all trainers- in fact, our camp staff and NYLT
                    youth trainers go through it every year.
                    >
                    > Sandy OWL
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