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Syllabus Only Rules

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  • Dan Hammond, Sr.
    Greetings Listers, This has been an interesting subject. As our district s training chair, I tend to advise trainers to do 2 things; stick to the syllabus and
    Message 1 of 5 , Oct 11, 2007
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      Greetings Listers,

      This has been an interesting subject.

      As our district's training chair, I tend to advise
      trainers to do 2 things; stick to the syllabus and
      stay on time. If you diverge and run long, it cuts
      into the next presenters time and gets us off-track.

      That being said there are places to insert location
      specific information, especially in the NLE syllabus.
      There are a couple of places where it says to do
      things like display a map of your council and
      district.

      Roundtable is a great place to share all the "How I do
      what I do" stuff. And as for how to run a den
      meeting, that's covered pretty well in the new Fast
      Start stuff that's on-line at the BSA site. I can
      usually tell by the kind of questions that come up
      whether a new leader has actually done the Fast Start
      training.

      When it comes to the basic training sessions, NLE, Cub
      Scout Leader Specific Training, Scoutmaster/Assistant
      Scoutmaster, Venturing Leader Training, etc. there is
      a lot of information to cover, and not enough time to
      cover it. And those are the sessions required for
      leaders to be Trained. Delving into war stories and a
      lot of local information derails the training in such
      a way that you won't be able to cover the stuff that
      BSA expects to be covered so leaders are Trained.

      I am very reluctant to get into the detailed mechanics
      of how to develop a phone tree, how to ensure everyone
      knows where to meet for a trip or outing, where to get
      materials for craft items for den meetings, and things
      like that during the conduct of BSA basic training
      sessions. I believe those kinds of things properly
      belong in sessions that can and should be conducted by
      unit leaders once their new leaders are basic trained.

      And there are lots of other venues to train leaders on
      what to do for meetings. University of Scouting
      and/or PowWow are a couple of good examples.

      So I tend to agree with the DE of the original poster
      that we should stick to the syllabus for our Basic
      Training sessions. There's room for a bit of flair
      and pizzazz, but you need to cover what's in the
      syllabus *before* you start getting creative.



      Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD)
      Leavenworth, KS, Army Major(Ret), Overtrained Scout Leader,
      Kaw District Training Chairman, NRA Life Member
      CM P3001, SM T366
      |<--W-W-W--<<<| Mic-O-Say HW "Big Quick Steel"
      I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)
      And a good old staffer too (C-34-04) (C-38-06)

      Cheerful Service; because it's the right thing to do


      ____________________________________________________________________________________
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    • Michael Brown
      ... As an experienced trainer/presenter, I will say that if a trainer is provided a syllabus to follow, then yes, they should deliver the syllabus and do so
      Message 2 of 5 , Oct 12, 2007
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        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Hammond, Sr."
        <danhammondsr@...> wrote:
        >
        > Greetings Listers,
        >
        > This has been an interesting subject.
        >
        > As our district's training chair, I tend to advise
        > trainers to do 2 things; stick to the syllabus and
        > stay on time. If you diverge and run long, it cuts
        > into the next presenters time and gets us off-track.
        >
        >

        As an experienced trainer/presenter, I will say that if a trainer is
        provided a syllabus to follow, then yes, they should deliver the
        syllabus and do so within the time.

        However, it almost all cases, the trainer should be able to add to
        what is in the syllabus, to ensure that the information being
        conveyed is understood. This is why you get experienced people to
        deliver training. Otherwise you have someone who is nothing more
        then a reader of the material. Why am I wasting my time? I can read
        the material as well. What I need is someone to teach me the
        materials, which may mean giving me explainations to help me
        understand it, examples from experience, etc.

        Michael Brown
      • Sandra Martens
        the discussion wasn t whether to follow a syllabus. it was if we can run a training session that does not have a National syllabus, but something we, as
        Message 3 of 5 , Oct 12, 2007
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          the discussion wasn't whether to follow a syllabus. it was if we can run a training session that does not have a National syllabus, but something we, as experienced trainers, have created.

          I agree to follow a syllabus if there is one, but I also feel, with 20 yrs experience on all levels, that I can create an informative and interesting training experience outside of the National syllabuses that are available.

          Sandy OWL

          Michael Brown <emb021@...> wrote:
          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Dan Hammond, Sr."
          <danhammondsr@...> wrote:
          >
          > Greetings Listers,
          >
          > This has been an interesting subject.
          >
          > As our district's training chair, I tend to advise
          > trainers to do 2 things; stick to the syllabus and
          > stay on time. If you diverge and run long, it cuts
          > into the next presenters time and gets us off-track.
          >
          >

          As an experienced trainer/presenter, I will say that if a trainer is
          provided a syllabus to follow, then yes, they should deliver the
          syllabus and do so within the time.

          However, it almost all cases, the trainer should be able to add to
          what is in the syllabus, to ensure that the information being
          conveyed is understood. This is why you get experienced people to
          deliver training. Otherwise you have someone who is nothing more
          then a reader of the material. Why am I wasting my time? I can read
          the material as well. What I need is someone to teach me the
          materials, which may mean giving me explainations to help me
          understand it, examples from experience, etc.

          Michael Brown






          ---------------------------------
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Michael Brown
          ... can run a training session that does not have a National syllabus, but something we, as experienced trainers, have created. ... The original discussion was
          Message 4 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
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            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Sandra Martens <sandyowl1@...>
            wrote:
            >
            > the discussion wasn't whether to follow a syllabus. it was if we
            can run a training session that does not have a National syllabus,
            but something we, as experienced trainers, have created.
            >

            The original discussion was on the issue of whether locally created
            training syllabi were ok or not and morphed (as discussed do) to the
            topic of trainers ignoring or embellishing official syllabi. I was
            responded to a posting on that point.

            > I agree to follow a syllabus if there is one, but I also feel,
            with 20 yrs experience on all levels, that I can create an
            informative and interesting training experience outside of the
            National syllabuses that are available.
            >

            Not in disagreement here. National syllabi only cover a certain
            range of topics. An experienced trainer can always create new
            training syllabi just by delving more deeply into many topics that
            the National syllabi only touch on. Something I've done myself.

            Michael Brown
          • Dan Hammond, Sr.
            Sandy, et al, the discussion wasn t whether to follow a syllabus. it was if we can run a training session that does not have a National syllabus, but
            Message 5 of 5 , Oct 15, 2007
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              Sandy, et al,

              the discussion wasn't whether to follow a syllabus. it was if we can run a training session that does not have a National syllabus, but something we, as experienced trainers, have created.

              I agree to follow a syllabus if there is one, but I also feel, with 20 yrs experience on all levels, that I can create an informative and interesting training experience outside of the National syllabuses that are available.

              Sandy OWL

              Of course you are correct in your statement of the original discussion.

              And I will state to anyone that cares to listen that we should, and frequetly do, develop training that doesn't necessarily come from a National syllabus. We do it all the time for Roundtable, University of Scouting, Commissioner College, PowWow and all manner of other training we do.

              The one thing we don't do in any current course is train trainers on how to develop training outlines. The old Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge, and the even older Boy Scout Trainer Wood Badge used to cover these things. As an example, this is from the CSLST Manual:

              Learning Objectives
              As a result of this training experience, each participant will be able to:
              1. Describe the organization of a Cub Scout pack.
              2. Explain the role of the Tiger Cub den leader in the pack.
              3. Explain the relationship between the Tiger Cub den leader and
              other pack leaders.
              4. Explain how family involvement supports the pack.
              5. Explain the Cub Scout Leader Recognition Plan awards.

              Faculty Preparation
              1. Preview the "Pack Organization" video program.
              2. Review Chapters 7 and 23 in the Cub Scout Leader Book on pack organization
              and leadership, and Chapters 10 and 11 on pack administration.
              3. Using the PowerPoint® presentation for this session, develop visual aids (computer, overhead, flipchart, or other) to support this training.

              Materials
              "Pack Organization" video program
              Training poster 2, Cub Scout Leader Recognition Plan
              Cub Scout Leader Book
              Visual presentation support for this session (computer, overhead, or flipchart, with necessary projection equipment)
              Television set and video cassette player
              Flipchart, chalkboard, or dry erase board
              Tiger Cub Den Leader Training 23
              Handouts
              Pack Organization Chart (on the CD)
              Tiger Cub Den Leader Position Description, on the CD
              Requirements for the Tiger Cub Den Leader Award (on the CD)

              Time
              The time available is 25 minutes.

              Once we get to where trainers have developed these for the training we want to do that isn't covered by a National sylabus, we can politely tell our professional advisors to move aside and let us do our thing.


              Daniel D. Hammond, Sr. MA(HRD)
              Leavenworth, KS, Army Major(Ret), Overtrained Scout Leader,
              Kaw District Training Chairman, NRA Life Member
              CM P3001, SM T366
              |<--W-W-W--<<<| Mic-O-Say HW "Big Quick Steel"
              I Used to be an Owl... (W-CS-44)
              And a good old staffer too (C-34-04) (C-38-06)

              Cheerful Service; because it's the right thing to do



              ____________________________________________________________________________________
              Moody friends. Drama queens. Your life? Nope! - their life, your story. Play Sims Stories at Yahoo! Games.
              http://sims.yahoo.com/
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