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Re: [Scouter_T] Digest Number 1475 ( New OWL Syllabus)

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  • Brant Lippincott
    Hi Earl & everyone.... Maybe I was not 100% clear... The new OWL syllabus tries to combine with IOLS. But, to my feeling, it does not explain enough. I
    Message 1 of 11 , Jan 22, 2007
      Hi Earl & everyone....

      Maybe I was not 100% clear... The new OWL syllabus tries to combine with IOLS. But, to my feeling, it does not explain enough. I agree that IF you are going to try and combine those two that there are topics that can be covered together (like fire building), but that some topics will naturally have part that is for both, part for just Webelos leaders and part for boy scout leaders. The problem is that the OWL syllabus sets aside time for that separation, without explaining exactly what to cover separately.

      A more natural combination is BALOO and OWL. Even though the BALOO syllabus specifically warns agains that, I stil think it's there. This warning may be due to this thought - I don't think that OWL was an "official" course when BALOO was written.

      There are topics that cover either essentially the same material or exactly the same material. These work well together. For example, the "Aims and Purposes" in BALOO and "Webelos Outdoor Camping" in OWL both cover the Cub Scout Outdoor Program. This works well when taught together. In addition, the "skill" topics - campsites, tents, fires, cub scout cooking, etc. mesh well also. What to do on a campout does not, so we separate those. The BALOO folks learn about games, hikes, keeping it age-appropriate, etc. The OWL course covers the Webelos outdoor badges, knots, etc.... and some of the same topics, but with a Webelos approach.

      One of my main difficulties is in pulling the class instructors together. By combining them, I can draw on the same resourses and only for ONE weekend. Combining them means I only have to "go to the well" ONCE!!

      This worked pretty good in Spring 2006. We took what we learned there and did a LOT better in Fall 2006. Mainly, we pulled a couple of the classes that seemed like they should work (e.g. "Planning") apart. This one, in particular, works better as separate.

      This spring, we are offering the BALOO participants an option to stay overnight. I've heard that some other folks have done this. The BALOO syllabus does not have that in mind.

      For the Boys,
      Brant



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Elaine D. Boyd
      Brant, I was thinking of combining OWL and BALOO for next year (2008). There is also another district in my council thinking of doing this. My main reason
      Message 2 of 11 , Jan 22, 2007
        Brant,

        I was thinking of combining OWL and BALOO for next year (2008). There is
        also another district in my council thinking of doing this. My main reason
        for combining the two courses is to save my staff from having to give up a
        weekend and Saturday.

        Could you either send me or post in the file section, your notes on
        combining the two courses?


        Yours in Scouting,

        ~Elaine Boyd
        Abnaki District Cub Scout Training Chair
        Daniel Webster Council, BSA ~ NH

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: "Brant Lippincott" <brant@...>
        >
        > A more natural combination is BALOO and OWL. Even though the BALOO
        syllabus specifically warns agains that, I stil think it's there. This
        warning may be due to this thought - I don't think that OWL was an
        "official" course when BALOO was written.
        >
        > There are topics that cover either essentially the same material or
        exactly the same material. These work well together. For example, the
        "Aims and Purposes" in BALOO and "Webelos Outdoor Camping" in OWL both cover
        the Cub Scout Outdoor Program. This works well when taught together. In
        addition, the "skill" topics - campsites, tents, fires, cub scout cooking,
        etc. mesh well also. What to do on a campout does not, so we separate
        those. The BALOO folks learn about games, hikes, keeping it
        age-appropriate, etc. The OWL course covers the Webelos outdoor badges,
        knots, etc.... and some of the same topics, but with a Webelos approach.
        >
        >> This worked pretty good in Spring 2006. We took what we learned there
        and did a LOT better in Fall 2006. Mainly, we pulled a couple of the
        classes that seemed like they should work (e.g. "Planning") apart. This
        one, in particular, works better as separate.
        >
      • Marian McQuaid
        I would be interested in this also...I know IOLS and OWL can match.... Never thought of BALOO and OWL. thanks Marian McQuaid Boston Minuteman Council ... From:
        Message 3 of 11 , Jan 22, 2007
          I would be interested in this also...I know IOLS and OWL can match....

          Never thought of BALOO and OWL.

          thanks
          Marian McQuaid
          Boston Minuteman Council

          -----Original Message-----
          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On
          Behalf Of Elaine D. Boyd
          Sent: Monday, January 22, 2007 11:09 AM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Digest Number 1475 ( New OWL Syllabus)


          Brant,

          I was thinking of combining OWL and BALOO for next year (2008). There is
          also another district in my council thinking of doing this. My main reason
          for combining the two courses is to save my staff from having to give up a
          weekend and Saturday.

          Could you either send me or post in the file section, your notes on
          combining the two courses?


          Yours in Scouting,

          ~Elaine Boyd
          Abnaki District Cub Scout Training Chair
          Daniel Webster Council, BSA ~ NH
        • jmstall
          Brant wrote: A more natural combination is BALOO and OWL. Even though the BALOO syllabus specifically warns agains that, I stil think it s there. This warning
          Message 4 of 11 , Jan 23, 2007
            Brant wrote:
            "A more natural combination is BALOO and OWL. Even though the BALOO
            syllabus specifically warns agains that, I stil think it's there. This
            warning may be due to this thought - I don't think that OWL was
            an "official" course when BALOO was written."

            The OWL (or WLOT or whatever you wish to call it) course actually
            predates BALOO. It was included in the old version of the Cub Scout
            Basic Training syllabus that was replaced by the current NLE/Position
            Specific Training scheme in 2001. The new syllabus wasn't available
            until 2005 due to repeated publication delays but the course was still
            an "official course" and a requirement for the Webelos Den Leader
            award during that interim period. I can't say when OWL became a
            course, but I have taught it since the early 1990s. BALOO was
            introduced in 2000.

            Jak Stallings
            Training Chairman
            Istrouma Area Council
            Baton Rouge, LA
          • Kevin Pate
            I suspect, nearly to a point of absolute certainty, the reason BALOO is urged to be a stand alone course is its targeted audience. BALOO is intended to gently
            Message 5 of 11 , Jan 23, 2007
              I suspect, nearly to a point of absolute certainty,
              the reason BALOO is urged to be a stand alone course
              is its targeted audience.

              BALOO is intended to gently open the eyes, without
              overwhelming, and quell fear of the unknown, in adults
              of Cub age kiddos. Specifically, those adults who are
              not campers today, but who could become campers with
              the right baby steps and nudges, or who maybe have
              ventured further than the city park, but got home a
              wee bit after dark because they dinna have a clue how
              to KISMIF the night away.

              Now, if that's your target audience, does tossing them
              in and out of the midst of IOLS folks, or perhaps even
              OWL folk, really work as well as making them the sole
              focus. Conversely, if you bring the level of a
              session down to not overwhelm a BALOO never ever
              camped participant, do you shortchange the OWl or the
              IOLS adult.

              Consider all they'll be exposed to, but not at all
              prepared to compartmentalize things as this is for us,
              that's for when lil' timmie turns 11.

              Will they get so flummoxed they decide overnights at
              the zoo are more than adventurous enough?

              I'm not saying it can't be done. The right people can
              do just about anything reasonably well. It does
              present a real question on just because something can
              be done, should it be done.

              Just a different perspective.

              Kevin in Norman, America




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            • Hank Voegtle
              I d like to echo everything that Kevin has said and add one more thing to consider-location of the trainings. BALOO does not have to be taught in an outdoor
              Message 6 of 11 , Jan 23, 2007
                I'd like to echo everything that Kevin has said and add one more
                thing to consider-location of the trainings.

                BALOO does not have to be taught in an outdoor setting, although it
                can be. It can be offered in an indoor space where you have access to
                the outdoors to do the cooking of a foil pack lunch. With modern self
                supporting tents, it is easy to set up a model campsite or even
                different tents to demonstrate variety. In the principle of gently
                guiding, having BALOO indoors should take care of two of the major
                concerns of "newbies"--the weather and rest rooms.

                OWL and IOLS on the other hand are designed to replicate the scout's
                camping experience and, in the case of IOLS utilize the patrol
                method. In both OWL and IOLS having a "Plan B" and perhaps having to
                put it into effect can be very helpful.

                At 06:39 PM 1/23/2007, you wrote:
                >I suspect, nearly to a point of absolute certainty,
                >the reason BALOO is urged to be a stand alone course
                >is its targeted audience.
                >
                >BALOO is intended to gently open the eyes, without
                >overwhelming, and quell fear of the unknown, in adults
                >of Cub age kiddos. Specifically, those adults who are
                >not campers today, but who could become campers with
                >the right baby steps and nudges, or who maybe have
                >ventured further than the city park, but got home a
                >wee bit after dark because they dinna have a clue how
                >to KISMIF the night away.
                >
                >Now, if that's your target audience, does tossing them
                >in and out of the midst of IOLS folks, or perhaps even
                >OWL folk, really work as well as making them the sole
                >focus. Conversely, if you bring the level of a
                >session down to not overwhelm a BALOO never ever
                >camped participant, do you shortchange the OWl or the
                >IOLS adult.
                >
                >Consider all they'll be exposed to, but not at all
                >prepared to compartmentalize things as this is for us,
                >that's for when lil' timmie turns 11.
                >
                >Will they get so flummoxed they decide overnights at
                >the zoo are more than adventurous enough?
                >
                >I'm not saying it can't be done. The right people can
                >do just about anything reasonably well. It does
                >present a real question on just because something can
                >be done, should it be done.
                >
                >Just a different perspective.
                >
                >Kevin in Norman, America
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >____________________________________________________________________________________
                >Need Mail bonding?
                >Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
                >
                >
                >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
              • Gerry Moon
                Kevin & Hank, I d have to echo your sentiments. When I got started, my District bundled BALOO and WOLT - WOLT for the weekend, and BALOO folks showed Saturday
                Message 7 of 11 , Jan 24, 2007
                  Kevin & Hank, I'd have to echo your sentiments. When I got started,
                  my District bundled BALOO and WOLT - WOLT for the weekend, and BALOO
                  folks showed Saturday morning and left by dusk. Over time, we came to
                  realize that BALOO audiences and WOLT audiences were truly different -
                  in general, Webelos leaders-in-training had been "around the block"
                  for the most part - saving us from an entire day of introductory
                  topics (but allowing discussion/q&a from those that were new to the
                  scene). BALOO targets those with little or no outdoor experience -
                  and needs to be a gentler course. We finally decided to split them
                  and keep them separate. Then again, we are blessed with resources and
                  adequate trainers to cover the bases - so it's possible for us to "go
                  to the well" more than once a year. I understand the point of
                  bundling when resources are scarce, you do what you gotta do. BALOO
                  and WOLT are huge logistical challenges - WAY more than doing NLE on
                  a Tuesday evening.

                  IMHO, I'm not overwhelmingly impressed with the new OLSWL sylabus and
                  its intent on merging that training with IOLS. Again, it's that level
                  thing - the Boy Scout leaders are learning the outdoor-focused
                  Tenderfoot thru First Class requirements while OLSWL leaders are
                  learning the outdoor group of Activity Badges for Welebos Scouts.
                  Seems to me there's a lot of "gray areas" where the two levels are
                  just too widely gapped and not enough "same stuff" overlap.

                  I'm quite happy with having BALOO and OLSWL separate and distinct, as
                  well as IOLS as a separate entity. We do both BALOO and OLSWL
                  outside, but I'm toying with doing an indoor/outdoor BALOO in the off
                  season just to test the waters and see how that goes. I can most
                  likely find a venue for such an experiment. If it pans out, we can
                  offer multiple BALOOs a year.

                  Gerry Moon
                  Orlando, FL

                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Hank Voegtle <hvoegtle@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > I'd like to echo everything that Kevin has said and add one more
                  > thing to consider-location of the trainings.
                  >
                  > BALOO does not have to be taught in an outdoor setting, although it
                  > can be. It can be offered in an indoor space where you have access
                  to
                  > the outdoors to do the cooking of a foil pack lunch. With modern
                  self
                  > supporting tents, it is easy to set up a model campsite or even
                  > different tents to demonstrate variety. In the principle of gently
                  > guiding, having BALOO indoors should take care of two of the major
                  > concerns of "newbies"--the weather and rest rooms.
                  >
                  > OWL and IOLS on the other hand are designed to replicate the
                  scout's
                  > camping experience and, in the case of IOLS utilize the patrol
                  > method. In both OWL and IOLS having a "Plan B" and perhaps having
                  to
                  > put it into effect can be very helpful.
                  >
                  > At 06:39 PM 1/23/2007, you wrote:
                  > >I suspect, nearly to a point of absolute certainty,
                  > >the reason BALOO is urged to be a stand alone course
                  > >is its targeted audience.
                  > >
                  > >BALOO is intended to gently open the eyes, without
                  > >overwhelming, and quell fear of the unknown, in adults
                  > >of Cub age kiddos. Specifically, those adults who are
                  > >not campers today, but who could become campers with
                  > >the right baby steps and nudges, or who maybe have
                  > >ventured further than the city park, but got home a
                  > >wee bit after dark because they dinna have a clue how
                  > >to KISMIF the night away.
                  > >
                  > >Now, if that's your target audience, does tossing them
                  > >in and out of the midst of IOLS folks, or perhaps even
                  > >OWL folk, really work as well as making them the sole
                  > >focus. Conversely, if you bring the level of a
                  > >session down to not overwhelm a BALOO never ever
                  > >camped participant, do you shortchange the OWl or the
                  > >IOLS adult.
                  > >
                  > >Consider all they'll be exposed to, but not at all
                  > >prepared to compartmentalize things as this is for us,
                  > >that's for when lil' timmie turns 11.
                  > >
                  > >Will they get so flummoxed they decide overnights at
                  > >the zoo are more than adventurous enough?
                  > >
                  > >I'm not saying it can't be done. The right people can
                  > >do just about anything reasonably well. It does
                  > >present a real question on just because something can
                  > >be done, should it be done.
                  > >
                  > >Just a different perspective.
                  > >
                  > >Kevin in Norman, America
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  >_____________________________________________________________________
                  _______________
                  > >Need Mail bonding?
                  > >Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                  > >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  > >
                  > >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                  > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  > >
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                • ed5870@optonline.net
                  I agree completely and also agree the BALOO audience is also different if at all possible keep all 3 separate ... From: Gerry Moon Date: Wednesday, January 24,
                  Message 8 of 11 , Jan 28, 2007
                    I agree completely and also agree the BALOO audience is also different if at all possible keep all 3 separate

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Gerry Moon
                    Date: Wednesday, January 24, 2007 10:14 am
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Digest Number 1475 ( New OWL Syllabus)
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com

                    > Kevin & Hank, I'd have to echo your sentiments. When I got
                    > started,
                    > my District bundled BALOO and WOLT - WOLT for the weekend, and
                    > BALOO
                    > folks showed Saturday morning and left by dusk. Over time, we
                    > came to
                    > realize that BALOO audiences and WOLT audiences were truly
                    > different -
                    > in general, Webelos leaders-in-training had been "around the
                    > block"
                    > for the most part - saving us from an entire day of introductory
                    > topics (but allowing discussion/q&a from those that were new to
                    > the
                    > scene). BALOO targets those with little or no outdoor experience
                    > -
                    > and needs to be a gentler course. We finally decided to split
                    > them
                    > and keep them separate. Then again, we are blessed with
                    > resources and
                    > adequate trainers to cover the bases - so it's possible for us
                    > to "go
                    > to the well" more than once a year. I understand the point of
                    > bundling when resources are scarce, you do what you gotta do.
                    > BALOO
                    > and WOLT are huge logistical challenges - WAY more than doing
                    > NLE on
                    > a Tuesday evening.
                    >
                    > IMHO, I'm not overwhelmingly impressed with the new OLSWL
                    > sylabus and
                    > its intent on merging that training with IOLS. Again, it's that
                    > level
                    > thing - the Boy Scout leaders are learning the outdoor-focused
                    > Tenderfoot thru First Class requirements while OLSWL leaders are
                    > learning the outdoor group of Activity Badges for Welebos
                    > Scouts.
                    > Seems to me there's a lot of "gray areas" where the two levels
                    > are
                    > just too widely gapped and not enough "same stuff" overlap.
                    >
                    > I'm quite happy with having BALOO and OLSWL separate and
                    > distinct, as
                    > well as IOLS as a separate entity. We do both BALOO and OLSWL
                    > outside, but I'm toying with doing an indoor/outdoor BALOO in
                    > the off
                    > season just to test the waters and see how that goes. I can most
                    > likely find a venue for such an experiment. If it pans out, we
                    > can
                    > offer multiple BALOOs a year.
                    >
                    > Gerry Moon
                    > Orlando, FL
                    >
                    > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Hank Voegtle wrote:
                    > >
                    > > I'd like to echo everything that Kevin has said and add one
                    > more
                    > > thing to consider-location of the trainings.
                    > >
                    > > BALOO does not have to be taught in an outdoor setting,
                    > although it
                    > > can be. It can be offered in an indoor space where you have
                    > access
                    > to
                    > > the outdoors to do the cooking of a foil pack lunch. With
                    > modern
                    > self
                    > > supporting tents, it is easy to set up a model campsite or
                    > even
                    > > different tents to demonstrate variety. In the principle of
                    > gently
                    > > guiding, having BALOO indoors should take care of two of the
                    > major
                    > > concerns of "newbies"--the weather and rest rooms.
                    > >
                    > > OWL and IOLS on the other hand are designed to replicate the
                    > scout's
                    > > camping experience and, in the case of IOLS utilize the patrol
                    > > method. In both OWL and IOLS having a "Plan B" and perhaps
                    > having
                    > to
                    > > put it into effect can be very helpful.
                    > >
                    > > At 06:39 PM 1/23/2007, you wrote:
                    > > >I suspect, nearly to a point of absolute certainty,
                    > > >the reason BALOO is urged to be a stand alone course
                    > > >is its targeted audience.
                    > > >
                    > > >BALOO is intended to gently open the eyes, without
                    > > >overwhelming, and quell fear of the unknown, in adults
                    > > >of Cub age kiddos. Specifically, those adults who are
                    > > >not campers today, but who could become campers with
                    > > >the right baby steps and nudges, or who maybe have
                    > > >ventured further than the city park, but got home a
                    > > >wee bit after dark because they dinna have a clue how
                    > > >to KISMIF the night away.
                    > > >
                    > > >Now, if that's your target audience, does tossing them
                    > > >in and out of the midst of IOLS folks, or perhaps even
                    > > >OWL folk, really work as well as making them the sole
                    > > >focus. Conversely, if you bring the level of a
                    > > >session down to not overwhelm a BALOO never ever
                    > > >camped participant, do you shortchange the OWl or the
                    > > >IOLS adult.
                    > > >
                    > > >Consider all they'll be exposed to, but not at all
                    > > >prepared to compartmentalize things as this is for us,
                    > > >that's for when lil' timmie turns 11.
                    > > >
                    > > >Will they get so flummoxed they decide overnights at
                    > > >the zoo are more than adventurous enough?
                    > > >
                    > > >I'm not saying it can't be done. The right people can
                    > > >do just about anything reasonably well. It does
                    > > >present a real question on just because something can
                    > > >be done, should it be done.
                    > > >
                    > > >Just a different perspective.
                    > > >
                    > > >Kevin in Norman, America
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    > >_____________________________________________________________________
                    > _______________
                    > > >Need Mail bonding?
                    > > >Go to the Yahoo! Mail Q&A for great tips from Yahoo! Answers users.
                    > > >http://answers.yahoo.com/dir/?link=list&sid=396546091
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                    > > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                    > > >
                    > > >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                    > > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > > >
                    > >
                    >
                    >
                    >


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • peghite
                    I seem to recall seeing a Syllabus that combines BALOO & OWLS, does anybody have this that they can share?
                    Message 9 of 11 , May 7, 2014
                      I seem to recall seeing a Syllabus that combines BALOO & OWLS, does anybody have this that they can share?
                    • bnelson45
                      All official syllabus for these courses are here now: http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult http://www.scouting.org/Training/Adult.aspx
                      Message 10 of 11 , May 27, 2014
                        All official syllabus for these courses are here now:




                      • r13867
                        Bill-- When I checked the Training site, I believe it is the Webelos Leader Specific syllabus that is new. The Outdoor Skills for Webelos Leaders that is
                        Message 11 of 11 , May 28, 2014
                          Bill--
                          When I checked the Training site, I believe it is the Webelos Leader Specific syllabus that is new. The Outdoor Skills for Webelos Leaders that is available is the 2011 printing of the course we've used for the last 10 years.
                               On another note, I am glad that they are publishing all of these in pdf format so that we do not have to go to the expense of purchasing syllabi that are going to be outdated in 1 year. I am looking forward to seeing what the new materials for training will look like as they introduce the new belt loops, monthly adventures, and how themes will fit into the Pack meetings.
                          Kelly Parker
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