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Re: [Scouter_T] Quagmire

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  • Peter Mullaney
    Connie et al, The main point of my P.S. (other than assuaging my ego - i.e. I know that ;-) was the emphasis that Pack camping requires a trained person
    Message 1 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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      Connie et al,

      The main point of my "P.S." (other than assuaging my ego - i.e. 'I know
      that' ;-) was the emphasis that Pack camping requires a trained person but
      WEBELOS camping does not require ANY training. I know people that are
      offended by this policy.
      Happy Thanksgiving to All,
      Pete M.
      (no harm, no foul!)

      On 11/20/07, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:
      >
      > PS. I don't know what folks know or don't so please don't get offended or
      > defensive if someone states something you know. No offense is
      > meant..........this is where email fails us........
      >


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Connie Knie
      Don t you mean No harm no Fowl? ..........sorry could not resist............. Not too sure why folks should be upset just because National is finally making
      Message 2 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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        Don't you mean "No harm no Fowl?"..........sorry could not resist.............

        Not too sure why folks should be upset just because National is finally making some training mandatory..........oh well never gonna make everyone happy.............

        Have a great holiday...........

        Peter Mullaney <mullaney@...> wrote:
        Connie et al,

        The main point of my "P.S." (other than assuaging my ego - i.e. 'I know
        that' ;-) was the emphasis that Pack camping requires a trained person but
        WEBELOS camping does not require ANY training. I know people that are
        offended by this policy.
        Happy Thanksgiving to All,
        Pete M.
        (no harm, no foul!)



        connie

        SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Peter Mullaney
        The offense was more a case of the other training not being mandatory. Pete M. ... [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        Message 3 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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          The offense was more a case of the other training not being mandatory.
          Pete M.

          On 11/20/07, Connie Knie <cknie23100@...> wrote:
          >
          > Don't you mean "No harm no Fowl?"..........sorry could not
          > resist.............
          >
          > Not too sure why folks should be upset just because National is finally
          > making some training mandatory..........oh well never gonna make everyone
          > happy.............
          >
          > Have a great holiday...........
          >
          > Peter Mullaney <mullaney@... <mullaney%40gmail.com>> wrote:
          > Connie et al,
          >
          > The main point of my "P.S." (other than assuaging my ego - i.e. 'I know
          > that' ;-) was the emphasis that Pack camping requires a trained person but
          > WEBELOS camping does not require ANY training. I know people that are
          > offended by this policy.
          > Happy Thanksgiving to All,
          > Pete M.
          > (no harm, no foul!)
          >
          > connie
          >
          >
          >


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Richard Damon
          I can actually see some of the reasoning to require training for Pack campout but not Webelos campouts. A pack campout could easily have 25-30 boys grade 1st
          Message 4 of 20 , Nov 20, 2007
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            I can actually see some of the reasoning to require training for Pack
            campout but not Webelos campouts. A pack campout could easily have 25-30
            boys grade 1st through 5th, plus their parents and possibly siblings. Some
            training on this size event makes sense, and not all the rules are
            immediately obvious (but this happens with lots of thing in the BSA ;)



            A Webelos Den campout has probably 6-8 boys, 4th to 5th grade (and likely
            all the same grade), each with an adult responsible to supervise them. This
            is a lot more manageable.



            I agree, it would be nice if everyone was able to take all the training that
            would be useful, but I am realistic in knowing it isn't going to happen.



            Richard Damon

            Pack Trainer, Pack 306

            Scout Master Troop 302

            Arlington MA

            District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston Minuteman Council

            I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
            NE-I-244)

            | >>>-------------------> |



            Peter Mullaney <mullaney@... <mailto:mullaney%40gmail.com> > wrote:
            Connie et al,

            The main point of my "P.S." (other than assuaging my ego - i.e. 'I know
            that' ;-) was the emphasis that Pack camping requires a trained person but
            WEBELOS camping does not require ANY training. I know people that are
            offended by this policy.
            Happy Thanksgiving to All,
            Pete M.
            (no harm, no foul!)

            connie

            SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Connie Knie
            I couldn t agree more that BALOO being mandatory is a good thing. With Webelos at least you have a program pretty set as far as activity pins and such and
            Message 5 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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              I couldn't agree more that BALOO being mandatory is a good thing. With Webelos at least you have a program pretty set as far as activity pins and such and hopefully the leader has been around long enough to make it work out well.........

              Throw those siblings and totally uneducated parents in there and that is a recipe for disaster.......LOL

              I am really torn about wether training needs to be mandatory...........when I became a GSUSA leader I was shocked by all of the training that is demanded. They might go a bit overboard, but they are actually toning it down a bit.

              I mean just because you take it, does not mean you will use it.................

              Richard Damon <richard@...> wrote:
              I can actually see some of the reasoning to require training for Pack
              campout but not Webelos campouts. A pack campout could easily have 25-30
              boys grade 1st through 5th, plus their parents and possibly siblings.

              A Webelos Den campout has probably 6-8 boys, 4th to 5th grade (and likely
              all the same grade), each with an adult responsible to supervise them. This
              is a lot more manageable.






              connie

              SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerry Moon
              Richard One Fox/Staffer to another - I understand your realistic approach to training (internally, at least) but in saying that, I hope that you don t convey
              Message 6 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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                Richard

                One Fox/Staffer to another - I understand your "realistic" approach
                to training (internally, at least) but in saying that, I hope that
                you don't convey that perspective to your people - I promote
                training at every opportunity to every leader and resist excuses as
                to why it can't be done. The last thing the leader population needs
                is a training chair that justifies not having 100% trained leaders
                as being an impossible goal. Yes, the challenge is daunting, but I
                resist calling it unsurmountable. The resisters just need a little
                more convincing, that's all. I understand that for a handful, by the
                time I "sell the car" their boy has aged out of the program. Never
                say never.

                Gerry Moon
                Orlando. FL

                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Richard Damon" <richard@...>
                wrote:
                >
                > I can actually see some of the reasoning to require training for
                Pack
                > campout but not Webelos campouts. A pack campout could easily have
                25-30
                > boys grade 1st through 5th, plus their parents and possibly
                siblings. Some
                > training on this size event makes sense, and not all the rules are
                > immediately obvious (but this happens with lots of thing in the
                BSA ;)
                >
                >
                >
                > A Webelos Den campout has probably 6-8 boys, 4th to 5th grade
                (and likely
                > all the same grade), each with an adult responsible to supervise
                them. This
                > is a lot more manageable.
                >
                >
                >
                > I agree, it would be nice if everyone was able to take all the
                training that
                > would be useful, but I am realistic in knowing it isn't going to
                happen.
                >
                >
                >
                > Richard Damon
                >
                > Pack Trainer, Pack 306
                >
                > Scout Master Troop 302
                >
                > Arlington MA
                >
                > District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston
                Minuteman Council
                >
                > I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
                > NE-I-244)
                >
                > | >>>-------------------> |
                >
                >
                >
                > Peter Mullaney <mullaney@... <mailto:mullaney%40gmail.com> > wrote:
                > Connie et al,
                >
                > The main point of my "P.S." (other than assuaging my ego - i.e. 'I
                know
                > that' ;-) was the emphasis that Pack camping requires a trained
                person but
                > WEBELOS camping does not require ANY training. I know people that
                are
                > offended by this policy.
                > Happy Thanksgiving to All,
                > Pete M.
                > (no harm, no foul!)
                >
                > connie
                >
                > SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • Richard Damon
                Yes, I encourage people to take as much training as possible. What I won t do is say they NEED to take something to do something that isn t required, I will
                Message 7 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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                  Yes, I encourage people to take as much training as possible. What I won't
                  do is say they NEED to take something to do something that isn't required, I
                  will still talk it up an encourage them to go. If you straight talk to them,
                  they will trust you.



                  Richard Damon

                  Pack Trainer, Pack 306

                  Scout Master Troop 302

                  Arlington MA

                  District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston Minuteman Council

                  I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
                  NE-I-244)

                  | >>>-------------------> |







                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Gerry Moon
                  Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2007 10:02 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Quagmire



                  Richard

                  One Fox/Staffer to another - I understand your "realistic" approach
                  to training (internally, at least) but in saying that, I hope that
                  you don't convey that perspective to your people - I promote
                  training at every opportunity to every leader and resist excuses as
                  to why it can't be done. The last thing the leader population needs
                  is a training chair that justifies not having 100% trained leaders
                  as being an impossible goal. Yes, the challenge is daunting, but I
                  resist calling it unsurmountable. The resisters just need a little
                  more convincing, that's all. I understand that for a handful, by the
                  time I "sell the car" their boy has aged out of the program. Never
                  say never.

                  Gerry Moon
                  Orlando. FL

                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ,
                  "Richard Damon" <richard@...>
                  wrote:
                  >
                  > I can actually see some of the reasoning to require training for
                  Pack
                  > campout but not Webelos campouts. A pack campout could easily have
                  25-30
                  > boys grade 1st through 5th, plus their parents and possibly
                  siblings. Some
                  > training on this size event makes sense, and not all the rules are
                  > immediately obvious (but this happens with lots of thing in the
                  BSA ;)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > A Webelos Den campout has probably 6-8 boys, 4th to 5th grade
                  (and likely
                  > all the same grade), each with an adult responsible to supervise
                  them. This
                  > is a lot more manageable.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I agree, it would be nice if everyone was able to take all the
                  training that
                  > would be useful, but I am realistic in knowing it isn't going to
                  happen.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Richard Damon
                  >
                  > Pack Trainer, Pack 306
                  >
                  > Scout Master Troop 302
                  >
                  > Arlington MA
                  >
                  > District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston
                  Minuteman Council
                  >
                  > I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
                  > NE-I-244)
                  >
                  > | >>>-------------------> |
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Peter Mullaney <mullaney@... <mailto:mullaney%40gmail.com> > wrote:
                  > Connie et al,
                  >
                  > The main point of my "P.S." (other than assuaging my ego - i.e. 'I
                  know
                  > that' ;-) was the emphasis that Pack camping requires a trained
                  person but
                  > WEBELOS camping does not require ANY training. I know people that
                  are
                  > offended by this policy.
                  > Happy Thanksgiving to All,
                  > Pete M.
                  > (no harm, no foul!)
                  >
                  > connie
                  >
                  > SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                  > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • ed5870@aol.com
                  In a message dated 11/20/2007 2:32:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, cknie23100@sbcglobal.net writes: I have not taught at OWLT for a couple of seasons but the
                  Message 8 of 20 , Nov 21, 2007
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                    In a message dated 11/20/2007 2:32:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    cknie23100@... writes:

                    I have not taught at OWLT for a couple of seasons but the more I think of it
                    the more I believe we combined parts of ours as well........I h


                    We teach it as a stand alone. I feel it runs much smoother that way.



                    **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                    products.
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                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Connie Knie
                    I believe it does too. Ours is more from a lack of staff.................... ed5870@aol.com wrote: In a message dated 11/20/2007 2:32:55 P.M. Eastern Standard
                    Message 9 of 20 , Nov 22, 2007
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                      I believe it does too. Ours is more from a lack of staff....................

                      ed5870@... wrote:
                      In a message dated 11/20/2007 2:32:55 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                      cknie23100@... writes:

                      I have not taught at OWLT for a couple of seasons but the more I think of it
                      the more I believe we combined parts of ours as well........I h


                      We teach it as a stand alone. I feel it runs much smoother that way.



                      **************************************Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest
                      products.
                      (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop00030000000001)


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                      connie

                      SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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