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Re: Training Conducted at RT.

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  • Gerry Moon
    We tried it a couple years ago - offering NLE at Roundtable - and found it DO-ABLE but not ACCEPTABLE - in terms of not up to our training team s standards. We
    Message 1 of 14 , Dec 4, 2006
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      We tried it a couple years ago - offering NLE at Roundtable - and
      found it DO-ABLE but not ACCEPTABLE - in terms of not up to our
      training team's standards. We just put more than 90 minutes of
      videos and powerpoints into our NLE sessions. One thing we encourage
      is DIALOG - when we get the students to ask questions and talk, a
      whole lot more comes out and everyone sitting in benefits from that
      discussion. We don't stray far from the syllabus, mind you, but we
      do take the info a little deeper than the ink on the page.

      BTW, John and I are in the same council, different districts. I
      agree 100% with his reluctance to use RT staff to train - while in
      my district, a good portion of the RT straff ALSO trains, we don't
      mix the two - RT is a COMMISSIONER function and training falls under
      PROGRAM. When I staff Roundtable, I do so as a Commissioner, not as
      a trainer. I do promote Roundtable at training and I promote
      training at Roundtable.

      Roundtable is not the place to do training (in the purest of
      definition). Yes, I know that what we do at RT sure looks like
      training on the surface, especially right after school night, but
      the function there is to provide Unit Service in a group setting.
      There is no monthly Roundtable syllabus to teach from with learning
      objectives to achieve. Dragging training to RT in my view is not a
      very good idea at all. Likewise, offering training CONCURRENTLY with
      Roundtable makes them have to choose between the two - again, not
      such a great thing.

      Gerry Moon
      Orlando, FL

      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, John Halter <john@...> wrote:
      >
      > I was wondering the same thing. It's funny that this topic came
      up here
      > at this time. It was recently suggested by some scout leaders
      that we
      > begin offering training at Round Table. I told them we would look
      into
      > it and I can see where some things may be able to be covered, but
      first,
      > we have to come up with a training team. I don't have a problem
      > offering training, but I'm not going to sacrifice the RT program
      to do
      > it and I'm not going to use the RT staff to do the training. Not
      > everyone needs training, so for those that are not interested in
      going
      > through it again, there needs to be the option of the regularly
      > scheduled RT session. I could see offering NLE at RT, then
      offering the
      > remaining training sessions either on the following weekend or
      broken up
      > across a few weeknights.
      >
      > Thank you,
      >
      > John Halter
      > District Commissioner
      > Wekiwa District
      > Central FL Council, B.S.A.
      > www.wekiwa.cfcbsa.org
      > "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
      > ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
      > Wekiwa is an Indian word that means "spring of water"
      >
      >
      >
      > Kevin Pate wrote:
      > >
      > >
      > > Not to put too fine a point on things, but uh, pray
      > > tell, how much tiem beyond an hour and a half is
      > > necessary to teach a 90 minute trainng session 8^)
      > >
      > > .,___
      >
      >
      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      >
    • Teresa Hall
      Well, I ll speak to the other side of the coin since I do offer one Cub Scout Leader Essential session at seven RTs each year. Just because I am holding a
      Message 2 of 14 , Dec 4, 2006
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        Well, I'll speak to the other side of the coin since I do offer one Cub
        Scout Leader Essential session at seven RTs each year. Just because I am
        holding a training session during RT does not mean that I expect to end the
        same time as RT. We start RT at 7:00, and the trainees stay for the opening
        ceremony. They are then adjourned into another room where the training
        lasts until 9:30 or 10:00pm. This is how it is advertised, so no one is
        surprised or inconvenienced. We generally train 7-10 people per month,
        compared to the 50 or 60 we get during our Saturday events. One month,
        instead of a Cub LST, we teach NLE as a RT breakout. This is marketed
        to folks who found RT training convenient at other times during the year,
        but is opened to anyone. We also make sure they know about NLE at the
        beginning of SMLST or other times it's offered during the year.

        So, while I agree that anyone who is condensing a Cub SLT to 1.5 hours is
        doing a grave disservice, please don't lump ALL folks offering CSLST during
        RT in that pile. It just ain't so! <smile>

        John Halter and Gerry Moon's comments about distracting from RT is relevent,
        too. In OUR instance (but not necessarily yours) we started this during a
        period of building Cub RTs, and with the full buy-in of the District
        Commissioner and the Cub RT Commissioner. Our Cub training had a very good
        reputation, but RT was more of an unknown to the leaders. Usually the
        people who come for training have never been to a RT. They get to see it,
        come for the early snack supper if they like, socialize a bit, get the RT
        handouts, and KNOW that there's fun they are missing! (Sometimes LST
        is even interrupted by a barrage of RT folks with marshmallow blowers or a
        visiting alligator!) We refer to it during the training as one of the best
        places to get continuing support for their position -- and now that they
        have actually seen it, they are not reluctant to come back. We've
        experienced RT growth from this. Your mileage may vary.

        YiS,
        Teresa Hall
        Vulcan District Cub Training Coordinator
        Past Vulcan Cub RT Commissioner
        Greater AL Council


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dave Loomis
        I ve offered Commissioner Basic Training during the breakout time at our Roundtables, but I ran the training over several meetings so that we could cover all
        Message 3 of 14 , Dec 5, 2006
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          I've offered Commissioner Basic Training during the breakout time
          at our Roundtables, but I ran the training over several meetings so that
          we could cover all of the information.

          Dave

          Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
          245 Union St.,# 4 603 431 5342
          Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
        • Scouter Chuck
          I d like to thank all of you for your responses so far. I ll have to cook these down a bit, and then will address some specific points out of these replies.
          Message 4 of 14 , Dec 5, 2006
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            I'd like to thank all of you for your responses so far. I'll have to
            "cook these down" a bit, and then will address some specific points
            out of these replies.

            This subject came up tonight at the District Committee Meeting, and I
            was told by our DE that any training is better than no training. I
            replied with the example of the commercial that is currently running
            for one cereal brand, where the teenage boy is shown in the back room
            eating a bowl of the cereal.

            A teenage girl comes back to tell him the boss wants him to get to
            work. The commercial shows her telling him the whole thing, then
            shows the same thing, with major portions of it blotted out by the
            sound of his chewing. She can't stand him, but her hears that she
            thinks he's "the cat's meow".

            I'm more than a bit worried that this is what will happen in any RT
            held training that involves truncating a much longer course.

            YiS,

            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
            Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
            -- Stephen R. Covey
            ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          • John Halter
            I hope your DE is not trying to push training off onto your RT staffers/Commissioners. I agree that training is important, but if training is needed that
            Message 5 of 14 , Dec 6, 2006
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              I hope your DE is not trying to push training off onto your RT
              staffers/Commissioners. I agree that training is important, but if
              training is needed that badly, your training chair should be holding
              extra sessions to get the leaders trained. If the leaders are not able
              to make it to the normal Saturday training sessions, set up a few non-RT
              night training sessions. Training is still a function of the District
              Committee. What did your Program chair have to say? What do your RT
              Commissioners and DC think about your DE's statement? BTW, nice come
              back with commercial reference.

              Thank you,

              John Halter
              District Commissioner
              Wekiwa District
              Central FL Council, B.S.A.
              www.wekiwa.cfcbsa.org
              "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
              ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
              Wekiwa is an Indian word that means "spring of water"



              Scouter Chuck wrote:
              >
              > I'd like to thank all of you for your responses so far. I'll have to
              > "cook these down" a bit, and then will address some specific points
              > out of these replies.
              >
              > This subject came up tonight at the District Committee Meeting, and I
              > was told by our DE that any training is better than no training. I
              > replied with the example of the commercial that is currently running
              > for one cereal brand, where the teenage boy is shown in the back room
              > eating a bowl of the cereal.
              >
              > A teenage girl comes back to tell him the boss wants him to get to
              > work. The commercial shows her telling him the whole thing, then
              > shows the same thing, with major portions of it blotted out by the
              > sound of his chewing. She can't stand him, but her hears that she
              > thinks he's "the cat's meow".
              >
              > I'm more than a bit worried that this is what will happen in any RT
              > held training that involves truncating a much longer course.
              >
              > YiS,
              >
              > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
              > <mailto:antelope95%40cox.net>
              > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
              > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
              > Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
              > ----------------------------------------------------------
              > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
              > -- Stephen R. Covey
              > ----------------------------------------------------------
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Dave Loomis
              Now this gets into one of my personal beliefs. Commissioners should staff training courses. My reasons are several. This gives the Commissioners a chance to
              Message 6 of 14 , Dec 7, 2006
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                Now this gets into one of my personal beliefs. Commissioners
                should staff training courses.

                My reasons are several. This gives the Commissioners a chance to
                meet the trainees in a non-confrontational situation where they are
                passing out good info. It shows the Commissioners off as the folks who
                know the material, experts to whom you can go for good information. And
                it keeps the Commissioners up to date on Scouting as she really is, not
                as she was a few years ago when they got trained.

                Dave

                John Halter wrote:
                > I hope your DE is not trying to push training off onto your RT
                > staffers/Commissioners.
                >
                > Thank you,
                >
                > John Halter
                > District Commissioner
                >
                >

                Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                245 Union St.,# 4 603 431 5342
                Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
              • Gerry Moon
                Okay, my two cents. I believe that training should NOT be relegated to Commissioners - and in the same breath, I also believe that Commissioners are probably
                Message 7 of 14 , Dec 7, 2006
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                  Okay, my two cents. I believe that training should NOT be relegated
                  to Commissioners - and in the same breath, I also believe that
                  Commissioners are probably more qualified to train that any of us. I
                  have Commissioners on my training team that, frankly, I couldn't
                  live without. I'm one myself, holding both UC and RT Staff
                  positions, but I'll be the first to admit that I'm very much a Cub
                  Scout. So - I agree with Dave in that Commissioners are great
                  candidates for trainers, and I agree with John that it's not their
                  responsibility to provide training.

                  Training requires more than just experience and knowledge of the
                  subject - even more so when we are thinking Cub training. You have
                  to think Cub Scouts, act Cub Scouts, sell Cub Scouts to apprehensive
                  and reluctant adults at first. Not so much once you move into Boy
                  Scout training...but Cub trainers need to not only deliver the info
                  but do it in a fun, non-intimidating way to hook these new parents
                  and get them to step into the water.

                  Gerry Moon
                  Orlando, FL

                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Dave Loomis
                  <dloomis.nh.ultranet@...> wrote:
                  >
                  > Now this gets into one of my personal beliefs.
                  Commissioners
                  > should staff training courses.
                  >
                  > My reasons are several. This gives the Commissioners a
                  chance to
                  > meet the trainees in a non-confrontational situation where they
                  are
                  > passing out good info. It shows the Commissioners off as the
                  folks who
                  > know the material, experts to whom you can go for good
                  information. And
                  > it keeps the Commissioners up to date on Scouting as she really
                  is, not
                  > as she was a few years ago when they got trained.
                  >
                  > Dave
                  >
                  > John Halter wrote:
                  > > I hope your DE is not trying to push training off onto your RT
                  > > staffers/Commissioners.
                  > >
                  > > Thank you,
                  > >
                  > > John Halter
                  > > District Commissioner
                  > >
                  > >
                  >
                  > Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                  > 245 Union St.,# 4 603 431 5342
                  > Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                  >
                • Don Wilson
                  Ditto, Gerry. At a recent Commissioner s meeting the District Commissioner told the Unit Commissioner to make lists for their units of leaders trained and not
                  Message 8 of 14 , Dec 7, 2006
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                    Ditto, Gerry.

                    At a recent Commissioner's meeting the District Commissioner told the
                    Unit Commissioner to make lists for their units of leaders trained
                    and not trained, and then to insure that the entrained leaders get to
                    the next training, and even suggested that the Unit Commissioner do
                    the training if necessary. The District Director (one step above
                    Senior District Executive) sat on his backside and never said a word.
                    As the meeting ended I took the DD to task advising him that with a
                    Commissioner staff keeping up with training, he would not need a
                    Training Chair.

                    Unit Commissioners have specified duties, one of which is to
                    encourage leaders be trained, and meets with the Unit Committee
                    during which the subject of training should be discussed.

                    While the District Training Chair, I made person-to-person contact
                    with every direct contact leader in the District, all units. I
                    recorded the training that each had received and shared that
                    information with the Council Registrar. Information was entered into
                    the Council records. Regrettably, when the data was uploaded to
                    ScoutNet 2,000, ALL training information was lost. I passed the
                    notebook to my replacement, and it was never utilized, much less kept
                    up-to-date. With any luck (OK, some sort of miracle) the new
                    District Training Chair will be able to completely update leader
                    training records.

                    Don Wilson
                    OHC 427+
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