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RE: [Scouter_T] nationally authorized syllabi only

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  • Steven Powell
    Sandy, et al Your PADLE appears to be in the same water as CS Roundtable (pun intended). Breakout sessions are den meetings and the main session is the pack
    Message 1 of 7 , Oct 8, 2007
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      Sandy, et al



      Your PADLE appears to be in the same water as CS Roundtable (pun intended).
      Breakout sessions are "den meetings" and the main session is the "pack
      meeting" usually two monthly themes in advance. The resources sheets are
      handed out for leaders to return to their packs to use in developing their
      den meetings and pack meeting. The Roundtable Commissioner is using a
      "nationally approved RT program help" to implement the Roundtable program as
      a "model pack and den meeting" for Cub leaders.



      The RT Program Help is the syllabus for RT developed by National. I agree
      with Jamie Dunn that Pow Wow and U. of Scouting are the flies in the
      ointment (there is a syllabus for Pow Wow called "Spotlight on Pow Wow" and
      a course at PTC as well called "Pow Wow Leadership") but I disagree that
      there's no syllabus for the supplemental training courses. She quotes
      National (via PTC course description): "participants will learn how to
      develop lesson plans on existing and all future training courses" and
      extrapolates there's no syllabus but it clearly states "existing training
      courses". The manner in which lesson plans are created differs among people
      (I use to be a teacher and believe me not all teachers approach Lesson Plan
      development the same and that's the focus here.developing lesson plans from
      existing syllabus or curriculum). A lesson plan is simply the method
      (Trainer Development Conference comes to mind here.) by which the
      facilitator will impart the course content as delineated in the syllabus.
      This would be different if the course description stated "participants will
      learn how to create syllabus for nationally approved training courses" or
      "participants will create new training courses (or programs) for use in the
      BSA" or "participants will create the course content utilizing nationally
      approved learning and development models for same" none of which is stated
      or even implied.



      Regardless, I personally like what you wrote about PADLE and would further
      state most Cub Scout Leader Specific training is conducted in that manner.
      Once again you learn the rules of the road in a general meeting (pack
      meeting) environment and then do the leader specific breakouts (den
      meetings). All the while you are sprinkled with run-ons, songs, cheers and
      skits (that's how our Cub leader training is conducted). It is basic
      training and CS Leader Roundtable is supplemental but both are delivered in
      a very similar manner.



      Nonetheless, Jamie makes another excellent point --- Pow Wow does it
      better!!! University of Scouting, too!!! Also, saying you're handing out
      "unapproved program helps" is probably not a good idea BUT handing out a
      PACK RESOURCE SHEET is (in my humble opinion). Maybe your Pro advisor is
      playing semantics here. They have up and down days, 'ya know?



      Let's jump the fence.how is your PADLE different from a Wood Badge TICKET
      item(s)? We generally don't look at the WB ticket as a training course or
      supplemental training but we do think of it as taking the Nationally
      approved practical course (content) experience and the participant "applies"
      what they learn through their position to make a significant impact on
      youth. The "ticket" is an executable lesson plan. I see your PADLE as much
      the same and perhaps that is what the Pro advisor sees as well? It's a
      doctorial presentation or wood badge ticket item but not a training program.
      This is something your district training committee should be doing or
      perhaps the Pack Trainer? All too often it's called "OJT". Your spin is
      taking the Fast Start video/CD and making it experiential. Maybe you could
      develop a syllabus for it and submit it to National. I'll PADLE with you on
      still waters only! Good luck!



      YiS,

      Steve

      Longs Peak Council

      Colorado-Wyoming-Nebraska



      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Sandra Martens
      Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:17 AM
      To: scout trainers
      Subject: [Scouter_T] nationally authorized syllabi only



      Help me out-

      My professional advisor for training in the council told us at the meeting
      last week that only nationally approved syllabi can be used for training-
      that we cannot create and use any of our supplemental training.

      I run a PADLE (Pack and Den Leader Experience) where new leaders learn what
      a den meeting should be like by going through 2 den meetings and a pack
      meeting. the pack committee also goes through a committee meeting and helps
      plan the pack meetings for 2 months. We also give them program helps (not
      the national ones) for Oct, Nov and Dec. these program helps include
      everything they need for their meetings except craft supplies (the national
      ones often refer to other books new leaders might not have yet)

      There isn't really a syllabus for it- it's my doctoral thesis for our
      commissioner university. I have been told that because of the new rules from
      national they'll let me put it on this year, but no more.

      Have any of you heard of this rule?

      Sandy OWL__



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Frank Maynard
      Sandra, Sounds like what you are doing with PADLE is exactly what s needed in the Cub Leader Specific position breakouts. They are meant to be unscripted
      Message 2 of 7 , Oct 9, 2007
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        Sandra,

        Sounds like what you are doing with PADLE is exactly what's needed in the
        Cub Leader Specific position breakouts. They are meant to be unscripted
        exchanges of practical information anyway, once you get past the segments
        in the syllabus. The feedback we get from our students indicates that
        what you are doing is what they are asking for - more practical help on
        how to run a meeting to supplement the general info on policies,
        uniforming, planning, and the whole NLE that they sit through for 2 hours
        and not get much practical help from. In our courses we stick to the
        syllabus (probably more rigidly than most) but still throw in as much
        helpful stuff as we can cram in. I'd be interested to see more about
        your PADLE program.

        --
        Yours in Scouting,
        Frank Maynard, NF8M
        CC, Troop 407; CR, Pack 54, Novi, Michigan
        Ottawa District Cub Training Chair, Clinton Valley Council
        Trustee, WB8BSA ...and a good old Bobwhite too! (C-23-04)
      • Gerry Moon
        While we cover the whole syllabus we do inject some district- and council-specific info in the right places - for example, in NLE, we add in the key 3 contact
        Message 3 of 7 , Oct 10, 2007
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          While we cover the whole syllabus we do inject some district- and
          council-specific info in the right places - for example, in NLE, we
          add in the key 3 contact info, the Roundtable location and date, the
          Council camp info, etc. in the Get Help session, and in the safety
          session we spend a little more time talking safety - it's
          appropriate. We may spend an extra 1 or 2 minutes discussing Youth
          Protection when the group sees a potential child molester at the
          picnic.

          After Cub Scout Position Specifics, we conduct a mock Pack Meeting -
          we have a opening, each training group ("Den") provides a skit or
          song. we do several run ons thruput the process. We do an audience
          participation, then do "Announcments", a rank advancement and a
          Cubmaster minute. We wrap up the Pack meeting with handing out the
          trained cards & strips, then get everyone to help put away chairs,
          etc. ("After the meeting"). This way we provide the brand new
          leaders with some vague idea of what a Pack meeting looks like. NO -
          it is NOT in the syllabus. YES - it works very well.

          I will opine, though, that for returning leaders (upgrades), it is
          quite possibly a rehash of the same old stuff - as is the actual
          class we conduct. Same three videos with only mildly different
          breakouts. It'd be nice if there were upgrade provisions in the
          training so as to make upgrading (and keeping current) less painful.
          When you come in as a new Tiger leader, it's a lot of stuff to
          absorb. After reruns for Den Leader, Webelos leader and either
          Cubmaster or Committee, it starts to dull down by the 3rd of 4th
          pass.

          Gerry Moon
          Orlando, FL

          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Frank Maynard <scouter@...> wrote:
          >
          > Sandra,
          >
          > Sounds like what you are doing with PADLE is exactly what's needed
          in the
          > Cub Leader Specific position breakouts. They are meant to be
          unscripted
          > exchanges of practical information anyway, once you get past the
          segments
          > in the syllabus. The feedback we get from our students indicates
          that
          > what you are doing is what they are asking for - more practical
          help on
          > how to run a meeting to supplement the general info on policies,
          > uniforming, planning, and the whole NLE that they sit through for
          2 hours
          > and not get much practical help from. In our courses we stick to
          the
          > syllabus (probably more rigidly than most) but still throw in as
          much
          > helpful stuff as we can cram in. I'd be interested to see more
          about
          > your PADLE program.
          >
          > --
          > Yours in Scouting,
          > Frank Maynard, NF8M
          > CC, Troop 407; CR, Pack 54, Novi, Michigan
          > Ottawa District Cub Training Chair, Clinton Valley Council
          > Trustee, WB8BSA ...and a good old Bobwhite too! (C-23-04)
          >
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