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Re: Sharing Files(Illegally)

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  • Paul
    BSA grants us all the right to make copies for our use of books we buy that are BSA printed and BSA copywrited, It does not give us the right to publish this
    Message 1 of 6 , Sep 2, 2006
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      BSA grants us all the right to make copies for our use of books we
      buy that are BSA printed and BSA copywrited, It does not give us the
      right to publish this same material on the Internet. There is a big
      difference between the two.

      If its copywrited material it should not be on the internet. If you
      had done this with a book you bought at amazon, they would already
      be sueing you.




      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Scouter Chuck <antelope95@...>

      wrote:
      >
      > Paul <plamson13642@...> wrote:
      >
      > > It amaze's me that we push our scouts to follow the Oath and
      Law,
      > > yet we as scouters continually break the law by illegally
      posting
      > > copywrited material on the internet. If this was a busniness
      site
      > > you would already be in court like the music/movie people.
      >
      > I've held my peace on this issue for several years, and through
      > several discussions. I can't really hold it any longer.
      >
      > What amazes me is that we will allow our rights to be taken from
      us by
      > people who want to make more money, without fighting back on the
      > concept.
      >
      > Before Bill Gates and the Napster fiasco, radio stations would
      help
      > you get a tape copy of an out of print recording. You could put
      an LP
      > on tape, and no one cared. Now, you can't even legally make a
      copy of
      > a CD you bought, so that you can keep it in the car to play, and
      not
      > have to risk it being stolen or damaged.
      >
      > In the specific case of Scouting material, I remember being told
      one
      > time, either in person or on one of these groups (Scouts-L?) that
      as
      > leaders we had the right to copy any BSA material that wasn't
      > specifically prohibited from copy. Much of my training material
      was
      > made that way, by others who used it for handouts to the training
      > courses I attended.
      >
      > I don't know what the BSA lawyers will say or are saying about
      this
      > issue, but the _only_ BSA training material I know of that copying
      was
      > banned is the Blanchard Woodbadge material from the original WB21C.
      >
      > Now, with regard to law -- our laws are interpreted by the courts
      (or
      > misinterpreted, to some). In the 1930's, the courts interpreted
      the
      > Second Amendment to mean that it was legal for members of the
      militia
      > to have arms in their homes, but that didn't apply to the public
      at
      > large.
      >
      > Now, the courts are interpreting the First Amendment to mean
      different
      > things than we've believed for 200+ years. "Separation of Church
      and
      > State" is being used to erase all evidence of religion from public
      > property. (Even though the Ten Commandments are engraved on the
      wall
      > of the US Supreme Court -- displayed right behind the 9 judges'
      > seats.)
      >
      > "Freedom of the Press" is being used to justify or excuse
      selectively
      > reporting stories to deliberately slant the reader's opinions,
      while
      > "Freedom of Speech" is being used to slander or shout down anyone
      who
      > disagrees with you.
      >
      > Even on these Scouting lists. :(
      >
      > Soap box off -- see you all sometime next week.
      >
      > YiS,
      >
      > Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
      > I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-
      10-95
      > Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon
      Council
      > Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member
      DNRC
      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      > "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
      > -- Stephen R.
      Covey
      > -------------------------------------------------------------------
      ---
      >
    • jstech
      i believe you ll find that scout materials can be copied for scout use. Scout materials are not there just to fatten up the coffers of National ... From: Paul
      Message 2 of 6 , Sep 2, 2006
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        i believe you'll find that scout materials can be copied for scout use.
        Scout materials are not there just to fatten up the coffers of National
        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Paul
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Sent: Friday, September 01, 2006 8:03 PM
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Sharing Files(Illegally)


        It amaze's me that we push our scouts to follow the Oath and Law,
        yet we as scouters continually break the law by illegally posting
        copywrited material on the internet. If this was a busniness site
        you would already be in court like the music/movie people.

        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Ida Lively <Ilively@...> wrote:
        >
        > Most of the syllabi are available for download at:
        >
        > http://jvcbsa.centrecounty.org/training/Committee/
        >
        > Username: jvctraining
        > PW: bsatrainer2006
        >
        > Once logged in, on the LEFT frame, choose "Syllabi and Training
        Codes"
        >
        > Here's what you'll find: (PDF - portable document format, PPS -
        PowerPoint Slideshow)
        >
        > NLE pdf pps
        > OWL-2005 pdf
        > OWL (pre 2005) pdf
        > Den Chief - 2004 pdf
        > CSLST Cubmaster pdf pps
        > CSLST Tiger DL pdf pps
        > CSLST DL pdf pps
        > CSLST Committee pdf pps
        > CSLST Webelos DL pdf pps
        > Trainer Development Conference pdf
        > Charter Org. Rep Training pdf
        > Troop Comm. Challenge pdf
        > IOLS pdf
        > IOLS recipes -- local content pdf
        > SM/ASM Specific pdf pps
        > Venturing Leader Specific pdf pps
        >
        > Most of the big courses (OWL, IOLS, etc.) are broken into
        sections -- i.e. Woods Tools. This was done so that I could send
        just the section needed to my trainers.
        >
        > I *believe* I have others, such as the new Troop Training, and
        NYLT, but I don't see them on the website. I'll see if there's a
        reason that our webmeister took them offline.
        >
        >
        > BTW, You're welcome.
        >
        > Ida
        > - Juniata Valley Council, Nittany Mountain District Training Chair
        >
        >
        >
        > P.S. If you have a need to share files, if you have a G-Mail
        (google mail) account, you can post files -- even large ones -- for
        free at: base.google.com
        >
        > If you need an invitation to G-mail, email me OFF-LIST (!!!!!!!)
        and I'll send you an invitation. I have 50 available. My husband
        has 100, and my son has 100, so a large portion of the list can have
        g-mail accounts if they wish, but ONLY if they e-mail me off list.
        >






        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Kevin Pate
        Ladies and Gentlemen, Scouters all. While I won t claim to be the definitive word on the matter, I do think all of the the following information is true. BSA
        Message 3 of 6 , Sep 2, 2006
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          Ladies and Gentlemen, Scouters all.

          While I won't claim to be the definitive word on the
          matter, I do think all of the the following
          information is true.

          BSA holds valid, registered copyright protection on
          some 99% PLUS of its materials, including but not
          limited to written materials such as training syllibi,
          handbooks, guidebooks, m badge books, certificates,
          badge cards, etc., etc., etc. as it's a long, long
          list. (It may actually be 100%, but that's more study

          than I've ever given the matter.)


          Copyright law provides, in part:

          a time frame for the valifity of protection
          on a copyrighted work.

          to the holder of the copyright, which may or
          may not be the author, authority to pursue
          remedies due to actions which infringe the
          copyright protection afforded to a work.

          a reasonably outlined means to secure permission,
          from the holder of the copyright protection, to
          make and/or distribute copies.

          a reasonably understood multi-prong test on
          what constitutes fair use of a copyrighted work
          even in the absence of the express permission of
          the holder of the copyright.


          Copying 100% of a work can potentially give rise to a
          valid claim of copyright infringement against someone
          by the holder of the copyright protection. Such a
          claim may lead to treble damages on a registered work,
          plus considerable other expenses. For unregistered
          works, provable actual damages plus expenses, which
          again, could be considerable, would be the available
          remedy to the holder of the copyright.

          BSA has never, to my knowledge, sought an action
          against a volunteer for copying and distributing
          training materials that are under copyright
          protection.

          Only BSA has the authority to press an action to
          protect BSA's rights as a copyright holder.



          That being noted, I'll close simply by adding this
          opinion: Both the "It's OK" and the "It's Not OK"
          camps appear to be correct, at this time.

          (a) Much of what appears to occur regarding
          training syllabi falls squarely into a
          category of conduct which could reasonably
          be expected to result in a recovery for
          BSA if BSA elected to pursue a copyright
          infringment action.

          (b) BSA, though entitled to take action if
          and when it should choose to do so, shows
          little to no signs of any interest to take
          such action in situations where no one is
          seeking any form of personal gain, even
          though wide spread copying and distribution
          limits sales and can lead to increased
          production costs.



          Kevin in Norman, America


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