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RE: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

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  • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
    Certain ones vary from council to council. Our Youth Protection is good for 3 years, I believe for some councils it is only good for 2 years. My council
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 3, 2006
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      Certain ones vary from council to council. Our Youth Protection is good for
      3 years, I believe for some councils it is only good for 2 years. My
      council training committee was/is trying to implement that any 'position'
      training done prior to 2000 has to be redone/updated.
      Standard cards for "Safe Swim Defense", and "Safety Afloat" say that they
      are good for two years from the date off the course.

      Ramble off -

      Pete Mullaney

      -----Original Message-----
      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
      Of Vern Margard
      Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:57 PM
      To: Scout Leader Training; scouts-l@...
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

      I am a new Pack Trainer, and I've been developing a
      tool for recording and monitoring the training status
      of our Pack's leaders. My question has to do with
      duration - how long is the training good for?

      I often hear someone say that a training certificate
      has expired. Some of this is commonplace, like CPR.
      Some of it less so (I've been told that Rangemaster
      training, for example, is only good for 2 years).

      I would certainly never underestimate the importance
      of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
      current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
      expiration periods for any of its training modules?
      Is there a ready source for this information? As
      always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

      Vern Margard
      Cubmaster, Pack 180
      Pack Trainer, Pack 417
      Asst. Scoutmaster, Troop 417
      Buckeye Dist., Simon Kenton Council
    • Tom Burke
      Our BSA Trainings regarding Leader Positions do not expire. Once you are trained, you are trained. It can get difficult when a leader was trained under one
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 3, 2006
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        Our BSA Trainings regarding Leader Positions do not expire. Once you are trained, you are trained. It can get difficult when a leader was trained under one program, and then a new program is released - example ScoutMaster. Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills replaced a portion of the previous Scoutmaster training requirements. So, it is possible to have a trained scoutmaster who has not taken IOLS. (Confused yet?)
        Some Councils have set individual council requirements - example - Youth Protection at least every three years. You must go by what your council has established.

        There are a few courses which have built in expirations. My Climbing Instructor Certificate is good for two years. A National Camp School Trained Climbing Director is certified for 5 years. A BSA Lifeguard (Youth or Adult) is good for three years.

        Other Organizations have set the length of certification for their courses -ex, American Red Cross: CPR - 1 year, First Aid - three years, Instructors - two years with automatic renewal if you teach the prescribed courses in that period.

        So, there you go - If it doesn't say it expires, and your council hasn't set more strict guidelines, its still good.

        Tom Burke
        Great Rivers Council Training Committee

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Vern Margard
        To: Scout Leader Training ; scouts-l@...
        Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:56 PM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations


        I am a new Pack Trainer, and I've been developing a
        tool for recording and monitoring the training status
        of our Pack's leaders. My question has to do with
        duration - how long is the training good for?

        I often hear someone say that a training certificate
        has expired. Some of this is commonplace, like CPR.
        Some of it less so (I've been told that Rangemaster
        training, for example, is only good for 2 years).

        I would certainly never underestimate the importance
        of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
        current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
        expiration periods for any of its training modules?
        Is there a ready source for this information? As
        always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

        Vern Margard
        Cubmaster, Pack 180
        Pack Trainer, Pack 417
        Asst. Scoutmaster, Troop 417
        Buckeye Dist., Simon Kenton Council

        __________________________________________________
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        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scouter Chuck
        ... It varies with the type of training. [snip] ... I don t have such a reference, but a good rule of thumb is to be conservative. I the training certificate
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 3, 2006
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          Vern Margard wrote:
          > I am a new Pack Trainer, and I’ve been developing a
          > tool for recording and monitoring the training status
          > of our Pack’s leaders. My question has to do with
          > duration – how long is the training good for?

          It varies with the type of training.

          [snip]
          > I would certainly never underestimate the importance
          > of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
          > current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
          > expiration periods for any of its training modules?
          > Is there a ready source for this information? As
          > always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

          I don't have such a reference, but a good rule of thumb is to be conservative. I the training certificate expires after 3 years, but you're encouraged to take it at 2 years, then for your purpose, the certifcate will expire in 2 years.

          If you do it this way, you're less likely to have problems with
          untrained leaders leading an event.

          Hope this helps.
        • Connie Knie
          It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone?? ... It varies with the type of training. [snip] ... I
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 4, 2006
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            It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone??

            Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...> wrote: Vern Margard wrote:
            > I am a new Pack Trainer, and I’ve been developing a
            > tool for recording and monitoring the training status
            > of our Pack’s leaders. My question has to do with
            > duration – how long is the training good for?

            It varies with the type of training.

            [snip]
            > I would certainly never underestimate the importance
            > of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
            > current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
            > expiration periods for any of its training modules?
            > Is there a ready source for this information? As
            > always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

            I don't have such a reference, but a good rule of thumb is to be conservative. I the training certificate expires after 3 years, but you're encouraged to take it at 2 years, then for your purpose, the certifcate will expire in 2 years.

            If you do it this way, you're less likely to have problems with
            untrained leaders leading an event.

            Hope this helps.


            For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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            connie

            SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Kevin Pate
            ... I suspect you re not the only one to not have heard that. While I personally believe all training is appropriate to revisit on a regular basis, I ve not
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 4, 2006
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              > It came up the other night that BALOO training also
              > has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone??

              I suspect you're not the only one to not have heard
              that. While I personally believe all training is
              appropriate to revisit on a regular basis, I've not
              seen anything that suggests a BALOO card needs an
              'expires two years hence' statement like those found
              for Safe Swim and Safety Afloat or the NAII 4 years
              for archery Level 1 instructors and like some councils
              set for youth protection, climbing instructor, COPE,
              etc.

              Kevin in Norman, America

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            • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
              Not in my council. Pete Mullaney ... From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connie Knie Sent: Wednesday, October 04,
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 4, 2006
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                Not in my council.

                Pete Mullaney

                -----Original Message-----
                From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                Of Connie Knie
                Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:27 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had
                not heard that. Anyone??
              • Judy Yeager
                I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I can
                Message 7 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                  I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                  Thanks,

                  Judy Yeager


                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Rick Pushies
                  Hi Judy, An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to get from National. So far I do not believe one exists. However, the Local
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                    Hi Judy,



                    An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                    get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.



                    However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.



                    Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                    Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                    climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                    least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                    Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                    must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                    Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                    and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                    The listed BSA training is valid for two years.



                    I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                    help out?



                    Rick

                    From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                    Of Judy Yeager
                    Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                    To: Scouter-T
                    Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations





                    I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                    dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                    can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                    Thanks,

                    Judy Yeager

                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Teresa Hall
                    Don t forget that the faq for the Local Tour Permit specifically says that BALOO is not included in the two-year renewal group.
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                      Don't forget that the faq for the Local Tour Permit specifically says that
                      BALOO is not included in the two-year renewal group.

                      http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/TourPermitFAQ.aspx

                      Teresa

                      On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Rick Pushies <rick@...> wrote:

                      > Hi Judy,
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                      > get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                      > Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                      > climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                      > least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                      > Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                      > must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO).

                      At least one adult must have completed Planning
                      > and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.
                      >
                      > The listed BSA training is valid for two years.
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                      > help out?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > Rick
                      >
                      > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
                      > Behalf
                      > Of Judy Yeager
                      > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                      > To: Scouter-T
                      > Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                      > dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where
                      > I
                      > can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.
                      >
                      > Thanks,
                      >
                      > Judy Yeager
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > ------------------------------------
                      >
                      > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                      > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                      >
                      > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Judy Yeager
                      Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let s get specific. One
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                        Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get specific.

                        One of my Training Chairs asked me, "As I understand it Youth Protection does not expire. The only requirement I know if is that someone on the tour permit has to have completed it within the last two years. Is that right or are we forcing the two year requirement on everyone?"

                        Trainers who keep informed of what comes from National - How would you answer this?

                        Judy

                        ----- Original Message -----
                        From: Rick Pushies
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:40 PM
                        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations



                        Hi Judy,

                        An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                        get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.

                        However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.

                        Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                        Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                        climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                        least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                        Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                        must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                        Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                        and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                        The listed BSA training is valid for two years.

                        I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                        help out?

                        Rick

                        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                        Of Judy Yeager
                        Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                        To: Scouter-T
                        Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                        I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                        dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                        can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                        Thanks,

                        Judy Yeager

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Rick Pushies
                        Hi Judy, Tell your training chair to read the Local Tour Permit. It states: Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the date completed.
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                          Hi Judy,



                          Tell your training chair to read the Local Tour Permit. It states:



                          "Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the date completed."



                          "Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy
                          requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours. Coed
                          Venturing crews must have both male and female 21-year-old leaders for
                          overnight activities. All registered adults participating in any nationally
                          conducted event or activity must have completed BSA Youth Protection
                          training. At least one registered adult who has completed BSA Youth
                          Protection training must be present at all other events and activities that
                          require a tour permit. Youth Protection training is valid for two years from
                          the date completed."



                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of Judy Yeager
                          Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:24 PM
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations





                          Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                          were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                          specific.

                          One of my Training Chairs asked me, "As I understand it Youth Protection
                          does not expire. The only requirement I know if is that someone on the tour
                          permit has to have completed it within the last two years. Is that right or
                          are we forcing the two year requirement on everyone?"

                          Trainers who keep informed of what comes from National - How would you
                          answer this?

                          Judy

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Rick Pushies
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                          Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:40 PM
                          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                          Hi Judy,

                          An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                          get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.

                          However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.

                          Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                          Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                          climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                          least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                          Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                          must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                          Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                          and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                          The listed BSA training is valid for two years.

                          I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                          help out?

                          Rick

                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                          [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                          Behalf
                          Of Judy Yeager
                          Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                          To: Scouter-T
                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                          I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                          dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                          can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                          Thanks,

                          Judy Yeager

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Bill
                          Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years. Bill
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                            Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.

                            Bill

                            --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                            >
                            > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get specific.
                          • Teresa Hall
                            Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is completed says the following on the bottom: *This certification is valid for two years
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                              Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is
                              completed says the following on the bottom:

                              *This certification is valid for two years from this date*

                              That should do it.

                              Teresa

                              On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill <bnelson45@...> wrote:

                              > Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.
                              >
                              > Bill
                              >
                              > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                              > >
                              > > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                              > were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                              > specific.
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              > ------------------------------------
                              >
                              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                              > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                              >
                              > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                              >
                              >
                              >
                              >


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Judy Yeager
                              Thanks, Teresa. That s what I needed. Judy Yeager ... From: Teresa Hall To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re:
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                                Thanks, Teresa. That's what I needed.

                                Judy Yeager

                                ----- Original Message -----
                                From: Teresa Hall
                                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:56 PM
                                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Training Expirations



                                Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is
                                completed says the following on the bottom:

                                *This certification is valid for two years from this date*

                                That should do it.

                                Teresa

                                On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill <bnelson45@...> wrote:

                                > Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.
                                >
                                > Bill
                                >
                                > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                                > were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                                > specific.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >

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