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Re: Online Training

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  • Robert O'Donnell
    I just got back from a weekend camping trip at a local scout reservation and sat down to go through e-mail. I am reeking of woodsmoke and am tired from a long
    Message 1 of 15 , Dec 3, 2006
      I just got back from a weekend camping trip at a local scout reservation and sat down to go through e-mail. I am reeking of woodsmoke and am tired from a long hike. I feel great! The kids who went were Webelos through Tenderfoot...they were led by a Scout who didn't have a leadership role in his own troop and serves as a guide for my "non-traditional" unit of younger first time Scouts. The youth in my unit would never have seen Scouting if it weren't for people who are interested in extending our Values based program to inner city at-risk kids...ours is a Scoutreach effort.

      I think BSA, like most succesful organizations, needs to be very dynamic. I approve of the BSA designed format and work hard to deliver the Traditional Values to kids who need it AND WANT IT! Without innovation and adaptation Scouting will go the way of the Do-Do. I intend on assisting in getting a Venturing Unit going with the parent of one of my daughters friends. We approached my son's troop and asked if they would allow us to build their registered Venturing Crew into something more than paperwork in a drawer. The Scoutmaster, his wife (Committee Chair), and an old line Scout all said NO!. Their reason for registering a Venture Crew, and not operating it, is so they can take kids over 18 to Philmont. These old-line Scouters have not done leader training in decades (if ever) and have watered down their program because they are lazy. It isn't because they want to compete with perfume and gasoline fumes...it is because they want to continue to do it "the old way"..and
      each year they got further and further from "the old way" because they discouraged new participants and new ideas. They were down to three camping trips a year when the new parents came along three years ago. Fortunately these new parents were trained leaders and got the calendar started, got the resources of council activities into the troop, got the patrol method restarted, got the camping trips organized, and did the driving, etc.

      I am concerned that Scouting is getting watered down...but believe that is because of lack of camping, failure to use the patrol method, and lack of focus on traditional scout skills. I believe that it is because people don't do it the way BSA teaches...because they forgot the "old way". I believe it is because the guy who got his Eagle in 1960 and hasn't been on a weekend camping trip in years, leaving it to the parents, is failing the kids he serves. Memory and enthusiasm need to be refreshed. Training does that. However most training is dull...the most important element of training is "doing". Training where you get a lecture, while sitting in a plastic chair for 8 hours, is DULL and SLOW. The dull slow stuff can be done online...the DOING stuff can be done in person with other adults who have done the DULL stuff by computer...that would work much better for me.

      I recently completed Wood Badge for the 21th Century and came back RECHARGED! I did Wood Badge in the 1990's and came back RECHARGED and then went back to a Unit that wanted to do it "their way"...not the Scout Way. I very much appreciated the NEW Wood Badge Course and am thrilled to have had a great ScoutMaster/Course Director at my most recent Wood Badge Training...he is a "role model" for me...he kept it fun, effective, and moving at a great pace. He was well organized, didn't drop/waterdown elements of the curiculum, and inspired me to be the leader that kids deserve. This course was run by Westchester/Putnam Council.

      Because of that course and the Course Directors example I am growing my scoutreach program and I am helping to get the new Venturing Crew established. We already have 15 kids who want to join Venturing and have filled out applications. The Troop that said no to our Crew has only 15 Boy Scouts in total...several in boarding school..They carry 30 Boy Scouts on the roster, the balance have dropped out but are still carried on the roll for "headcount"; that troop only has 9 or 10 Boy Scouts at any meeting. There used to be forty active scouts in that troop. The Asst Scoutmaster complains about older Cubs and Webelos on camping trips...there would be no camping trips without the cubs and webelos parents....the ASM who runs the troop doesn't even have a Drivers License...he has been absent from most of the camping trips and yet he still complains. The SM hasn't been on a troop camping trip in 4 years! However, he gets his "free vacation" at Philmont every year with kids who
      have been several times, and are over 18, because that is the only thing that matters to him.

      I think that a good traditional active program with dedicated trained leaders and active parents works well and attracts new kids....everything I have seen tells me that a small program is generally a function of leaders not having been trained or having been unwilling to do it the "Scout" way. Our forming Venturing Crew is already oversubscribed because it is letting the kids recruit and select the activities...when it is formed they will direct the activiities under the supervision of the trained Crew Advisor and Trained Associate Advisors. If Venturing Leader training had been available to the Advisor and Associate Advisors the crew would have already been registered. It is oversubscribed because it includes "Perfume"...half the kids are athletic, attractive, refined and outdoorsy girls...15 to 21 year old year old boys want to be with girls...I want them all camping and hiking and getting sunlight with fresh air...not hanging around on Saturday nights in "Teen
      Clubs" that have "exctasy" and "pot" dealers working the crowd.....I want the kids to have peer led, adult leader facilitated "ethical discussions" as a part of the program...I will ask that each outing include a "Scouts Own" because that is the Scout way even though I have never seen a "Scouts Own" in any of the three troops I have been associated with over the last 12 years; evrytime I suggested one they said "we don't do that"...I want the boys to respect the girls as equals and as able peers. I want them to have "traditional values", be "morally straight", and "Be Prepared" to be leaders in their contemporary society. I want them to be "guides" in Scoutreach programs because they have a conscience and sense of responsibility to others. I want them to have FUN while they do these things !

      I want young adults to have a BSA designed Scout program that meets their needs and is age appropriate. I believe in Venturing and want to be a part of its being available to young adults! So I am trying to do it the Scout way in the 21st Century.


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Matt Hannam
      Robert from reading your email it is evident to me that you share many of the same values as many of my friends in Rovering. Please check out the following
      Message 2 of 15 , Dec 4, 2006
        Robert from reading your email it is evident to me that you share many of
        the same values as many of my friends in Rovering. Please check out the
        following website: www.usrovers.org <http://www.usrovers.org/> I would
        like to invite you to start your own Rover Scout Crew (adult Scouting) in
        your local area. The US Rovers is a growing organization which is dedicated
        to supporting Scouting units while educating Scout leaders in traditional
        skills while providing fellowship opportunities. The BSA does not offer
        enough traditional/Scouting skills trainings. We realize that skilled
        Scouters are made when they are given opportunities to practice skills
        beyond OLSI training.



        YIS,

        Matt Hannam

        Rover Scout Leader 2nd SWFL Rover Crew

        Crew Advisor - Crew 4 - Cape Coral, FL - SWFL Council

        BSA SWFL Council Panther District Training Chair



        _____

        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Robert O'Donnell
        Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 6:49 PM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Online Training



        I just got back from a weekend camping trip at a local scout reservation and
        sat down to go through e-mail. I am reeking of woodsmoke and am tired from a
        long hike. I feel great! The kids who went were Webelos through
        Tenderfoot...they were led by a Scout who didn't have a leadership role in
        his own troop and serves as a guide for my "non-traditional" unit of younger
        first time Scouts. The youth in my unit would never have seen Scouting if it
        weren't for people who are interested in extending our Values based program
        to inner city at-risk kids...ours is a Scoutreach effort.

        I think BSA, like most succesful organizations, needs to be very dynamic. I
        approve of the BSA designed format and work hard to deliver the Traditional
        Values to kids who need it AND WANT IT! Without innovation and adaptation
        Scouting will go the way of the Do-Do. I intend on assisting in getting a
        Venturing Unit going with the parent of one of my daughters friends. We
        approached my son's troop and asked if they would allow us to build their
        registered Venturing Crew into something more than paperwork in a drawer.
        The Scoutmaster, his wife (Committee Chair), and an old line Scout all said
        NO!. Their reason for registering a Venture Crew, and not operating it, is
        so they can take kids over 18 to Philmont. These old-line Scouters have not
        done leader training in decades (if ever) and have watered down their
        program because they are lazy. It isn't because they want to compete with
        perfume and gasoline fumes...it is because they want to continue to do it
        "the old way" ..and
        each year they got further and further from "the old way" because they
        discouraged new participants and new ideas. They were down to three camping
        trips a year when the new parents came along three years ago. Fortunately
        these new parents were trained leaders and got the calendar started, got the
        resources of council activities into the troop, got the patrol method
        restarted, got the camping trips organized, and did the driving, etc.

        I am concerned that Scouting is getting watered down...but believe that is
        because of lack of camping, failure to use the patrol method, and lack of
        focus on traditional scout skills. I believe that it is because people don't
        do it the way BSA teaches...because they forgot the "old way". I believe it
        is because the guy who got his Eagle in 1960 and hasn't been on a weekend
        camping trip in years, leaving it to the parents, is failing the kids he
        serves. Memory and enthusiasm need to be refreshed. Training does that.
        However most training is dull...the most important element of training is
        "doing". Training where you get a lecture, while sitting in a plastic chair
        for 8 hours, is DULL and SLOW. The dull slow stuff can be done online...the
        DOING stuff can be done in person with other adults who have done the DULL
        stuff by computer...that would work much better for me.

        I recently completed Wood Badge for the 21th Century and came back
        RECHARGED! I did Wood Badge in the 1990's and came back RECHARGED and then
        went back to a Unit that wanted to do it "their way"...not the Scout Way. I
        very much appreciated the NEW Wood Badge Course and am thrilled to have had
        a great ScoutMaster/Course Director at my most recent Wood Badge
        Training...he is a "role model" for me...he kept it fun, effective, and
        moving at a great pace. He was well organized, didn't drop/waterdown
        elements of the curiculum, and inspired me to be the leader that kids
        deserve. This course was run by Westchester/Putnam Council.

        Because of that course and the Course Directors example I am growing my
        scoutreach program and I am helping to get the new Venturing Crew
        established. We already have 15 kids who want to join Venturing and have
        filled out applications. The Troop that said no to our Crew has only 15 Boy
        Scouts in total...several in boarding school..They carry 30 Boy Scouts on
        the roster, the balance have dropped out but are still carried on the roll
        for "headcount"; that troop only has 9 or 10 Boy Scouts at any meeting.
        There used to be forty active scouts in that troop. The Asst Scoutmaster
        complains about older Cubs and Webelos on camping trips...there would be no
        camping trips without the cubs and webelos parents....the ASM who runs the
        troop doesn't even have a Drivers License...he has been absent from most of
        the camping trips and yet he still complains. The SM hasn't been on a troop
        camping trip in 4 years! However, he gets his "free vacation" at Philmont
        every ye ar with kids who
        have been several times, and are over 18, because that is the only thing
        that matters to him.

        I think that a good traditional active program with dedicated trained
        leaders and active parents works well and attracts new kids....everything I
        have seen tells me that a small program is generally a function of leaders
        not having been trained or having been unwilling to do it the "Scout" way.
        Our forming Venturing Crew is already oversubscribed because it is letting
        the kids recruit and select the activities...when it is formed they will
        direct the activiities under the supervision of the trained Crew Advisor and
        Trained Associate Advisors. If Venturing Leader training had been available
        to the Advisor and Associate Advisors the crew would have already been
        registered. It is oversubscribed because it includes "Perfume"...half the
        kids are athletic, attractive, refined and outdoorsy girls...15 to 21 year
        old year old boys want to be with girls...I want them all camping and hiking
        and getting sunlight with fresh air...not hanging around on Sa turday nights
        in "Teen
        Clubs" that have "exctasy" and "pot" dealers working the crowd.....I want
        the kids to have peer led, adult leader facilitated "ethical discussions" as
        a part of the program...I will ask that each outing include a "Scouts Own"
        because that is the Scout way even though I have never seen a "Scouts Own"
        in any of the three troops I have been associated with over the last 12
        years; evrytime I suggested one they said "we don't do that"...I want the
        boys to respect the girls as equals and as able peers. I want them to have
        "traditional values", be "morally straight", and "Be Prepared" to be leaders
        in their contemporary society. I want them to be "guides" in Scoutreach
        programs because they have a conscience and sense of responsibility to
        others. I want them to have FUN while they do these things !

        I want young adults to have a BSA designed Scout program that meets their
        needs and is age appropriate. I believe in Venturing and want to be a part
        of its being available to young adults! So I am trying to do it the Scout
        way in the 21st Century.

        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Steven Powell
        Cross-post from Scouts-L that I thought would add some fuel to the discussion of online training or OLC. I have an opinion on this post and will share
        Message 3 of 15 , Feb 2, 2007
          Cross-post from Scouts-L that I thought would add some fuel to the
          discussion of online training or OLC. I have an opinion on this post and
          will share shortly.



          Steve Powell

          Longs Peak Council

          /////////////////////////////////////////////////

          Regarding online learning, I received this e-mail from an education list I
          am part of and thought I'd pass it along to share:





          Sloan-C's Effective Practices collection is a steadily growing work in

          progress that enables educators to share effective practices for teaching
          and

          learning online. The Sloan-C framework identifies five pillars as key
          principles

          for achieving quality, and to be included in the collection an effective

          practice must demonstrate evidence of effectiveness in these areas.

          The hallmarks of the quality pillars are:

          * Learning Effectiveness: The provider demonstrates that the quality

          of learning online is comparable to the quality of its traditional programs.


          * Cost Effectiveness and Institutional Commitment: Institutions

          continuously improve services while reducing cost.

          * Access: All learners who wish to learn online have the opportunity

          and can achieve success.

          * Faculty Satisfaction: Faculty achieve success with teaching online,


          citing appreciation and happiness.

          * Student Satisfaction: Students are successful in learning online and


          are pleased with their experience.

          To build and share emerging knowledge and to recognize excellence, practices


          nominated for inclusion in the Sloan-C collection meet these criteria:

          * Innovation - the practice is inventive or original.

          * Replicability - the practice can be implemented in a variety of

          learning environments.

          * Potential impact - the practice would advance the field if many

          adopted it.

          * Supporting documentation - the practice is supported with evidence

          of effectiveness.

          * Scope - the practice explains its relationship with other quality

          elements.

          View the Sloan-C Effective Practices at _www.sloan-c.org/effective_

          (http://mail.ccie.com/go/eed/1473).

          Learn more about Sloan-C at _www.sloan-c.org/index.asp_

          (http://www.sloan-c.org/index.asp)

          YIS,

          Mary Cooper



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • george Bruckjr
          I m not sure how relevent this is, but I have seen ALOT of posts in a couple of groups about the online training and wanted to share my thoughts. Some subjects
          Message 4 of 15 , Feb 3, 2007
            I'm not sure how relevent this is, but I have seen
            ALOT of posts in a couple of groups about the online
            training and wanted to share my thoughts.

            Some subjects definitely require human interaction at
            least to some degree. I have taken several online
            college courses, and one thing I found is that they
            are more difficult to complete than taking a regular
            class at the local community college even though the
            curriculum is the same.

            The onus is on the individual to learn the material
            and it is difficult to ask questions....leading(at
            least in my case) to a very good understanding of the
            materials through having to study more. On the other
            hand, it was often frustrating compared to my in class
            courses where I could ask the instructor about thing
            which either confused me or just to clarify a point.

            I think that the online training is a good thing for
            some subjects, like youth protection, but perhaps not
            so much for things such as the unit committee
            challenge as I believe the whole committee or at least
            a majority should be together at the course.

            Perhaps the BSA needs to research somehow which
            subjects might be best served on the internet, which
            should stay as an in session training format, and
            which might benefit from a combination of some sort.

            Under any circumstance, theres no such thing as too
            much training, and the availability of the information
            we now have via internet is a boon to those of us who
            want to ensure the best programs possible for the
            kids.

            Just a couple of cents worth of opinion.



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