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Re: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

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  • Connie Knie
    It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone?? ... It varies with the type of training. [snip] ... I
    Message 1 of 18 , Oct 4, 2006
      It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone??

      Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...> wrote: Vern Margard wrote:
      > I am a new Pack Trainer, and I’ve been developing a
      > tool for recording and monitoring the training status
      > of our Pack’s leaders. My question has to do with
      > duration – how long is the training good for?

      It varies with the type of training.

      [snip]
      > I would certainly never underestimate the importance
      > of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
      > current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
      > expiration periods for any of its training modules?
      > Is there a ready source for this information? As
      > always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

      I don't have such a reference, but a good rule of thumb is to be conservative. I the training certificate expires after 3 years, but you're encouraged to take it at 2 years, then for your purpose, the certifcate will expire in 2 years.

      If you do it this way, you're less likely to have problems with
      untrained leaders leading an event.

      Hope this helps.


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      connie

      SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Kevin Pate
      ... I suspect you re not the only one to not have heard that. While I personally believe all training is appropriate to revisit on a regular basis, I ve not
      Message 2 of 18 , Oct 4, 2006
        > It came up the other night that BALOO training also
        > has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone??

        I suspect you're not the only one to not have heard
        that. While I personally believe all training is
        appropriate to revisit on a regular basis, I've not
        seen anything that suggests a BALOO card needs an
        'expires two years hence' statement like those found
        for Safe Swim and Safety Afloat or the NAII 4 years
        for archery Level 1 instructors and like some councils
        set for youth protection, climbing instructor, COPE,
        etc.

        Kevin in Norman, America

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      • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
        Not in my council. Pete Mullaney ... From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connie Knie Sent: Wednesday, October 04,
        Message 3 of 18 , Oct 4, 2006
          Not in my council.

          Pete Mullaney

          -----Original Message-----
          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
          Of Connie Knie
          Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:27 AM
          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

          It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had
          not heard that. Anyone??
        • Judy Yeager
          I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I can
          Message 4 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
            I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

            Thanks,

            Judy Yeager


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Rick Pushies
            Hi Judy, An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to get from National. So far I do not believe one exists. However, the Local
            Message 5 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
              Hi Judy,



              An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
              get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.



              However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.



              Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
              Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
              climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
              least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
              Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
              must have completed Basic Adult Leader

              Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
              and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

              The listed BSA training is valid for two years.



              I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
              help out?



              Rick

              From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
              Of Judy Yeager
              Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
              To: Scouter-T
              Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations





              I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
              dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
              can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

              Thanks,

              Judy Yeager

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Teresa Hall
              Don t forget that the faq for the Local Tour Permit specifically says that BALOO is not included in the two-year renewal group.
              Message 6 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
                Don't forget that the faq for the Local Tour Permit specifically says that
                BALOO is not included in the two-year renewal group.

                http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/TourPermitFAQ.aspx

                Teresa

                On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Rick Pushies <rick@...> wrote:

                > Hi Judy,
                >
                >
                >
                > An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                > get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.
                >
                >
                >
                > However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.
                >
                >
                >
                > Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                > Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                > climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                > least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                > Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                > must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO).

                At least one adult must have completed Planning
                > and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.
                >
                > The listed BSA training is valid for two years.
                >
                >
                >
                > I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                > help out?
                >
                >
                >
                > Rick
                >
                > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
                > Behalf
                > Of Judy Yeager
                > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                > To: Scouter-T
                > Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                > dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where
                > I
                > can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.
                >
                > Thanks,
                >
                > Judy Yeager
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >
                >
                >
                > ------------------------------------
                >
                > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Judy Yeager
                Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let s get specific. One
                Message 7 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
                  Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get specific.

                  One of my Training Chairs asked me, "As I understand it Youth Protection does not expire. The only requirement I know if is that someone on the tour permit has to have completed it within the last two years. Is that right or are we forcing the two year requirement on everyone?"

                  Trainers who keep informed of what comes from National - How would you answer this?

                  Judy

                  ----- Original Message -----
                  From: Rick Pushies
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:40 PM
                  Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations



                  Hi Judy,

                  An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                  get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.

                  However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.

                  Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                  Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                  climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                  least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                  Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                  must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                  Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                  and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                  The listed BSA training is valid for two years.

                  I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                  help out?

                  Rick

                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Judy Yeager
                  Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                  To: Scouter-T
                  Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                  I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                  dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                  can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                  Thanks,

                  Judy Yeager

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rick Pushies
                  Hi Judy, Tell your training chair to read the Local Tour Permit. It states: Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the date completed.
                  Message 8 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
                    Hi Judy,



                    Tell your training chair to read the Local Tour Permit. It states:



                    "Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the date completed."



                    "Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy
                    requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours. Coed
                    Venturing crews must have both male and female 21-year-old leaders for
                    overnight activities. All registered adults participating in any nationally
                    conducted event or activity must have completed BSA Youth Protection
                    training. At least one registered adult who has completed BSA Youth
                    Protection training must be present at all other events and activities that
                    require a tour permit. Youth Protection training is valid for two years from
                    the date completed."



                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of Judy Yeager
                    Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:24 PM
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                    Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations





                    Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                    were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                    specific.

                    One of my Training Chairs asked me, "As I understand it Youth Protection
                    does not expire. The only requirement I know if is that someone on the tour
                    permit has to have completed it within the last two years. Is that right or
                    are we forcing the two year requirement on everyone?"

                    Trainers who keep informed of what comes from National - How would you
                    answer this?

                    Judy

                    ----- Original Message -----
                    From: Rick Pushies
                    To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:40 PM
                    Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                    Hi Judy,

                    An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                    get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.

                    However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.

                    Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                    Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                    climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                    least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                    Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                    must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                    Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                    and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                    The listed BSA training is valid for two years.

                    I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                    help out?

                    Rick

                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                    [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                    Behalf
                    Of Judy Yeager
                    Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                    To: Scouter-T
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                    I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                    dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                    can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                    Thanks,

                    Judy Yeager

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Bill
                    Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years. Bill
                    Message 9 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
                      Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.

                      Bill

                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get specific.
                    • Teresa Hall
                      Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is completed says the following on the bottom: *This certification is valid for two years
                      Message 10 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
                        Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is
                        completed says the following on the bottom:

                        *This certification is valid for two years from this date*

                        That should do it.

                        Teresa

                        On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill <bnelson45@...> wrote:

                        > Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.
                        >
                        > Bill
                        >
                        > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                        > >
                        > > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                        > were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                        > specific.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                        > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Judy Yeager
                        Thanks, Teresa. That s what I needed. Judy Yeager ... From: Teresa Hall To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re:
                        Message 11 of 18 , Jan 7, 2010
                          Thanks, Teresa. That's what I needed.

                          Judy Yeager

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Teresa Hall
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:56 PM
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Training Expirations



                          Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is
                          completed says the following on the bottom:

                          *This certification is valid for two years from this date*

                          That should do it.

                          Teresa

                          On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill <bnelson45@...> wrote:

                          > Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.
                          >
                          > Bill
                          >
                          > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                          > >
                          > > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                          > were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                          > specific.
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          > ------------------------------------
                          >
                          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                          > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                          >
                          > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                          >
                          >
                          >
                          >

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • smt451
                          Does anyone know where I can find a complete listing of the effective life of all the adult and youth training courses? I found a partial list in the Spring
                          Message 12 of 18 , Feb 17
                            Does anyone know where I can find a complete listing of the effective life of all the adult and youth training courses? I found a partial list in the Spring 2013 issue of the Advancement News and another somewhat more complete list on one council's web site but it too was several years old.

                            Seems to me that if this is something the units should monitor, we ought to have a ready resource for reference. I tried searching the www.scouting.org web site but other than an occasional reference for a single course, found no list, Why hasn't the national training team made this information available to the rank and file?

                            Ned Darden
                            CC, T451, Pace FL
                            Member Pensacola Bay District Committee


                          • Michael Crothers
                            I don t think any of the time limits have changed except the Trainer s Edge. See below Good afternoon. In the current NYLT, Wood Badge, NAYLE and PLC syllabi,
                            Message 13 of 18 , Feb 17
                              I don't think any of the time limits have changed except the Trainer's Edge.

                              See below

                              Good afternoon.

                              In the current NYLT, Wood Badge, NAYLE and PLC syllabi, we require that all staff take Trainers EDGE before staffing, and if people continue to staff that they renew their Trainers EDGE every 3 or 5 years.  When this requirement was written, I believe the intent was to ensure that trainers remain current in training methods taught by BSA.  However, the Trainers EDGE syllabus has not changed much over the years and simply repeating Trainers EDGE does not make better trainers or presenters!    

                              This past weekend we discussed this requirement with the Scouting U group.  At the conclusion of the discussion, Scouting U agreed that moving forward, we will continue to require all NYLT, NAYLE, Wood Badge and Leadership Challenge staff take Trainers EDGE, ONCE!  Returning staff will no longer have to repeat the course!  

                              We will update the language in all syllabi during the 2017/2018 release cycle.  In the mean time please share with your NYLT, Wood Badge, NAYLE and Leadership Challenge folks this requirement change.

                              I want to add that we all know that all people who are asked to staff are not good presenters, even after taking Trainers EDGE. Sometimes, trainers may improve after proper feed back and coaching; sometimes they don't.  Sometimes, weak trainers should not be invited back to staff again.  Next year, we will strengthen our language around coaching and staff preparation in all syllabi.

                              Another way to help your youth staff to become better presenters is to encourage them to attend the NYLT Leadership Academy.  Most NYLT youth staff who attend the leadership academy return home much stronger presenters!  You might suggest to your future course directors that they encourage their future NYLT youth staff to consider attending a session of NYLT Leadership Academy.  You can find information and registration links at www.nylt-leadershipacademy.org  

                              Tom Giugni, Vice Chairman
                              Leadership Development, Scouting U
                              Boy Scouts of America
                               
                              Yours In Scouting
                              Mike Crothers 



                              From: "smt451@... [scouter_t]" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                              Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 1:27 PM
                              Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                               
                              Does anyone know where I can find a complete listing of the effective life of all the adult and youth training courses? I found a partial list in the Spring 2013 issue of the Advancement News and another somewhat more complete list on one council's web site but it too was several years old.

                              Seems to me that if this is something the units should monitor, we ought to have a ready resource for reference. I tried searching the www.scouting.org web site but other than an occasional reference for a single course, found no list, Why hasn't the national training team made this information available to the rank and file?

                              Ned Darden
                              CC, T451, Pace FL
                              Member Pensacola Bay District Committee



                            • Paul Yelk
                              Here s what was current as of March 10, 2014. I have it on a spreadsheet. *Training Recertification* *Last updated: March 10, 2014* Course *Code* *Course
                              Message 14 of 18 , Feb 17
                                Here's what was current as of March 10, 2014. I have it on a spreadsheet.


                                Training Recertification
                                Last updated: March 10, 2014
                                Course


                                CodeCourse DescriptionSpring 2011Spring 2013
                                Y0nYouth Protectionevery two yearsevery two years (one year for jamboree)
                                CSnnNational Camping Schoolgood for five camping seasons
                                SSDSafe Swim Defenseevery two yearsevery two years
                                S83Paddle Craft Safetyevery three years

                                Aquatics Supervision/ Swimming and Water Rescueevery three years
                                S81BSA Lifeguardevery three yearsevery three years
                                CS5nVisitation trainingevery two years

                                Climbing Lead Instructorevery two years
                                S75Climbing Instructorevery two years
                                CS58COPE/Climbing Inspectorevery two years
                                SASafety Afloatevery two yearsevery two years
                                S59Chain Saw Safetyevery two years
                                H96Trainer’s EDGEevery three yearsevery three years for Wood Badge and NYLT Staff
                                WS81Hazardous Weatherevery two yearsevery two years
                                SPWPhysical Wellnessevery two years
                                S74 / WS74Climb On Safelyevery two yearsevery two years
                                S76Trek Safelyevery two yearsevery two years

                                That is the latest I have.

                                Paul Yelk
                                Council Training Registrar
                                Inland Northwest Council
                                Spokane WA
                                "Once a Fox, always a Fox"



                                On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 11:33 AM, Michael Crothers dowrightbw@... [scouter_t] <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com> wrote:
                                 

                                I don't think any of the time limits have changed except the Trainer's Edge.

                                See below

                                Good afternoon.

                                In the current NYLT, Wood Badge, NAYLE and PLC syllabi, we require that all staff take Trainers EDGE before staffing, and if people continue to staff that they renew their Trainers EDGE every 3 or 5 years.  When this requirement was written, I believe the intent was to ensure that trainers remain current in training methods taught by BSA.  However, the Trainers EDGE syllabus has not changed much over the years and simply repeating Trainers EDGE does not make better trainers or presenters!    

                                This past weekend we discussed this requirement with the Scouting U group.  At the conclusion of the discussion, Scouting U agreed that moving forward, we will continue to require all NYLT, NAYLE, Wood Badge and Leadership Challenge staff take Trainers EDGE, ONCE!  Returning staff will no longer have to repeat the course!  

                                We will update the language in all syllabi during the 2017/2018 release cycle.  In the mean time please share with your NYLT, Wood Badge, NAYLE and Leadership Challenge folks this requirement change.

                                I want to add that we all know that all people who are asked to staff are not good presenters, even after taking Trainers EDGE. Sometimes, trainers may improve after proper feed back and coaching; sometimes they don't.  Sometimes, weak trainers should not be invited back to staff again.  Next year, we will strengthen our language around coaching and staff preparation in all syllabi.

                                Another way to help your youth staff to become better presenters is to encourage them to attend the NYLT Leadership Academy.  Most NYLT youth staff who attend the leadership academy return home much stronger presenters!  You might suggest to your future course directors that they encourage their future NYLT youth staff to consider attending a session of NYLT Leadership Academy.  You can find information and registration links at www.nylt-leadershipacademy.org  

                                Tom Giugni, Vice Chairman
                                Leadership Development, Scouting U
                                Boy Scouts of America
                                 
                                Yours In Scouting
                                Mike Crothers 



                                From: "smt451@... [scouter_t]" <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 1:27 PM
                                Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                                 
                                Does anyone know where I can find a complete listing of the effective life of all the adult and youth training courses? I found a partial list in the Spring 2013 issue of the Advancement News and another somewhat more complete list on one council's web site but it too was several years old.

                                Seems to me that if this is something the units should monitor, we ought to have a ready resource for reference. I tried searching the www.scouting.org web site but other than an occasional reference for a single course, found no list, Why hasn't the national training team made this information available to the rank and file?

                                Ned Darden
                                CC, T451, Pace FL
                                Member Pensacola Bay District Committee




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