RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Online Training
- Robert from reading your email it is evident to me that you share many of
the same values as many of my friends in Rovering. Please check out the
following website: www.usrovers.org <http://www.usrovers.org/> I would
like to invite you to start your own Rover Scout Crew (adult Scouting) in
your local area. The US Rovers is a growing organization which is dedicated
to supporting Scouting units while educating Scout leaders in traditional
skills while providing fellowship opportunities. The BSA does not offer
enough traditional/Scouting skills trainings. We realize that skilled
Scouters are made when they are given opportunities to practice skills
beyond OLSI training.
Rover Scout Leader 2nd SWFL Rover Crew
Crew Advisor - Crew 4 - Cape Coral, FL - SWFL Council
BSA SWFL Council Panther District Training Chair
From: firstname.lastname@example.org [mailto:email@example.com] On Behalf
Of Robert O'Donnell
Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 6:49 PM
Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Online Training
I just got back from a weekend camping trip at a local scout reservation and
sat down to go through e-mail. I am reeking of woodsmoke and am tired from a
long hike. I feel great! The kids who went were Webelos through
Tenderfoot...they were led by a Scout who didn't have a leadership role in
his own troop and serves as a guide for my "non-traditional" unit of younger
first time Scouts. The youth in my unit would never have seen Scouting if it
weren't for people who are interested in extending our Values based program
to inner city at-risk kids...ours is a Scoutreach effort.
I think BSA, like most succesful organizations, needs to be very dynamic. I
approve of the BSA designed format and work hard to deliver the Traditional
Values to kids who need it AND WANT IT! Without innovation and adaptation
Scouting will go the way of the Do-Do. I intend on assisting in getting a
Venturing Unit going with the parent of one of my daughters friends. We
approached my son's troop and asked if they would allow us to build their
registered Venturing Crew into something more than paperwork in a drawer.
The Scoutmaster, his wife (Committee Chair), and an old line Scout all said
NO!. Their reason for registering a Venture Crew, and not operating it, is
so they can take kids over 18 to Philmont. These old-line Scouters have not
done leader training in decades (if ever) and have watered down their
program because they are lazy. It isn't because they want to compete with
perfume and gasoline fumes...it is because they want to continue to do it
"the old way" ..and
each year they got further and further from "the old way" because they
discouraged new participants and new ideas. They were down to three camping
trips a year when the new parents came along three years ago. Fortunately
these new parents were trained leaders and got the calendar started, got the
resources of council activities into the troop, got the patrol method
restarted, got the camping trips organized, and did the driving, etc.
I am concerned that Scouting is getting watered down...but believe that is
because of lack of camping, failure to use the patrol method, and lack of
focus on traditional scout skills. I believe that it is because people don't
do it the way BSA teaches...because they forgot the "old way". I believe it
is because the guy who got his Eagle in 1960 and hasn't been on a weekend
camping trip in years, leaving it to the parents, is failing the kids he
serves. Memory and enthusiasm need to be refreshed. Training does that.
However most training is dull...the most important element of training is
"doing". Training where you get a lecture, while sitting in a plastic chair
for 8 hours, is DULL and SLOW. The dull slow stuff can be done online...the
DOING stuff can be done in person with other adults who have done the DULL
stuff by computer...that would work much better for me.
I recently completed Wood Badge for the 21th Century and came back
RECHARGED! I did Wood Badge in the 1990's and came back RECHARGED and then
went back to a Unit that wanted to do it "their way"...not the Scout Way. I
very much appreciated the NEW Wood Badge Course and am thrilled to have had
a great ScoutMaster/Course Director at my most recent Wood Badge
Training...he is a "role model" for me...he kept it fun, effective, and
moving at a great pace. He was well organized, didn't drop/waterdown
elements of the curiculum, and inspired me to be the leader that kids
deserve. This course was run by Westchester/Putnam Council.
Because of that course and the Course Directors example I am growing my
scoutreach program and I am helping to get the new Venturing Crew
established. We already have 15 kids who want to join Venturing and have
filled out applications. The Troop that said no to our Crew has only 15 Boy
Scouts in total...several in boarding school..They carry 30 Boy Scouts on
the roster, the balance have dropped out but are still carried on the roll
for "headcount"; that troop only has 9 or 10 Boy Scouts at any meeting.
There used to be forty active scouts in that troop. The Asst Scoutmaster
complains about older Cubs and Webelos on camping trips...there would be no
camping trips without the cubs and webelos parents....the ASM who runs the
troop doesn't even have a Drivers License...he has been absent from most of
the camping trips and yet he still complains. The SM hasn't been on a troop
camping trip in 4 years! However, he gets his "free vacation" at Philmont
every ye ar with kids who
have been several times, and are over 18, because that is the only thing
that matters to him.
I think that a good traditional active program with dedicated trained
leaders and active parents works well and attracts new kids....everything I
have seen tells me that a small program is generally a function of leaders
not having been trained or having been unwilling to do it the "Scout" way.
Our forming Venturing Crew is already oversubscribed because it is letting
the kids recruit and select the activities...when it is formed they will
direct the activiities under the supervision of the trained Crew Advisor and
Trained Associate Advisors. If Venturing Leader training had been available
to the Advisor and Associate Advisors the crew would have already been
registered. It is oversubscribed because it includes "Perfume"...half the
kids are athletic, attractive, refined and outdoorsy girls...15 to 21 year
old year old boys want to be with girls...I want them all camping and hiking
and getting sunlight with fresh air...not hanging around on Sa turday nights
Clubs" that have "exctasy" and "pot" dealers working the crowd.....I want
the kids to have peer led, adult leader facilitated "ethical discussions" as
a part of the program...I will ask that each outing include a "Scouts Own"
because that is the Scout way even though I have never seen a "Scouts Own"
in any of the three troops I have been associated with over the last 12
years; evrytime I suggested one they said "we don't do that"...I want the
boys to respect the girls as equals and as able peers. I want them to have
"traditional values", be "morally straight", and "Be Prepared" to be leaders
in their contemporary society. I want them to be "guides" in Scoutreach
programs because they have a conscience and sense of responsibility to
others. I want them to have FUN while they do these things !
I want young adults to have a BSA designed Scout program that meets their
needs and is age appropriate. I believe in Venturing and want to be a part
of its being available to young adults! So I am trying to do it the Scout
way in the 21st Century.
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- Cross-post from Scouts-L that I thought would add some fuel to the
discussion of online training or OLC. I have an opinion on this post and
will share shortly.
Longs Peak Council
Regarding online learning, I received this e-mail from an education list I
am part of and thought I'd pass it along to share:
Sloan-C's Effective Practices collection is a steadily growing work in
progress that enables educators to share effective practices for teaching
learning online. The Sloan-C framework identifies five pillars as key
for achieving quality, and to be included in the collection an effective
practice must demonstrate evidence of effectiveness in these areas.
The hallmarks of the quality pillars are:
* Learning Effectiveness: The provider demonstrates that the quality
of learning online is comparable to the quality of its traditional programs.
* Cost Effectiveness and Institutional Commitment: Institutions
continuously improve services while reducing cost.
* Access: All learners who wish to learn online have the opportunity
and can achieve success.
* Faculty Satisfaction: Faculty achieve success with teaching online,
citing appreciation and happiness.
* Student Satisfaction: Students are successful in learning online and
are pleased with their experience.
To build and share emerging knowledge and to recognize excellence, practices
nominated for inclusion in the Sloan-C collection meet these criteria:
* Innovation - the practice is inventive or original.
* Replicability - the practice can be implemented in a variety of
* Potential impact - the practice would advance the field if many
* Supporting documentation - the practice is supported with evidence
* Scope - the practice explains its relationship with other quality
View the Sloan-C Effective Practices at _www.sloan-c.org/effective_
Learn more about Sloan-C at _www.sloan-c.org/index.asp_
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- I'm not sure how relevent this is, but I have seen
ALOT of posts in a couple of groups about the online
training and wanted to share my thoughts.
Some subjects definitely require human interaction at
least to some degree. I have taken several online
college courses, and one thing I found is that they
are more difficult to complete than taking a regular
class at the local community college even though the
curriculum is the same.
The onus is on the individual to learn the material
and it is difficult to ask questions....leading(at
least in my case) to a very good understanding of the
materials through having to study more. On the other
hand, it was often frustrating compared to my in class
courses where I could ask the instructor about thing
which either confused me or just to clarify a point.
I think that the online training is a good thing for
some subjects, like youth protection, but perhaps not
so much for things such as the unit committee
challenge as I believe the whole committee or at least
a majority should be together at the course.
Perhaps the BSA needs to research somehow which
subjects might be best served on the internet, which
should stay as an in session training format, and
which might benefit from a combination of some sort.
Under any circumstance, theres no such thing as too
much training, and the availability of the information
we now have via internet is a boon to those of us who
want to ensure the best programs possible for the
Just a couple of cents worth of opinion.
Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.