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re: cub scout training

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  • Faun Witz Guarino '71
    is there any particular order in which the Cub Scout leader training is to be taken., ie, can Baloo training take place before Cub Scout Leader Specific.
    Message 1 of 23 , Nov 7 3:47 PM
      "is there any particular order in which the Cub Scout leader training
      is to be taken., ie, can Baloo training take place before Cub Scout
      Leader Specific."

      Baloo training, while open to everyone, was originally designed to
      train pack volunteers OTHER than the uniformed leadership. The idea
      was to lift some of the burden off Cubmasters and den leaders in
      planning the pack's outdoor program and running pack overnights by
      getting some of those uninvolved parents involved. So you may have
      people who will never take any other training attending this course.
      (Since National changed the requirement calling for a Baloo-trained
      leader to attend every campout, many CMs and DLs are signing up as
      well.)

      We have recommended for quite a few years now that leaders take their
      cub specific training before New Leader Essentials. Too many leaders
      were leaving the Essentials classes (after arranging for babysitters,
      taking time from work, etc) confused and ill-equipped for their dens.
      While Essentials has some good "stuff" that covers the entire
      scouting program, all that knowledge is overwhelming to the new to
      Scouting leader who just wants to plan the next meeting!



      Faun

      Long Island, NY
    • Margo Mead
      Has anyone been able to find anything more about the newest Cub Scout Training Continuum? (The one they discussed in the September Cubcast on
      Message 2 of 23 , Nov 7 4:20 PM
        Has anyone been able to find anything more about the newest Cub Scout
        Training Continuum? (The one they discussed in the September Cubcast on
        Scouting.org-which, BTW, has leaders taking NLE last!)



        Margo

        Portland, OR



        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Faun Witz Guarino '71
        Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:48 PM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Scouter_T] re: cub scout training



        "is there any particular order in which the Cub Scout leader training
        is to be taken., ie, can Baloo training take place before Cub Scout
        Leader Specific."





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Sandra Martens
        talked with someone from Natl Cub Scout training just a few days ago about something else and he said it s ready to launch and should be out this spring. This
        Message 3 of 23 , Nov 7 5:08 PM
          talked with someone from Natl Cub Scout training just a few days ago about something else and he said it's ready to launch and should be out this spring. This is what he emailed me about it.
          We have a new leader specific training program that is about to launch. The revised leader specific training has been built around a significant amount of research from new and experienced leaders. Once your council training team has the opportunity to present the new training, I believe you will agree that the task specific training will better prepare all Cub Scout volunteers to better do their job on a weekly ands monthly basis.

          Sandy OWL

          Margo Mead <meadclan@...> wrote:
          Has anyone been able to find anything more about the newest Cub Scout
          Training Continuum? (The one they discussed in the September Cubcast on
          Scouting.org-which, BTW, has leaders taking NLE last!)

          Margo

          Portland, OR

          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Faun Witz Guarino '71
          Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:48 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: [Scouter_T] re: cub scout training

          "is there any particular order in which the Cub Scout leader training
          is to be taken., ie, can Baloo training take place before Cub Scout
          Leader Specific."

          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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        • Margo Mead
          Seems kind of silly that they devoted so much time to it in the September Podcast, acting like it was out and already being used, and it really wasn t? I m
          Message 4 of 23 , Nov 7 5:14 PM
            Seems kind of silly that they devoted so much time to it in the September
            Podcast, acting like it was out and already being used, and it really
            wasn't? I'm excited about it, I just wish they wouldn't have teased us like
            that!



            Margo



            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
            Of Sandra Martens
            Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:09 PM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] re: cub scout training



            talked with someone from Natl Cub Scout training just a few days ago about
            something else and he said it's ready to launch and should be out this
            spring. This is what he emailed me about it.
            We have a new leader specific training program that is about to launch. The
            revised leader specific training has been built around a significant amount
            of research from new and experienced leaders. Once your council training
            team has the opportunity to present the new training, I believe you will
            agree that the task specific training will better prepare all Cub Scout
            volunteers to better do their job on a weekly ands monthly basis.

            Sandy OWL








            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Sandra Martens
            I figure if it comes out this spring, we ll be lucky to see and use it next fall. My council is very slow at getting things- I usually have to prod them
            Message 5 of 23 , Nov 7 5:39 PM
              I figure if it comes out this spring, we'll be lucky to see and use it next fall. My council is very slow at getting things- I usually have to prod them because they don't even know about it.

              Sandy OWL

              Margo Mead <meadclan@...> wrote:
              Seems kind of silly that they devoted so much time to it in the September
              Podcast, acting like it was out and already being used, and it really
              wasn't? I'm excited about it, I just wish they wouldn't have teased us like
              that!

              Margo

              From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Sandra Martens
              Sent: Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:09 PM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] re: cub scout training

              talked with someone from Natl Cub Scout training just a few days ago about
              something else and he said it's ready to launch and should be out this
              spring. This is what he emailed me about it.
              We have a new leader specific training program that is about to launch. The
              revised leader specific training has been built around a significant amount
              of research from new and experienced leaders. Once your council training
              team has the opportunity to present the new training, I believe you will
              agree that the task specific training will better prepare all Cub Scout
              volunteers to better do their job on a weekly ands monthly basis.

              Sandy OWL

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dan Hammond, Sr.
              Faun wrote in part: We have recommended for quite a few years now that leaders take their cub specific training before New Leader Essentials. Too many
              Message 6 of 23 , Nov 8 11:23 AM
                Faun wrote in part:
                <snip>"We have recommended for quite a few years now that leaders take their
                cub specific training before New Leader Essentials. Too many leaders
                were leaving the Essentials classes (after arranging for babysitters,
                taking time from work, etc) confused and ill-equipped for their dens.
                While Essentials has some good "stuff" that covers the entire
                scouting program, all that knowledge is overwhelming to the new to
                Scouting leader who just wants to plan the next meeting!"

                Faun
                Long Island, NY

                If new leaders actually take fast start training on the national e-learning site before they come for classroom training, they will receive a very good overview of how to run a meeting. Unlike old versions of Fast Start, the one that BSA has out there now is actually useful.


                Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD)
                Leavenworth, KS, Army Major(Ret), Overtrained Scout Leader,
                Kaw District Training Chairman, NRA Life Member
                CM P3001, SM T366
                |<--W-W-W--<<<| Mic-O-Say HW "Big Quick Steel"
                I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)
                And a good old staffer too (C-34-04) (C-38-06)

                Cheerful Service; because it's the right thing to do

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              • Fred Goodwin, CMA
                ... I ve heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell my new
                Message 7 of 23 , Nov 8 11:49 AM
                  > Posted by: "Faun Witz Guarino '71" fguarino@...
                  > Date: Wed Nov 7, 2007 3:47 pm ((PST))
                  >
                  > We have recommended for quite a few years now that leaders take
                  > their cub specific training before New Leader Essentials. Too many
                  > leaders were leaving the Essentials classes (after arranging for
                  > babysitters, taking time from work, etc) confused and ill-equipped
                  > for their dens.

                  I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of
                  managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell
                  my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview of the
                  entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.

                  I remind them that the purpose of NLE is *not* to teach them how to run
                  a den meeting, pack meeting, or committee meeting. They should've
                  learned that by watching the Fast Start Videos (or doing Fast Start
                  online).

                  Then the clincher: I ask them how many have actually done the Fast
                  Start training for their position, and invariably, few, if any, hands
                  go up. I lay that squarely on the shoulders of the pack leadership.
                  My Council does not make Fast Start a pre-requisite for
                  position-specific training, and even if we did, I doubt that would
                  change anything.

                  As others have suggested, maybe we should start our position-specific
                  training by showing the Fast Start video relevant for each position --
                  that's a good idea, and one I'll try the next time I'm called upon to
                  lead a position-specifc session.

                  Now that National has allegedly approved reversing the sequence of NLE
                  and position-specific, I wonder how many leaders will skip NLE thinking
                  they've heard everything they need to do their job?

                  Fred Goodwin
                  NLE instructor and former district training chair
                • Jim Thompson
                  For what it s worth, here s what the October Scouting magazine says on p. 29: (The Cub Scout Division now recommends that New Leader Essentials take place
                  Message 8 of 23 , Nov 8 12:57 PM
                    For what it's worth, here's what the October "Scouting" magazine says
                    on p. 29:
                    "(The Cub Scout Division now recommends that New Leader Essentials
                    take place after Leader Specific Training.)"
                    That's it. No "official" announcement, just a parenthetical aside
                    more or less buried in a story about training.
                    Jim Thompson
                    Albuquerque, NM


                    We have recommended for quite a few years now that leaders take their
                    cub specific training before New Leader Essentials. Too many leaders
                    were leaving the Essentials classes (after arranging for babysitters,
                    taking time from work, etc) confused and ill-equipped for their dens.
                    While Essentials has some good "stuff" that covers the entire
                    scouting program, all that knowledge is overwhelming to the new to
                    Scouting leader who just wants to plan the next meeting!

                    Faun

                    Long Island, NY





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Sandra Martens
                    the official will probably come out with the new training syllabus in the spring. Since the change in sequence goes along with the syllabus it only makes
                    Message 9 of 23 , Nov 8 1:07 PM
                      the "official" will probably come out with the new training syllabus in the spring. Since the change in sequence goes along with the syllabus it only makes sense to wait.

                      Sandy OWL

                      Jim Thompson <jimthompsn@...> wrote:
                      For what it's worth, here's what the October "Scouting" magazine says
                      on p. 29:
                      "(The Cub Scout Division now recommends that New Leader Essentials
                      take place after Leader Specific Training.)"
                      That's it. No "official" announcement, just a parenthetical aside
                      more or less buried in a story about training.
                      Jim Thompson
                      Albuquerque, NM

                      We have recommended for quite a few years now that leaders take their
                      cub specific training before New Leader Essentials. Too many leaders
                      were leaving the Essentials classes (after arranging for babysitters,
                      taking time from work, etc) confused and ill-equipped for their dens.
                      While Essentials has some good "stuff" that covers the entire
                      scouting program, all that knowledge is overwhelming to the new to
                      Scouting leader who just wants to plan the next meeting!

                      Faun

                      Long Island, NY

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • bill smith
                      A couple problems here: I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in the past, but it
                      Message 10 of 23 , Nov 8 6:16 PM
                        A couple problems here:
                        I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for
                        den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in
                        the past, but it still doesn't do a good enough job to be a
                        stand alone preparation for a new leader to lead den meetings.

                        Many den leaders first learn of Fast Start when they attend
                        NLE or CLS. Too late! We are not that efficient at
                        communicating and I can't imagine that we ever will be,
                        even considering the high pay rates for our volunteers.

                        Last June I talked to a Director of Field Services who
                        related his observations of a focus group consisting of
                        first year den leaders. The consensus of the group was
                        that even CLS didn't prepare them sufficiently. It was only
                        after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                        to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                        new training whenever it shows up.

                        Leading a den is one of the toughest jobs in all of Scouting.
                        We should never underestimate how much preparation,
                        support and help that this job needs to succeed.

                        bill smith
                        tampa fl

                        Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of
                        > managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell
                        > my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview of the
                        > entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.
                        >
                        > ,_._,___


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Sandra Martens
                        here here! i agree. i just finished completing a resource cd for a pow wow/rendezvous on Saturday. As i finished sections I emailed them to the respective
                        Message 11 of 23 , Nov 8 6:22 PM
                          here here! i agree.

                          i just finished completing a resource cd for a pow wow/rendezvous on Saturday. As i finished sections I emailed them to the respective instructors to check over. One of them, CS ceremonies, emailed back and said thanks for adding all the ceremonies and stuff. he forgot how hard it is to be new and how new leaders are looking for anything there is out there to help them. maybe more of us old scouters need to remember that.(sorry about the bad capitalization- my key keeps getting stuck and i'm too lazy to back track and fix it)

                          Sandy OWL



                          bill smith <wt492@...> wrote:
                          A couple problems here:
                          I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for
                          den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in
                          the past, but it still doesn't do a good enough job to be a
                          stand alone preparation for a new leader to lead den meetings.

                          Many den leaders first learn of Fast Start when they attend
                          NLE or CLS. Too late! We are not that efficient at
                          communicating and I can't imagine that we ever will be,
                          even considering the high pay rates for our volunteers.

                          Last June I talked to a Director of Field Services who
                          related his observations of a focus group consisting of
                          first year den leaders. The consensus of the group was
                          that even CLS didn't prepare them sufficiently. It was only
                          after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                          to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                          new training whenever it shows up.

                          Leading a den is one of the toughest jobs in all of Scouting.
                          We should never underestimate how much preparation,
                          support and help that this job needs to succeed.

                          bill smith
                          tampa fl

                          Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of
                          > managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell
                          > my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview of the
                          > entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.
                          >
                          > ,_._,___

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Marian McQuaid
                          Hey Sandy, How much will it cost to get a copy of your CD? Where do I send a check? Marian Boston Minuteman Council ... From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Message 12 of 23 , Nov 9 4:15 AM
                            Hey Sandy,
                            How much will it cost to get a copy of your CD? Where do I send a check?

                            Marian
                            Boston Minuteman Council

                            -----Original Message-----
                            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
                            Behalf Of Sandra Martens
                            Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:22 PM
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: cub scout training


                            here here! i agree.

                            i just finished completing a resource cd for a pow wow/rendezvous on
                            Saturday. As i finished sections I emailed them to the respective
                            instructors to check over. One of them, CS ceremonies, emailed back and said
                            thanks for adding all the ceremonies and stuff. he forgot how hard it is to
                            be new and how new leaders are looking for anything there is out there to
                            help them. maybe more of us old scouters need to remember that.(sorry
                            about the bad capitalization- my key keeps getting stuck and i'm too lazy to
                            back track and fix it)

                            Sandy OWL



                            bill smith <wt492@...> wrote:
                            A couple problems here:
                            I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for
                            den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in
                            the past, but it still doesn't do a good enough job to be a
                            stand alone preparation for a new leader to lead den meetings.

                            Many den leaders first learn of Fast Start when they attend
                            NLE or CLS. Too late! We are not that efficient at
                            communicating and I can't imagine that we ever will be,
                            even considering the high pay rates for our volunteers.

                            Last June I talked to a Director of Field Services who
                            related his observations of a focus group consisting of
                            first year den leaders. The consensus of the group was
                            that even CLS didn't prepare them sufficiently. It was only
                            after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                            to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                            new training whenever it shows up.

                            Leading a den is one of the toughest jobs in all of Scouting.
                            We should never underestimate how much preparation,
                            support and help that this job needs to succeed.

                            bill smith
                            tampa fl

                            Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:
                            >
                            >
                            >
                            > I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of
                            > managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell
                            > my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview of the
                            > entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.
                            >
                            > ,_._,___

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





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                          • Richard Damon
                            Sandy, I am working on a similar project for next weekend and would LOVE to get some of your ideas. Any way you could email some of this to me (or links of the
                            Message 13 of 23 , Nov 9 4:48 AM
                              Sandy,

                              I am working on a similar project for next weekend and would LOVE to get
                              some of your ideas. Any way you could email some of this to me (or links of
                              the stuff is online). I have a big mail box so don't worry about that.



                              Richard Damon

                              Pack Trainer, Pack 306

                              Scout Master Troop 302

                              Arlington MA

                              District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston Minuteman Council

                              I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
                              NE-I-244)

                              | >>>-------------------> |



                              From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                              Of Sandra Martens
                              Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:22 PM
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: cub scout training



                              here here! i agree.

                              i just finished completing a resource cd for a pow wow/rendezvous on
                              Saturday. As i finished sections I emailed them to the respective
                              instructors to check over. One of them, CS ceremonies, emailed back and said
                              thanks for adding all the ceremonies and stuff. he forgot how hard it is to
                              be new and how new leaders are looking for anything there is out there to
                              help them. maybe more of us old scouters need to remember that.(sorry about
                              the bad capitalization- my key keeps getting stuck and i'm too lazy to back
                              track and fix it)

                              Sandy OWL



                              bill smith <wt492@... <mailto:wt492%40wtsmith.com> > wrote:
                              A couple problems here:
                              I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for
                              den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in
                              the past, but it still doesn't do a good enough job to be a
                              stand alone preparation for a new leader to lead den meetings.

                              Many den leaders first learn of Fast Start when they attend
                              NLE or CLS. Too late! We are not that efficient at
                              communicating and I can't imagine that we ever will be,
                              even considering the high pay rates for our volunteers.

                              Last June I talked to a Director of Field Services who
                              related his observations of a focus group consisting of
                              first year den leaders. The consensus of the group was
                              that even CLS didn't prepare them sufficiently. It was only
                              after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                              to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                              new training whenever it shows up.

                              Leading a den is one of the toughest jobs in all of Scouting.
                              We should never underestimate how much preparation,
                              support and help that this job needs to succeed.

                              bill smith
                              tampa fl

                              Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of
                              > managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell
                              > my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview of the
                              > entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.
                              >
                              > ,_._,___

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                              __________________________________________________
                              Do You Yahoo!?
                              Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                              http://mail.yahoo.com

                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Sandra Martens
                              Richard. the cd is 230 MB, 107 folders, and 833 files. It would take forever to email to you. below are the sessions I cover. If there are specific ones,
                              Message 14 of 23 , Nov 9 6:29 AM
                                Richard. the cd is 230 MB, 107 folders, and 833 files. It would take forever to email to you. below are the sessions I cover. If there are specific ones, email me out of group and ask for them. I'll try to get them to you fast.
                                CUB SCOUT COURSES A Good Turn Daily Bear Den Planning Beyond the Badge Blue & Gold Banquet Cooking for Cubs NEW Crafts Creative Campfires Cub Camping Adventures Cub Ceremonies Cub Scout Control Derby Days Dog Days of Summer Duty to God NEW Flag Etiquette Games Galore Leatherwork Pack Finances NEW Pack Meeting in Action Pack Meeting Programs NEW Scout Safety Share the Cub Adventure Shenanigans Slides and Doodles Tiger Cub Trail Tying It All Up Walking Sticks WeBeLoS Dutch Oven Cooking NEW WeBeLoS - Community WeBeLoS - Mental Skills WeBeLoS - Outdoor WeBeLoS - Physical Skills WeBeLoS - Technology Webelos - The 18 Month Plan NEW Webelos Overnighter NEW Webelos to Scout Transition Wolf Den Planning Woodworking BOY SCOUT COURSES "To Help Other People at all Times"
                                Backpacking on a Budget Basic Knots NEW Beyond the Badge - Boy Scouts Boy Scout Ceremonies Camp - Wisconsin Dutch Oven Cooking NEW Duty to God NEW Flag Etiquette Geocaching High Adventure Overview NEW Lashings NEW Order of the Arrow Orienteering Patrol Method Project First Class NEW Scout Cooking Scout Safety Scoutmaster Conference / BOR Share the Boy Scout Adventure The Senior Patrol Leader Trail to Eagle Troop Calendar Planning Unscoutlike Behavior Winter Camping Wisconsin Waterways NEW

                                Sandy OWL


                                Richard Damon <richard@...> wrote:
                                Sandy,

                                I am working on a similar project for next weekend and would LOVE to get
                                some of your ideas. Any way you could email some of this to me (or links of
                                the stuff is online). I have a big mail box so don't worry about that.

                                Richard Damon

                                Pack Trainer, Pack 306

                                Scout Master Troop 302

                                Arlington MA

                                District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston Minuteman Council

                                I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
                                NE-I-244)

                                | >>>-------------------> |

                                From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                Of Sandra Martens
                                Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:22 PM
                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: cub scout training

                                here here! i agree.

                                i just finished completing a resource cd for a pow wow/rendezvous on
                                Saturday. As i finished sections I emailed them to the respective
                                instructors to check over. One of them, CS ceremonies, emailed back and said
                                thanks for adding all the ceremonies and stuff. he forgot how hard it is to
                                be new and how new leaders are looking for anything there is out there to
                                help them. maybe more of us old scouters need to remember that.(sorry about
                                the bad capitalization- my key keeps getting stuck and i'm too lazy to back
                                track and fix it)

                                Sandy OWL

                                bill smith <wt492@... <mailto:wt492%40wtsmith.com> > wrote:
                                A couple problems here:
                                I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for
                                den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in
                                the past, but it still doesn't do a good enough job to be a
                                stand alone preparation for a new leader to lead den meetings.

                                Many den leaders first learn of Fast Start when they attend
                                NLE or CLS. Too late! We are not that efficient at
                                communicating and I can't imagine that we ever will be,
                                even considering the high pay rates for our volunteers.

                                Last June I talked to a Director of Field Services who
                                related his observations of a focus group consisting of
                                first year den leaders. The consensus of the group was
                                that even CLS didn't prepare them sufficiently. It was only
                                after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                                to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                                new training whenever it shows up.

                                Leading a den is one of the toughest jobs in all of Scouting.
                                We should never underestimate how much preparation,
                                support and help that this job needs to succeed.

                                bill smith
                                tampa fl

                                Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of
                                > managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell
                                > my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview of the
                                > entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.
                                >
                                > ,_._,___

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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                              • JNDunnMN@aol.com
                                ... Could this be because all the useful stuff about games and songs and crafts that used to be in CS Leader Basic Training was pulled out, and made
                                Message 15 of 23 , Nov 9 8:22 AM
                                  >It was only
                                  >after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                                  >to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                                  >new training whenever it shows up.

                                  Could this be because all the useful stuff about games and songs and crafts that used to be in CS Leader Basic Training was pulled out, and made supplemental ;-0

                                  Hopefully, some of that stuff has made its way back into the syllabus.

                                  YiS,
                                  Jamie Niss Dunn
                                  Pack Trainer, Pack 512
                                  Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
                                  Cub Scout Training Coordinator
                                  Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                  3 Rivers District




                                  ________________________________________________________________________
                                  Email and AIM finally together. You've gotta check out free AOL Mail! - http://mail.aol.com


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • bill smith
                                  ... Probably true. Of course, a lot of that should be done also at Roundtables but at the last half dozen RT I attended (in different districts and councils)
                                  Message 16 of 23 , Nov 9 11:00 AM
                                    Jamie Niss Dunn wrote:
                                    >
                                    > Could this be because all the useful stuff about games and songs and
                                    > crafts that used to be in CS Leader Basic Training was pulled out, and
                                    > made supplemental ;-0
                                    >
                                    Probably true. Of course, a lot of that should be done also
                                    at Roundtables but at the last half dozen RT I attended (in
                                    different districts and councils) only one had songs and
                                    none had games. Maybe Pow Wows and UofS are the
                                    last vestiges of good CS programming.

                                    > Hopefully, some of that stuff has made its way back into the syllabus.
                                    >
                                    I had the opportunity to meet and talk a bit with Ted Rohling
                                    who is writing the new manual. He seems to have excellent
                                    credentials and he assured us that it will be more interactive
                                    and program-oriented. However it may still be a two-hour
                                    training session and that limits how much help a new den leader
                                    can get.

                                    bill smith
                                    tampa



                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Gerry Moon
                                    Getting the work out about Fast Start is part of the Pack Trainer s job. Problem that I see (and I m a Pack Trainer) is that the role in and of itself is not
                                    Message 17 of 23 , Nov 9 3:09 PM
                                      Getting the work out about Fast Start is part of the Pack Trainer's
                                      job. Problem that I see (and I'm a Pack Trainer) is that the role in
                                      and of itself is not well understood - some folks I talk to think
                                      that the Pack Trainer conducts all training of the leader in a unit
                                      (obviously not the case). I'm also District Cub Training chair and I
                                      would resist having everyone doing their own training at the unit
                                      level. When I get leaders in for NLE & PST and we ask if they have
                                      done Fast Start, some say yes, some say no, and others give that
                                      deer-in-the-headlights look. Those are the ones that either have no
                                      Pack Trainer in their units or if they do, they aren't handling
                                      their roles well. Per the Pack Trainer knot requirements, we need to
                                      have a plan to get Fast Start to every new leader within the first
                                      couple days after they join. This is in conjunction with having 100%
                                      trained (within the CM, CA, DL, WL, TL and CC roles).

                                      We use an email registration system in our District and everyone
                                      (mostly) pre-registers for training. When they mail use, we provide
                                      a confirmation mail back to them, the content of which includes
                                      stuff like when, where, what time, what to bring, who to call, how
                                      to cancel, a map, advice of any fees, and most importantly, a noodge
                                      to get Fast Start and YP done online before they show up. This helps
                                      A LOT.

                                      Oh - and to button onto the "new syllabus" discussion, we have
                                      conducted a mock Pack Meeting at the end of our PST class for years.
                                      Nothing we do gets more positive comments on the evals then the pack
                                      Meeting. It is typically an opening, skits from each training den, a
                                      song or audience participation, and advancement ceremony and a
                                      Cubmaster minute - then we distribute the trained cards and send
                                      them home - just like real Cub Scouts.

                                      Gerry Moon
                                      Orlando, FL

                                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, bill smith <wt492@...> wrote:
                                      >
                                      > A couple problems here:
                                      > I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for
                                      > den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in
                                      > the past, but it still doesn't do a good enough job to be a
                                      > stand alone preparation for a new leader to lead den meetings.
                                      >
                                      > Many den leaders first learn of Fast Start when they attend
                                      > NLE or CLS. Too late! We are not that efficient at
                                      > communicating and I can't imagine that we ever will be,
                                      > even considering the high pay rates for our volunteers.
                                      >
                                      > Last June I talked to a Director of Field Services who
                                      > related his observations of a focus group consisting of
                                      > first year den leaders. The consensus of the group was
                                      > that even CLS didn't prepare them sufficiently. It was only
                                      > after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                                      > to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                                      > new training whenever it shows up.
                                      >
                                      > Leading a den is one of the toughest jobs in all of Scouting.
                                      > We should never underestimate how much preparation,
                                      > support and help that this job needs to succeed.
                                      >
                                      > bill smith
                                      > tampa fl
                                      >
                                      > Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a
                                      matter of
                                      > > managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to
                                      tell
                                      > > my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview
                                      of the
                                      > > entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.
                                      > >
                                      > > ,_._,___
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                    • Faun Guarino
                                      I don t think it s a matter of managing expectations. When the new training was first introduced, our council trainers said you must go to NLE, then
                                      Message 18 of 23 , Nov 9 8:36 PM
                                        I don't think it's a matter of managing "expectations." When the new
                                        training was first introduced, our council trainers said "you must go to
                                        NLE, then position specific."



                                        Yes, NLE IS designed as an "overview" of the entire continuum of scouting.
                                        And for a person brand-new to the program, it's information-overload. And it
                                        frightens the heck out of a lot of new cub leaders.



                                        Frankly, my ultimate take-away at the first session our council gave was
                                        that the course was designed to convince Boy Scout leaders of the value of
                                        the Cub Scout program! (Something I never hesitate to point out to the
                                        red-epaulet brigade!)



                                        I miss the "old days" when the Commissioners were responsible for going in
                                        to units and showing the Fast Start tapes to leaders. I think it was a great
                                        way to introduce Commissioners to their new charges and a great way to get
                                        folks pre-trained.



                                        Faun

                                        Long Island, NY



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • ed5870@aol.com
                                        In a message dated 11/9/2007 2:01:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, wt492@wtsmith.com writes: Of course, a lot of that should be done also at Roundtables but at
                                        Message 19 of 23 , Nov 10 3:11 AM
                                          In a message dated 11/9/2007 2:01:07 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                          wt492@... writes:

                                          Of course, a lot of that should be done also
                                          at Roundtables but at the last half dozen RT I attended (in
                                          different districts and councils) only one had songs and
                                          none had games.


                                          We do both at our Roundtables. We ask for volunteers to do different facets
                                          at the next Roundtable



                                          ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • bill smith
                                          Great! Please let us know where and when are your RTs. If we happen to be in town, we would love to drop by and participate. bill who travels between oregon
                                          Message 20 of 23 , Nov 10 6:09 AM
                                            Great!
                                            Please let us know where and when are your RTs.
                                            If we happen to be in town, we would love to drop
                                            by and participate.

                                            bill
                                            who travels between oregon and florida

                                            ed5870@... wrote: [ RE: songs & games]
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > We do both at our Roundtables. We ask for volunteers to do different
                                            > facets
                                            > at the next Roundtable
                                            >
                                          • Fred Goodwin, CMA
                                            ... With all due respect, I think that s *exactly* the problem. When people leave NLE saying they thought they would learn how to run a den meeting and were
                                            Message 21 of 23 , Nov 10 8:25 PM
                                              > Posted by: "Faun Guarino" fguarino@...
                                              > Date: Fri Nov 9, 2007 8:36 pm ((PST))
                                              >
                                              > I don't think it's a matter of managing "expectations."

                                              With all due respect, I think that's *exactly* the problem.

                                              When people leave NLE saying they thought they would learn how to run a
                                              den meeting and were disappointed they didn't get that training, and
                                              when you and I both know that's not the purpose of NLE, then obviously
                                              there's a disconnect someplace.

                                              Those folks clearly have not done Fast Start, which as we both know,
                                              tells folks exactly how to run a den meeting. So why aren't they doing
                                              Fast Start before coming to NLE?

                                              New leaders don't know the training sequence, so I don't fault them; I
                                              blame the pack leadership for throwing them into a new job w/o proper
                                              preparation. But at least the pack got them to the training.

                                              > When the new training was first introduced, our council trainers
                                              > said "you must go to NLE, then position specific."

                                              It wasn't just your council trainers saying that -- that was exactly
                                              how the training sequence was designed by National (with Fast Start
                                              preceding both). Since hindsight is aways 20/20, we can quibble with
                                              the sequence, but you needn't blame your council trainers for following
                                              the national syllabus by requiring NLE first.

                                              > Yes, NLE IS designed as an "overview" of the entire continuum of
                                              > scouting. And for a person brand-new to the program, it's
                                              > information-overload. And it frightens the heck out of a lot of new
                                              > cub leaders.

                                              My experience has been just the opposite -- maybe its the way I present
                                              it. I try to keep it fun and engage the audience. The parts about
                                              paying for scouting and the paperwork & policy stuff can be pretty dry,
                                              but when you tie it back to child safety, that's usually enough to hold
                                              their attention.

                                              I've had many trainees thank me after a NLE session, but I've never had
                                              anyone say it was too much info. I'm not disputing your experience --
                                              I'm just saying it hasn't been my experience.

                                              > Frankly, my ultimate take-away at the first session our council gave
                                              > was that the course was designed to convince Boy Scout leaders of the
                                              > value of the Cub Scout program! (Something I never hesitate to point
                                              > out to the red-epaulet brigade!)

                                              Could be, but having taught the course for almost six years, I never
                                              got that impression. I think it shows new Cub leaders how Cubs fit
                                              into the overall progression; it shows Boy Scout leaders how Scouting
                                              builds on Cubbing, and finally how youth "graduate" to Venturing.

                                              > I miss the "old days" when the Commissioners were responsible for
                                              > going in to units and showing the Fast Start tapes to leaders. I
                                              > think it was a great way to introduce Commissioners to their new
                                              > charges and a great way to get folks pre-trained.

                                              Sounds like a great idea and something your UC would probably be happy
                                              to do if asked -- I know I would and I think I'll make that suggestion
                                              to my units.

                                              YiS,

                                              Fred Goodwin, UC
                                              former district training chair
                                            • ed5870@aol.com
                                              We are in Dutchess county in NY about 90 Min north of NYC ************************************** See what s new at http://www.aol.com [Non-text portions of
                                              Message 22 of 23 , Nov 11 6:52 AM
                                                We are in Dutchess county in NY about 90 Min north of NYC



                                                ************************************** See what's new at http://www.aol.com


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Richard Damon
                                                It sounds like Marian is going to get me a copy of the CD you sent to her. Thanks anyway. Richard Damon Pack Trainer, Pack 306 Scout Master Troop 302 Arlington
                                                Message 23 of 23 , Nov 11 7:08 PM
                                                  It sounds like Marian is going to get me a copy of the CD you sent to her.
                                                  Thanks anyway.





                                                  Richard Damon

                                                  Pack Trainer, Pack 306

                                                  Scout Master Troop 302

                                                  Arlington MA

                                                  District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston Minuteman Council

                                                  I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
                                                  NE-I-244)

                                                  | >>>-------------------> |



                                                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                                                  Of Sandra Martens
                                                  Sent: Friday, November 09, 2007 9:30 AM
                                                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                                  Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Re: cub scout training



                                                  Richard. the cd is 230 MB, 107 folders, and 833 files. It would take forever
                                                  to email to you. below are the sessions I cover. If there are specific ones,
                                                  email me out of group and ask for them. I'll try to get them to you fast.
                                                  CUB SCOUT COURSES A Good Turn Daily Bear Den Planning Beyond the Badge Blue
                                                  & Gold Banquet Cooking for Cubs NEW Crafts Creative Campfires Cub Camping
                                                  Adventures Cub Ceremonies Cub Scout Control Derby Days Dog Days of Summer
                                                  Duty to God NEW Flag Etiquette Games Galore Leatherwork Pack Finances NEW
                                                  Pack Meeting in Action Pack Meeting Programs NEW Scout Safety Share the Cub
                                                  Adventure Shenanigans Slides and Doodles Tiger Cub Trail Tying It All Up
                                                  Walking Sticks WeBeLoS Dutch Oven Cooking NEW WeBeLoS - Community WeBeLoS -
                                                  Mental Skills WeBeLoS - Outdoor WeBeLoS - Physical Skills WeBeLoS -
                                                  Technology Webelos - The 18 Month Plan NEW Webelos Overnighter NEW Webelos
                                                  to Scout Transition Wolf Den Planning Woodworking BOY SCOUT COURSES "To Help
                                                  Other People at all Times"
                                                  Backpacking on a Budget Basic Knots NEW Beyond the Badge - Boy Scouts Boy
                                                  Scout Ceremonies Camp - Wisconsin Dutch Oven Cooking NEW Duty to God NEW
                                                  Flag Etiquette Geocaching High Adventure Overview NEW Lashings NEW Order of
                                                  the Arrow Orienteering Patrol Method Project First Class NEW Scout Cooking
                                                  Scout Safety Scoutmaster Conference / BOR Share the Boy Scout Adventure The
                                                  Senior Patrol Leader Trail to Eagle Troop Calendar Planning Unscoutlike
                                                  Behavior Winter Camping Wisconsin Waterways NEW

                                                  Sandy OWL


                                                  Richard Damon <richard@... <mailto:richard%40damon-family.org>
                                                  > wrote:
                                                  Sandy,

                                                  I am working on a similar project for next weekend and would LOVE to get
                                                  some of your ideas. Any way you could email some of this to me (or links of
                                                  the stuff is online). I have a big mail box so don't worry about that.

                                                  Richard Damon

                                                  Pack Trainer, Pack 306

                                                  Scout Master Troop 302

                                                  Arlington MA

                                                  District Training Chair, Sons of Liberty District, Boston Minuteman Council

                                                  I used to be a fox (NE-I-209) and a good old staffer too (NE-I-234,
                                                  NE-I-244)

                                                  | >>>-------------------> |

                                                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                                                  Behalf
                                                  Of Sandra Martens
                                                  Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:22 PM
                                                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                                                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: cub scout training

                                                  here here! i agree.

                                                  i just finished completing a resource cd for a pow wow/rendezvous on
                                                  Saturday. As i finished sections I emailed them to the respective
                                                  instructors to check over. One of them, CS ceremonies, emailed back and said
                                                  thanks for adding all the ceremonies and stuff. he forgot how hard it is to
                                                  be new and how new leaders are looking for anything there is out there to
                                                  help them. maybe more of us old scouters need to remember that.(sorry about
                                                  the bad capitalization- my key keeps getting stuck and i'm too lazy to back
                                                  track and fix it)

                                                  Sandy OWL

                                                  bill smith <wt492@... <mailto:wt492%40wtsmith.com>
                                                  <mailto:wt492%40wtsmith.com> > wrote:
                                                  A couple problems here:
                                                  I totally agree with Dan H that the current Fast Start for
                                                  den leaders is much superior to anything we have had in
                                                  the past, but it still doesn't do a good enough job to be a
                                                  stand alone preparation for a new leader to lead den meetings.

                                                  Many den leaders first learn of Fast Start when they attend
                                                  NLE or CLS. Too late! We are not that efficient at
                                                  communicating and I can't imagine that we ever will be,
                                                  even considering the high pay rates for our volunteers.

                                                  Last June I talked to a Director of Field Services who
                                                  related his observations of a focus group consisting of
                                                  first year den leaders. The consensus of the group was
                                                  that even CLS didn't prepare them sufficiently. It was only
                                                  after they attended Pow Wow that they finally began
                                                  to understand their jobs. I have great hopes for the
                                                  new training whenever it shows up.

                                                  Leading a den is one of the toughest jobs in all of Scouting.
                                                  We should never underestimate how much preparation,
                                                  support and help that this job needs to succeed.

                                                  bill smith
                                                  tampa fl

                                                  Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > I've heard this complaint re: NLE many times. I think its a matter of
                                                  > managing expectations. As a NLE instructor, I make it a point to tell
                                                  > my new trainees that the purpose of NLE is to give an overview of the
                                                  > entire program, and how the various pieces fit together.
                                                  >
                                                  > ,_._,___

                                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                                                  __________________________________________________
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                                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                  http://mail.yahoo.com

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                                                  Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
                                                  http://mail.yahoo.com

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