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Training Expirations

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  • Vern Margard
    I am a new Pack Trainer, and I’ve been developing a tool for recording and monitoring the training status of our Pack’s leaders. My question has to do
    Message 1 of 15 , Oct 3, 2006
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      I am a new Pack Trainer, and I’ve been developing a
      tool for recording and monitoring the training status
      of our Pack’s leaders. My question has to do with
      duration – how long is the training good for?

      I often hear someone say that a training certificate
      has expired. Some of this is commonplace, like CPR.
      Some of it less so (I’ve been told that Rangemaster
      training, for example, is only good for 2 years).

      I would certainly never underestimate the importance
      of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
      current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
      expiration periods for any of its training modules?
      Is there a ready source for this information? As
      always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

      Vern Margard
      Cubmaster, Pack 180
      Pack Trainer, Pack 417
      Asst. Scoutmaster, Troop 417
      Buckeye Dist., Simon Kenton Council


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    • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
      Certain ones vary from council to council. Our Youth Protection is good for 3 years, I believe for some councils it is only good for 2 years. My council
      Message 2 of 15 , Oct 3, 2006
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        Certain ones vary from council to council. Our Youth Protection is good for
        3 years, I believe for some councils it is only good for 2 years. My
        council training committee was/is trying to implement that any 'position'
        training done prior to 2000 has to be redone/updated.
        Standard cards for "Safe Swim Defense", and "Safety Afloat" say that they
        are good for two years from the date off the course.

        Ramble off -

        Pete Mullaney

        -----Original Message-----
        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
        Of Vern Margard
        Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 3:57 PM
        To: Scout Leader Training; scouts-l@...
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

        I am a new Pack Trainer, and I've been developing a
        tool for recording and monitoring the training status
        of our Pack's leaders. My question has to do with
        duration - how long is the training good for?

        I often hear someone say that a training certificate
        has expired. Some of this is commonplace, like CPR.
        Some of it less so (I've been told that Rangemaster
        training, for example, is only good for 2 years).

        I would certainly never underestimate the importance
        of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
        current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
        expiration periods for any of its training modules?
        Is there a ready source for this information? As
        always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

        Vern Margard
        Cubmaster, Pack 180
        Pack Trainer, Pack 417
        Asst. Scoutmaster, Troop 417
        Buckeye Dist., Simon Kenton Council
      • Tom Burke
        Our BSA Trainings regarding Leader Positions do not expire. Once you are trained, you are trained. It can get difficult when a leader was trained under one
        Message 3 of 15 , Oct 3, 2006
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          Our BSA Trainings regarding Leader Positions do not expire. Once you are trained, you are trained. It can get difficult when a leader was trained under one program, and then a new program is released - example ScoutMaster. Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills replaced a portion of the previous Scoutmaster training requirements. So, it is possible to have a trained scoutmaster who has not taken IOLS. (Confused yet?)
          Some Councils have set individual council requirements - example - Youth Protection at least every three years. You must go by what your council has established.

          There are a few courses which have built in expirations. My Climbing Instructor Certificate is good for two years. A National Camp School Trained Climbing Director is certified for 5 years. A BSA Lifeguard (Youth or Adult) is good for three years.

          Other Organizations have set the length of certification for their courses -ex, American Red Cross: CPR - 1 year, First Aid - three years, Instructors - two years with automatic renewal if you teach the prescribed courses in that period.

          So, there you go - If it doesn't say it expires, and your council hasn't set more strict guidelines, its still good.

          Tom Burke
          Great Rivers Council Training Committee

          ----- Original Message -----
          From: Vern Margard
          To: Scout Leader Training ; scouts-l@...
          Sent: Tuesday, October 03, 2006 2:56 PM
          Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations


          I am a new Pack Trainer, and I've been developing a
          tool for recording and monitoring the training status
          of our Pack's leaders. My question has to do with
          duration - how long is the training good for?

          I often hear someone say that a training certificate
          has expired. Some of this is commonplace, like CPR.
          Some of it less so (I've been told that Rangemaster
          training, for example, is only good for 2 years).

          I would certainly never underestimate the importance
          of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
          current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
          expiration periods for any of its training modules?
          Is there a ready source for this information? As
          always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

          Vern Margard
          Cubmaster, Pack 180
          Pack Trainer, Pack 417
          Asst. Scoutmaster, Troop 417
          Buckeye Dist., Simon Kenton Council

          __________________________________________________
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          Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
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          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • Scouter Chuck
          ... It varies with the type of training. [snip] ... I don t have such a reference, but a good rule of thumb is to be conservative. I the training certificate
          Message 4 of 15 , Oct 3, 2006
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            Vern Margard wrote:
            > I am a new Pack Trainer, and I’ve been developing a
            > tool for recording and monitoring the training status
            > of our Pack’s leaders. My question has to do with
            > duration – how long is the training good for?

            It varies with the type of training.

            [snip]
            > I would certainly never underestimate the importance
            > of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
            > current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
            > expiration periods for any of its training modules?
            > Is there a ready source for this information? As
            > always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

            I don't have such a reference, but a good rule of thumb is to be conservative. I the training certificate expires after 3 years, but you're encouraged to take it at 2 years, then for your purpose, the certifcate will expire in 2 years.

            If you do it this way, you're less likely to have problems with
            untrained leaders leading an event.

            Hope this helps.
          • Connie Knie
            It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone?? ... It varies with the type of training. [snip] ... I
            Message 5 of 15 , Oct 4, 2006
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              It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone??

              Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...> wrote: Vern Margard wrote:
              > I am a new Pack Trainer, and I’ve been developing a
              > tool for recording and monitoring the training status
              > of our Pack’s leaders. My question has to do with
              > duration – how long is the training good for?

              It varies with the type of training.

              [snip]
              > I would certainly never underestimate the importance
              > of training, or the value of being retrained to keep
              > current. But does BSA have any clearly articulated
              > expiration periods for any of its training modules?
              > Is there a ready source for this information? As
              > always, chapter and verse would be helpful.

              I don't have such a reference, but a good rule of thumb is to be conservative. I the training certificate expires after 3 years, but you're encouraged to take it at 2 years, then for your purpose, the certifcate will expire in 2 years.

              If you do it this way, you're less likely to have problems with
              untrained leaders leading an event.

              Hope this helps.


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              scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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              connie

              SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Kevin Pate
              ... I suspect you re not the only one to not have heard that. While I personally believe all training is appropriate to revisit on a regular basis, I ve not
              Message 6 of 15 , Oct 4, 2006
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                > It came up the other night that BALOO training also
                > has to be renewed. I had not heard that. Anyone??

                I suspect you're not the only one to not have heard
                that. While I personally believe all training is
                appropriate to revisit on a regular basis, I've not
                seen anything that suggests a BALOO card needs an
                'expires two years hence' statement like those found
                for Safe Swim and Safety Afloat or the NAII 4 years
                for archery Level 1 instructors and like some councils
                set for youth protection, climbing instructor, COPE,
                etc.

                Kevin in Norman, America

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              • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
                Not in my council. Pete Mullaney ... From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Connie Knie Sent: Wednesday, October 04,
                Message 7 of 15 , Oct 4, 2006
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                  Not in my council.

                  Pete Mullaney

                  -----Original Message-----
                  From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                  Of Connie Knie
                  Sent: Wednesday, October 04, 2006 7:27 AM
                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                  It came up the other night that BALOO training also has to be renewed. I had
                  not heard that. Anyone??
                • Judy Yeager
                  I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I can
                  Message 8 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                    I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                    Thanks,

                    Judy Yeager


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Rick Pushies
                    Hi Judy, An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to get from National. So far I do not believe one exists. However, the Local
                    Message 9 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                      Hi Judy,



                      An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                      get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.



                      However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.



                      Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                      Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                      climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                      least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                      Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                      must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                      Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                      and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                      The listed BSA training is valid for two years.



                      I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                      help out?



                      Rick

                      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                      Of Judy Yeager
                      Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                      To: Scouter-T
                      Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations





                      I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                      dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                      can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                      Thanks,

                      Judy Yeager

                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Teresa Hall
                      Don t forget that the faq for the Local Tour Permit specifically says that BALOO is not included in the two-year renewal group.
                      Message 10 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                        Don't forget that the faq for the Local Tour Permit specifically says that
                        BALOO is not included in the two-year renewal group.

                        http://www.scouting.org/scoutsource/HealthandSafety/TourPermitFAQ.aspx

                        Teresa

                        On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 3:40 PM, Rick Pushies <rick@...> wrote:

                        > Hi Judy,
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                        > get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                        > Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                        > climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                        > least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                        > Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                        > must have completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation (BALOO).

                        At least one adult must have completed Planning
                        > and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.
                        >
                        > The listed BSA training is valid for two years.
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                        > help out?
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > Rick
                        >
                        > From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
                        > Behalf
                        > Of Judy Yeager
                        > Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                        > To: Scouter-T
                        > Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                        > dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where
                        > I
                        > can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.
                        >
                        > Thanks,
                        >
                        > Judy Yeager
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > ------------------------------------
                        >
                        > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                        > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Judy Yeager
                        Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let s get specific. One
                        Message 11 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                          Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get specific.

                          One of my Training Chairs asked me, "As I understand it Youth Protection does not expire. The only requirement I know if is that someone on the tour permit has to have completed it within the last two years. Is that right or are we forcing the two year requirement on everyone?"

                          Trainers who keep informed of what comes from National - How would you answer this?

                          Judy

                          ----- Original Message -----
                          From: Rick Pushies
                          To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                          Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:40 PM
                          Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations



                          Hi Judy,

                          An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                          get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.

                          However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.

                          Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                          Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                          climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                          least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                          Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                          must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                          Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                          and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                          The listed BSA training is valid for two years.

                          I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                          help out?

                          Rick

                          From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                          Of Judy Yeager
                          Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                          To: Scouter-T
                          Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                          I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                          dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                          can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                          Thanks,

                          Judy Yeager

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Rick Pushies
                          Hi Judy, Tell your training chair to read the Local Tour Permit. It states: Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the date completed.
                          Message 12 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                            Hi Judy,



                            Tell your training chair to read the Local Tour Permit. It states:



                            "Youth Protection training is valid for two years from the date completed."



                            "Leadership and Youth Protection Training: Boy Scouts of America policy
                            requires at least two adult leaders on all camping trips and tours. Coed
                            Venturing crews must have both male and female 21-year-old leaders for
                            overnight activities. All registered adults participating in any nationally
                            conducted event or activity must have completed BSA Youth Protection
                            training. At least one registered adult who has completed BSA Youth
                            Protection training must be present at all other events and activities that
                            require a tour permit. Youth Protection training is valid for two years from
                            the date completed."



                            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf
                            Of Judy Yeager
                            Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 2:24 PM
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations





                            Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                            were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                            specific.

                            One of my Training Chairs asked me, "As I understand it Youth Protection
                            does not expire. The only requirement I know if is that someone on the tour
                            permit has to have completed it within the last two years. Is that right or
                            are we forcing the two year requirement on everyone?"

                            Trainers who keep informed of what comes from National - How would you
                            answer this?

                            Judy

                            ----- Original Message -----
                            From: Rick Pushies
                            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                            Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 3:40 PM
                            Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                            Hi Judy,

                            An all inclusive up to date list of training expirations would be nice to
                            get from National. So far I do not believe one exists.

                            However, the Local Tour Permit answers some of your questions.

                            Activity Standards: Where swimming or boating is included in the program,
                            Safe Swim Defense and/or Safety Afloat standards are to be followed. If
                            climbing/rappelling is included, then Climb On Safely must be followed. At
                            least one person must be trained in CPR from any recognized agency for
                            Safety Afloat and Climb On Safely. At least one adult on a pack overnighter
                            must have completed Basic Adult Leader

                            Outdoor Orientation (BALOO). At least one adult must have completed Planning
                            and Preparing for Hazardous Weather training for all tours.

                            The listed BSA training is valid for two years.

                            I'm not certain about other expiration dates. Maybe others in the group can
                            help out?

                            Rick

                            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com>
                            [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <mailto:scouter_t%40yahoogroups.com> ] On
                            Behalf
                            Of Judy Yeager
                            Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 1:14 PM
                            To: Scouter-T
                            Subject: [Scouter_T] Training Expirations

                            I remember seeing a list of trainings that National has placed expiration
                            dates on such as Safe Swim, 2 years, etc. Does anyone have a link to where I
                            can find this "official" list. Need chapter and verse.

                            Thanks,

                            Judy Yeager

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]





                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Bill
                            Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years. Bill
                            Message 13 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                              Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.

                              Bill

                              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                              >
                              > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get specific.
                            • Teresa Hall
                              Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is completed says the following on the bottom: *This certification is valid for two years
                              Message 14 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                                Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is
                                completed says the following on the bottom:

                                *This certification is valid for two years from this date*

                                That should do it.

                                Teresa

                                On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill <bnelson45@...> wrote:

                                > Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.
                                >
                                > Bill
                                >
                                > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                                > >
                                > > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                                > were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                                > specific.
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                > ------------------------------------
                                >
                                > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                >
                                > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                >
                                >
                                >
                                >


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Judy Yeager
                                Thanks, Teresa. That s what I needed. Judy Yeager ... From: Teresa Hall To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:56 PM Subject: Re:
                                Message 15 of 15 , Jan 7, 2010
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                                  Thanks, Teresa. That's what I needed.

                                  Judy Yeager

                                  ----- Original Message -----
                                  From: Teresa Hall
                                  To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                                  Sent: Thursday, January 07, 2010 5:56 PM
                                  Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: Training Expirations



                                  Judy, the trained certificate that prints off when the online version is
                                  completed says the following on the bottom:

                                  *This certification is valid for two years from this date*

                                  That should do it.

                                  Teresa

                                  On Thu, Jan 7, 2010 at 4:39 PM, Bill <bnelson45@...> wrote:

                                  > Youth Leader Training needs to be taken every 2 years.
                                  >
                                  > Bill
                                  >
                                  > --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@...> wrote:
                                  > >
                                  > > Ok, I found the list that I referenced in the April Training Updates that
                                  > were copied from National. It did not answer my question, so let's get
                                  > specific.
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > ------------------------------------
                                  >
                                  > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/Yahoo! Groups Links
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >

                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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