Loading ...
Sorry, an error occurred while loading the content.

RE: [Scouter_T] Re: Online Training

Expand Messages
  • Matt Hannam
    Robert from reading your email it is evident to me that you share many of the same values as many of my friends in Rovering. Please check out the following
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 4, 2006
    • 0 Attachment
      Robert from reading your email it is evident to me that you share many of
      the same values as many of my friends in Rovering. Please check out the
      following website: www.usrovers.org <http://www.usrovers.org/> I would
      like to invite you to start your own Rover Scout Crew (adult Scouting) in
      your local area. The US Rovers is a growing organization which is dedicated
      to supporting Scouting units while educating Scout leaders in traditional
      skills while providing fellowship opportunities. The BSA does not offer
      enough traditional/Scouting skills trainings. We realize that skilled
      Scouters are made when they are given opportunities to practice skills
      beyond OLSI training.


      Matt Hannam

      Rover Scout Leader 2nd SWFL Rover Crew

      Crew Advisor - Crew 4 - Cape Coral, FL - SWFL Council

      BSA SWFL Council Panther District Training Chair


      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Robert O'Donnell
      Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 6:49 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Online Training

      I just got back from a weekend camping trip at a local scout reservation and
      sat down to go through e-mail. I am reeking of woodsmoke and am tired from a
      long hike. I feel great! The kids who went were Webelos through
      Tenderfoot...they were led by a Scout who didn't have a leadership role in
      his own troop and serves as a guide for my "non-traditional" unit of younger
      first time Scouts. The youth in my unit would never have seen Scouting if it
      weren't for people who are interested in extending our Values based program
      to inner city at-risk kids...ours is a Scoutreach effort.

      I think BSA, like most succesful organizations, needs to be very dynamic. I
      approve of the BSA designed format and work hard to deliver the Traditional
      Values to kids who need it AND WANT IT! Without innovation and adaptation
      Scouting will go the way of the Do-Do. I intend on assisting in getting a
      Venturing Unit going with the parent of one of my daughters friends. We
      approached my son's troop and asked if they would allow us to build their
      registered Venturing Crew into something more than paperwork in a drawer.
      The Scoutmaster, his wife (Committee Chair), and an old line Scout all said
      NO!. Their reason for registering a Venture Crew, and not operating it, is
      so they can take kids over 18 to Philmont. These old-line Scouters have not
      done leader training in decades (if ever) and have watered down their
      program because they are lazy. It isn't because they want to compete with
      perfume and gasoline fumes...it is because they want to continue to do it
      "the old way" ..and
      each year they got further and further from "the old way" because they
      discouraged new participants and new ideas. They were down to three camping
      trips a year when the new parents came along three years ago. Fortunately
      these new parents were trained leaders and got the calendar started, got the
      resources of council activities into the troop, got the patrol method
      restarted, got the camping trips organized, and did the driving, etc.

      I am concerned that Scouting is getting watered down...but believe that is
      because of lack of camping, failure to use the patrol method, and lack of
      focus on traditional scout skills. I believe that it is because people don't
      do it the way BSA teaches...because they forgot the "old way". I believe it
      is because the guy who got his Eagle in 1960 and hasn't been on a weekend
      camping trip in years, leaving it to the parents, is failing the kids he
      serves. Memory and enthusiasm need to be refreshed. Training does that.
      However most training is dull...the most important element of training is
      "doing". Training where you get a lecture, while sitting in a plastic chair
      for 8 hours, is DULL and SLOW. The dull slow stuff can be done online...the
      DOING stuff can be done in person with other adults who have done the DULL
      stuff by computer...that would work much better for me.

      I recently completed Wood Badge for the 21th Century and came back
      RECHARGED! I did Wood Badge in the 1990's and came back RECHARGED and then
      went back to a Unit that wanted to do it "their way"...not the Scout Way. I
      very much appreciated the NEW Wood Badge Course and am thrilled to have had
      a great ScoutMaster/Course Director at my most recent Wood Badge
      Training...he is a "role model" for me...he kept it fun, effective, and
      moving at a great pace. He was well organized, didn't drop/waterdown
      elements of the curiculum, and inspired me to be the leader that kids
      deserve. This course was run by Westchester/Putnam Council.

      Because of that course and the Course Directors example I am growing my
      scoutreach program and I am helping to get the new Venturing Crew
      established. We already have 15 kids who want to join Venturing and have
      filled out applications. The Troop that said no to our Crew has only 15 Boy
      Scouts in total...several in boarding school..They carry 30 Boy Scouts on
      the roster, the balance have dropped out but are still carried on the roll
      for "headcount"; that troop only has 9 or 10 Boy Scouts at any meeting.
      There used to be forty active scouts in that troop. The Asst Scoutmaster
      complains about older Cubs and Webelos on camping trips...there would be no
      camping trips without the cubs and webelos parents....the ASM who runs the
      troop doesn't even have a Drivers License...he has been absent from most of
      the camping trips and yet he still complains. The SM hasn't been on a troop
      camping trip in 4 years! However, he gets his "free vacation" at Philmont
      every ye ar with kids who
      have been several times, and are over 18, because that is the only thing
      that matters to him.

      I think that a good traditional active program with dedicated trained
      leaders and active parents works well and attracts new kids....everything I
      have seen tells me that a small program is generally a function of leaders
      not having been trained or having been unwilling to do it the "Scout" way.
      Our forming Venturing Crew is already oversubscribed because it is letting
      the kids recruit and select the activities...when it is formed they will
      direct the activiities under the supervision of the trained Crew Advisor and
      Trained Associate Advisors. If Venturing Leader training had been available
      to the Advisor and Associate Advisors the crew would have already been
      registered. It is oversubscribed because it includes "Perfume"...half the
      kids are athletic, attractive, refined and outdoorsy girls...15 to 21 year
      old year old boys want to be with girls...I want them all camping and hiking
      and getting sunlight with fresh air...not hanging around on Sa turday nights
      in "Teen
      Clubs" that have "exctasy" and "pot" dealers working the crowd.....I want
      the kids to have peer led, adult leader facilitated "ethical discussions" as
      a part of the program...I will ask that each outing include a "Scouts Own"
      because that is the Scout way even though I have never seen a "Scouts Own"
      in any of the three troops I have been associated with over the last 12
      years; evrytime I suggested one they said "we don't do that"...I want the
      boys to respect the girls as equals and as able peers. I want them to have
      "traditional values", be "morally straight", and "Be Prepared" to be leaders
      in their contemporary society. I want them to be "guides" in Scoutreach
      programs because they have a conscience and sense of responsibility to
      others. I want them to have FUN while they do these things !

      I want young adults to have a BSA designed Scout program that meets their
      needs and is age appropriate. I believe in Venturing and want to be a part
      of its being available to young adults! So I am trying to do it the Scout
      way in the 21st Century.

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Steven Powell
      Cross-post from Scouts-L that I thought would add some fuel to the discussion of online training or OLC. I have an opinion on this post and will share
      Message 2 of 15 , Feb 2 7:36 AM
      • 0 Attachment
        Cross-post from Scouts-L that I thought would add some fuel to the
        discussion of online training or OLC. I have an opinion on this post and
        will share shortly.

        Steve Powell

        Longs Peak Council


        Regarding online learning, I received this e-mail from an education list I
        am part of and thought I'd pass it along to share:

        Sloan-C's Effective Practices collection is a steadily growing work in

        progress that enables educators to share effective practices for teaching

        learning online. The Sloan-C framework identifies five pillars as key

        for achieving quality, and to be included in the collection an effective

        practice must demonstrate evidence of effectiveness in these areas.

        The hallmarks of the quality pillars are:

        * Learning Effectiveness: The provider demonstrates that the quality

        of learning online is comparable to the quality of its traditional programs.

        * Cost Effectiveness and Institutional Commitment: Institutions

        continuously improve services while reducing cost.

        * Access: All learners who wish to learn online have the opportunity

        and can achieve success.

        * Faculty Satisfaction: Faculty achieve success with teaching online,

        citing appreciation and happiness.

        * Student Satisfaction: Students are successful in learning online and

        are pleased with their experience.

        To build and share emerging knowledge and to recognize excellence, practices

        nominated for inclusion in the Sloan-C collection meet these criteria:

        * Innovation - the practice is inventive or original.

        * Replicability - the practice can be implemented in a variety of

        learning environments.

        * Potential impact - the practice would advance the field if many

        adopted it.

        * Supporting documentation - the practice is supported with evidence

        of effectiveness.

        * Scope - the practice explains its relationship with other quality


        View the Sloan-C Effective Practices at _www.sloan-c.org/effective_


        Learn more about Sloan-C at _www.sloan-c.org/index.asp_



        Mary Cooper

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • george Bruckjr
        I m not sure how relevent this is, but I have seen ALOT of posts in a couple of groups about the online training and wanted to share my thoughts. Some subjects
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 3 5:36 AM
        • 0 Attachment
          I'm not sure how relevent this is, but I have seen
          ALOT of posts in a couple of groups about the online
          training and wanted to share my thoughts.

          Some subjects definitely require human interaction at
          least to some degree. I have taken several online
          college courses, and one thing I found is that they
          are more difficult to complete than taking a regular
          class at the local community college even though the
          curriculum is the same.

          The onus is on the individual to learn the material
          and it is difficult to ask questions....leading(at
          least in my case) to a very good understanding of the
          materials through having to study more. On the other
          hand, it was often frustrating compared to my in class
          courses where I could ask the instructor about thing
          which either confused me or just to clarify a point.

          I think that the online training is a good thing for
          some subjects, like youth protection, but perhaps not
          so much for things such as the unit committee
          challenge as I believe the whole committee or at least
          a majority should be together at the course.

          Perhaps the BSA needs to research somehow which
          subjects might be best served on the internet, which
          should stay as an in session training format, and
          which might benefit from a combination of some sort.

          Under any circumstance, theres no such thing as too
          much training, and the availability of the information
          we now have via internet is a boon to those of us who
          want to ensure the best programs possible for the

          Just a couple of cents worth of opinion.

          Food fight? Enjoy some healthy debate
          in the Yahoo! Answers Food & Drink Q&A.
        Your message has been successfully submitted and would be delivered to recipients shortly.