RE: [Scouter_T] nationally authorized syllabi only
- Sandy, et al
Your PADLE appears to be in the same water as CS Roundtable (pun intended).
Breakout sessions are "den meetings" and the main session is the "pack
meeting" usually two monthly themes in advance. The resources sheets are
handed out for leaders to return to their packs to use in developing their
den meetings and pack meeting. The Roundtable Commissioner is using a
"nationally approved RT program help" to implement the Roundtable program as
a "model pack and den meeting" for Cub leaders.
The RT Program Help is the syllabus for RT developed by National. I agree
with Jamie Dunn that Pow Wow and U. of Scouting are the flies in the
ointment (there is a syllabus for Pow Wow called "Spotlight on Pow Wow" and
a course at PTC as well called "Pow Wow Leadership") but I disagree that
there's no syllabus for the supplemental training courses. She quotes
National (via PTC course description): "participants will learn how to
develop lesson plans on existing and all future training courses" and
extrapolates there's no syllabus but it clearly states "existing training
courses". The manner in which lesson plans are created differs among people
(I use to be a teacher and believe me not all teachers approach Lesson Plan
development the same and that's the focus here.developing lesson plans from
existing syllabus or curriculum). A lesson plan is simply the method
(Trainer Development Conference comes to mind here.) by which the
facilitator will impart the course content as delineated in the syllabus.
This would be different if the course description stated "participants will
learn how to create syllabus for nationally approved training courses" or
"participants will create new training courses (or programs) for use in the
BSA" or "participants will create the course content utilizing nationally
approved learning and development models for same" none of which is stated
or even implied.
Regardless, I personally like what you wrote about PADLE and would further
state most Cub Scout Leader Specific training is conducted in that manner.
Once again you learn the rules of the road in a general meeting (pack
meeting) environment and then do the leader specific breakouts (den
meetings). All the while you are sprinkled with run-ons, songs, cheers and
skits (that's how our Cub leader training is conducted). It is basic
training and CS Leader Roundtable is supplemental but both are delivered in
a very similar manner.
Nonetheless, Jamie makes another excellent point --- Pow Wow does it
better!!! University of Scouting, too!!! Also, saying you're handing out
"unapproved program helps" is probably not a good idea BUT handing out a
PACK RESOURCE SHEET is (in my humble opinion). Maybe your Pro advisor is
playing semantics here. They have up and down days, 'ya know?
Let's jump the fence.how is your PADLE different from a Wood Badge TICKET
item(s)? We generally don't look at the WB ticket as a training course or
supplemental training but we do think of it as taking the Nationally
approved practical course (content) experience and the participant "applies"
what they learn through their position to make a significant impact on
youth. The "ticket" is an executable lesson plan. I see your PADLE as much
the same and perhaps that is what the Pro advisor sees as well? It's a
doctorial presentation or wood badge ticket item but not a training program.
This is something your district training committee should be doing or
perhaps the Pack Trainer? All too often it's called "OJT". Your spin is
taking the Fast Start video/CD and making it experiential. Maybe you could
develop a syllabus for it and submit it to National. I'll PADLE with you on
still waters only! Good luck!
Longs Peak Council
From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf
Of Sandra Martens
Sent: Monday, October 08, 2007 11:17 AM
To: scout trainers
Subject: [Scouter_T] nationally authorized syllabi only
Help me out-
My professional advisor for training in the council told us at the meeting
last week that only nationally approved syllabi can be used for training-
that we cannot create and use any of our supplemental training.
I run a PADLE (Pack and Den Leader Experience) where new leaders learn what
a den meeting should be like by going through 2 den meetings and a pack
meeting. the pack committee also goes through a committee meeting and helps
plan the pack meetings for 2 months. We also give them program helps (not
the national ones) for Oct, Nov and Dec. these program helps include
everything they need for their meetings except craft supplies (the national
ones often refer to other books new leaders might not have yet)
There isn't really a syllabus for it- it's my doctoral thesis for our
commissioner university. I have been told that because of the new rules from
national they'll let me put it on this year, but no more.
Have any of you heard of this rule?
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
Sounds like what you are doing with PADLE is exactly what's needed in the
Cub Leader Specific position breakouts. They are meant to be unscripted
exchanges of practical information anyway, once you get past the segments
in the syllabus. The feedback we get from our students indicates that
what you are doing is what they are asking for - more practical help on
how to run a meeting to supplement the general info on policies,
uniforming, planning, and the whole NLE that they sit through for 2 hours
and not get much practical help from. In our courses we stick to the
syllabus (probably more rigidly than most) but still throw in as much
helpful stuff as we can cram in. I'd be interested to see more about
your PADLE program.
Yours in Scouting,
Frank Maynard, NF8M
CC, Troop 407; CR, Pack 54, Novi, Michigan
Ottawa District Cub Training Chair, Clinton Valley Council
Trustee, WB8BSA ...and a good old Bobwhite too! (C-23-04)
- While we cover the whole syllabus we do inject some district- and
council-specific info in the right places - for example, in NLE, we
add in the key 3 contact info, the Roundtable location and date, the
Council camp info, etc. in the Get Help session, and in the safety
session we spend a little more time talking safety - it's
appropriate. We may spend an extra 1 or 2 minutes discussing Youth
Protection when the group sees a potential child molester at the
After Cub Scout Position Specifics, we conduct a mock Pack Meeting -
we have a opening, each training group ("Den") provides a skit or
song. we do several run ons thruput the process. We do an audience
participation, then do "Announcments", a rank advancement and a
Cubmaster minute. We wrap up the Pack meeting with handing out the
trained cards & strips, then get everyone to help put away chairs,
etc. ("After the meeting"). This way we provide the brand new
leaders with some vague idea of what a Pack meeting looks like. NO -
it is NOT in the syllabus. YES - it works very well.
I will opine, though, that for returning leaders (upgrades), it is
quite possibly a rehash of the same old stuff - as is the actual
class we conduct. Same three videos with only mildly different
breakouts. It'd be nice if there were upgrade provisions in the
training so as to make upgrading (and keeping current) less painful.
When you come in as a new Tiger leader, it's a lot of stuff to
absorb. After reruns for Den Leader, Webelos leader and either
Cubmaster or Committee, it starts to dull down by the 3rd of 4th
--- In firstname.lastname@example.org, Frank Maynard <scouter@...> wrote:
> Sounds like what you are doing with PADLE is exactly what's needed
> Cub Leader Specific position breakouts. They are meant to be
> exchanges of practical information anyway, once you get past the
> in the syllabus. The feedback we get from our students indicates
> what you are doing is what they are asking for - more practical
> how to run a meeting to supplement the general info on policies,
> uniforming, planning, and the whole NLE that they sit through for
> and not get much practical help from. In our courses we stick to
> syllabus (probably more rigidly than most) but still throw in as
> helpful stuff as we can cram in. I'd be interested to see more
> your PADLE program.
> Yours in Scouting,
> Frank Maynard, NF8M
> CC, Troop 407; CR, Pack 54, Novi, Michigan
> Ottawa District Cub Training Chair, Clinton Valley Council
> Trustee, WB8BSA ...and a good old Bobwhite too! (C-23-04)