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RE: [Scouter_T] Cub Basic Leader Training - online?

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  • Connie Knie
    Dave, What you are describing, I believe exists only in the world of perfect, but since we all shop at Walgreens then sometimes the we have to sacrifice one
    Message 1 of 25 , Nov 26, 2006
      Dave,
      What you are describing, I believe exists only in the world of perfect, but since we all shop at Walgreens then sometimes the we have to sacrifice one thing for another. Do I want to see Basic Training and NLE go on line? NO! I too am not the training staff and love doing it.
      But I don't believe that if someone took the course on line and it was the exact same material that I teach, they would be any less trained. What they miss out on is the chance to interact and bounce ideas off of "live" trainers and other participants.
      I am not sure what "experience" on line would be taking them away from. There are leaders who take training just to get the signature on their card and go back and do their own thing anyway.
      I really don't understand how there will be "more units failing" if more of the courses are on line.
      Shoot there are some "live" trainers out there giving out wrong info and adding to the spread of urban legends!
      As much as it pains me, we may have to go with the flow and hope we can get these folks to come to RT. I am the co-commish for the Boy Scout side by the way.........

      David Brown <kc9dre@...> wrote:
      I am all for revamping the training videos, don't get me wrong. I just
      don't want to see it go online. That takes so much away from the whole
      experience. Our current Training team for Cubs is only 5 people, 3 full
      timers and 2 part timers. We currently do not have a Boy Scout Training
      team in our District. But once you take the trainer out of the training you
      will end up with units failing.

      Course of action needed is to first and foremost update the materials to
      match the current program changes. Example Tigers program changes

      Get Pack Trainers to Trainer's Development

      Pack trainers should serve on the District Training Teams. Once they serve
      for 1 year and you trust they will do a good job, have them carry training
      to the unit with proper supervision to start off with.

      This way you will have properly trained and experienced Trainers, AND you
      will have properly trained Leaders. And you will get your trained percentage
      up (if entered at Council)

      There should also be a Pack Trainer Specifics Training developed (Trainers
      Development I know is the closet thing) to ensure that the Pt knows what
      they are doing.

      And each unit should have one!!!

      Dave Brown
      Pack 563
      Charlestown, IN
      Cub Training Team
      Chief Old Ox
      Lincoln Heritage Council
      WB- SR-778
      "I used to be an Antelope."

      _____

      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Kevin Pate
      Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 11:05 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Cub Basic Leader Training - online?

      > Next thing someone will want to put BALOO and
      > Webelos Outdoor online, and we will go "Virtual
      > Camping"

      You've never enjoyed a virtual campfire, quietly
      reflecting on the events of the day, enjoying the
      sparks and embers of and savoring the smell of smoke
      .... Yiiiiiiiiiiiii, my computer's on fire!!!!!

      8^)

      __________________________________________________________
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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






      connie

      SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • JWoughter
      The real pros when it comes to education are universities, and on that level, online education is booming. Are there distractors who hate it? You bet. Is the
      Message 2 of 25 , Nov 26, 2006
        The real pros when it comes to education are universities, and on
        that level, online education is booming.

        Are there distractors who hate it? You bet.

        Is the education one gets online second rate? Depends. Point being
        that there are many very good online programs.

        I've taken a masters of arts program from an excellent university
        (the name doesn't really matter) and the education was first rate.

        For us to comlpletely dismiss online education, I think, would be a
        mistake. It's come to the point that anybody with internet access
        can access online education (eliminating the need for district
        computers) and if done right can significantly increase the level of
        training among our leaders.

        Perhaps in many districts the program is running well and there is a
        sufficient density to make the desired training happen. But I wonder
        if this is the exception ...

        John Woughter
        Charmelagne District, Transatlantic Council
      • Margo Mead
        Not to mention that I find the current training materials somewhat useless. I took Cubmaster training and came away from it having learned not much. I
        Message 3 of 25 , Nov 26, 2006
          Not to mention that I find the current training materials somewhat useless.
          I took "Cubmaster" training and came away from it having learned "not much."
          I expected to spend much more time on what my duties were, how I functioned
          with the Pack Committee and the den leaders, and what a pack meeting should
          be like. I am now a trainer and I try to enrich my courses with the kind of
          info that I was seeking, but there is only so much time for that when you
          are following the syllabus. I would not have a problem with the courses
          being online just as Youth Protection and Fast Start are. As others have
          mentioned, encouraging them to go to Roundtable is probably one of the best
          ways for them to get interaction with other leaders and examples of what
          pack meetings and den meetings should be like.



          (I should probably mention that I had been an advancement chair for 6 years
          prior to becoming Cubmaster-yes I have three sons-and that I READ THE CUB
          SCOUT LEADER BOOK before I went to training. Crazy I know.)



          Regards--

          Margo Mead

          Portland, Oregon

          meadclan@...

          www.beadiecritters.com

          www.geocities.com/meadfamily

          www.geocities.com/worldkrahenbuhl

          _____

          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Dan Kurtenbach
          Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:57 PM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Cub Basic Leader Training - online?



          I sometimes wonder if we get so caught up in how we deliver training that we

          forget the main point: leaders who have the skill and knowledge to put on
          a great Scouting program. How they get that skill and knowledge -- "live"
          classes, online, DVD, self-study, observation, roundtables, talking with
          other leaders -- should be irrelevant.



          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Robert O'Donnell
          Sounds great...that would allow rural leaders to get trained (Scoutreach goal) or to help time famished people who are trying to manage their schedules
          Message 4 of 25 , Nov 26, 2006
            Sounds great...that would allow rural leaders to get trained (Scoutreach goal) or to help time famished people who are trying to manage their schedules balancing family and the many hours devoted to Scouting. Since councils are also occasionall frustrated trying to get leaders trained it could be a boon to them as well.

            I think it could be a grand idea for all kinds of Scout training. At the very least the idea of DVD's and E-training could be used for pre-course and therefor make live training with other leaders more effective and meaningful. If the DvD or e-training can cover teh basics then the courses can be excercises and fellowship based activities. Sitting through 9 hours of lectures has never been something I look forward to. BSA traing is actually quite good and the message is really important..whatever ramps up the quality and efficiency of the hours spent in leader courses would be valuable to the leaders, the training chairs, and most importantly the kids.

            My wife is more than a little annoyed that I lost another weekend to training instead of spending it with her. I want the training, each time I go for training or roundtables I see the benefit in the increased quality of the program I deliver to the kids. It would be nice to also not have to apolgize for the time it takes.

            If troops could get DVD's for their leaders some leaders may want to use them for refreshers as well. Good idea!


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Teresa Hall
            John, that brings us a very interesting angle. Being in higher ed myself, it occurs to me that most online education in THAT world is not just viewing and
            Message 5 of 25 , Nov 26, 2006
              John, that brings us a very interesting angle. Being in higher ed myself, it
              occurs to me that most online education in THAT world is not just viewing
              and passing a test on an online video (ie, like SSD and Safety Afloat). It
              typically includes a way for online discussion with others in the class and
              the instructor, and is spread out over a period of time.

              Would integrating some of these features make online CSLST better? Well, I
              think it might.

              *How about an online discussion group attached to the LST online
              presentation where the leaders could ask questions and get responses from a
              team of experienced trainers?

              *How about having the students do a bit of "homework" like building a plan
              for a meeting (as is part of the regular syllabus) and have them submit it
              and get feedback from someone on the training team before they can take the
              test and get their course completion?

              I'm sure there are even better ways to make online CSLST a good learning
              experience, and you can help think of them. I would volunteer my time to
              monitor and support such an effort, and I'll bet most of you would, as well.


              Because I think we ALL feel that face to face instruction is better, but
              most of us also realize that we will never be able to reach all of our
              audience that way. And if the Cub Scout division was actually able to
              periodically monitor the discussion groups, like they do some of the big
              discussion groups, well then we might have a way to ensure that some urban
              legends are stopped.

              Thoughts? Ideas?

              Teresa Hall
              Vulcan District Cub Training Coordinator
              Greater Alabama Council


              On 11/26/06, JWoughter <john.woughter@...> wrote:
              >
              > The real pros when it comes to education are universities, and on
              > that level, online education is booming.
              >
              >


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Gerry Moon
              I m 100% in agreement with you - Position Specifics for RETURNING leaders - moving from Tiger Leader to Den Leader, Den Leader to Weeb Leader, etc. is sheer
              Message 6 of 25 , Nov 27, 2006
                I'm 100% in agreement with you - Position Specifics for RETURNING
                leaders - moving from Tiger Leader to Den Leader, Den Leader to Weeb
                Leader, etc. is sheer torture - spending an afternoon (or evening)
                seeing the same old (and I DO mean OLD!) videos over again and the
                only difference is a couple of powerpoint slides and handouts.

                Ideally, an "upgrade" course would serve a purpose- review the major
                points, offer info on program updates, and train on the specifics of
                the new position - as in compare and contrast - while keeping
                the "original" course (with updated syllabus and AV materials) for
                newcomers. It tortures me to torture the leaders who stay on board
                and watch them squirm when they are back for the third or fourth
                time to sit thru again what's essentially the same stuff. If we had
                it together, training would be a thing to be ENJOYED, not ENDURED -
                and we wouldn't have to spend so much time begging leaders to come
                back and keep current. No wonder we have resistance.

                Apologies for the rant - I know I'm preaching to the choir.

                Gerry Moon
                Orlando, FL

                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Brant Lippincott <brant@...> wrote:
                >
                > no, no, 1000 times no!!!!
                >
                > I could possibly see NLE done that way, but only if there is a
                test, so we could measure some sort of actual viewing of the
                material....
                >
                > I have my quarell with LST (especially the cub portion), where
                we show the same videos to all sections, so they see it as a tiger,
                again as a wolf, then again as a webelos....
                >
                > BUT, there is nothimg like actual human interaction for these
                courses. It helps understand the material.
                >
                > I've heard that NLE will be done, but I sure hope that LST is
                not on the drawing board.
                >
                > For the Boys,
                > Brant
                >
                > PS: I think there is a "virtual campfire" picture on the web
                (Kevin??). THIS board is the virtual campfire conversation....
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
              • kveach@comcast.net
                I think that this statement is a MAJOR part of why new leaders dont get it . MY Pack s cc send out a WHOLE packet of stuff for new leaders to peruse and we
                Message 7 of 25 , Nov 27, 2006
                  I think that this statement is a MAJOR part of why new leaders dont get it . MY Pack's cc send out a WHOLE packet of "stuff" for new leaders to peruse and we tell them to do the online fast start get the leader book and read it. Sound complete right ( we do tell em to attend nle and specific also)

                  I still have leaders come back with goofy ?'s and when I ask them if they have looked at any of this info they say ......... well I haven't had the chance I at this point throw my hands in hte air and go ARGHHHHHHHHHHHHH What do I have to do .i.e. I had a parent ready to take over Cm for me. the first parent registering he spoke to the info he relayed was that a joining wolf had to earn his tiger b4 he could work on wolf .I was stunned what can nyou say I know these new leaders are trying and I have to commend them for stepping up but What as CM can I do to hammer in the whole training thing and the recources that are available for them to get with the program . AHHHHH ok thanks sorry for the rant just extremely frustrated
                  Just my 100 cents
                  YIS
                  Kris
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > (I should probably mention that I had been an advancement chair for 6 years
                  > prior to becoming Cubmaster-yes I have three sons-and that I READ THE CUB
                  > SCOUT LEADER BOOK before I went to training. Crazy I know.)
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > Regards--
                  >
                  > Margo Mead
                  >
                  > Portland, Oregon
                  >
                  > meadclan@...
                  >
                  > www.beadiecritters.com
                  >
                  > www.geocities.com/meadfamily
                  >
                  > www.geocities.com/worldkrahenbuhl
                  >
                  > _____
                  >
                  > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  > Of Dan Kurtenbach
                  > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 10:57 PM
                  > To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  > Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Cub Basic Leader Training - online?
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > I sometimes wonder if we get so caught up in how we deliver training that we
                  >
                  > forget the main point: leaders who have the skill and knowledge to put on
                  > a great Scouting program. How they get that skill and knowledge -- "live"
                  > classes, online, DVD, self-study, observation, roundtables, talking with
                  > other leaders -- should be irrelevant.
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >




                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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