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Re: [Scouter_T] Duplicate Messages

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  • Wendell Brown
    ... If you go into your yahoo group settings you can change to Text Only (I think that s what it s called) and turn off the new feature . :)
    Message 1 of 12 , Jul 6, 2006
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      JNDunnMN@... wrote:

      > On another list type topic, has anyone noticed that you can't really
      > edit a message when you reply, since Yahoo changed to the new format?
      > This must be frustrating for those of you on digest. I used to be
      > pretty scrupulous about just resending the text to which I was
      > replying, but now I can't take out the extra text and Yahoo footers,
      > etc.

      If you go into your yahoo group settings you can change to "Text Only"
      (I think that's what it's called) and turn off the new "feature". :)
    • Ida Lively
      ... I finally took the time to do this today. When logged into Yahoo, go to MY GROUPS. Select EMAIL PREFERENCES Select EDIT under OPTIONS Under MESSAGE
      Message 2 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Wendell Brown <wbrown@...> wrote:

        >
        > If you go into your yahoo group settings you can change to "Text Only"
        > (I think that's what it's called) and turn off the new "feature". :)
        >

        I finally took the time to do this today.

        When logged into Yahoo, go to MY GROUPS.
        Select EMAIL PREFERENCES
        Select EDIT under OPTIONS
        Under MESSAGE PREFERENCE select TRADITIONAL (as opposed to "fully featured")
        then click SAVE CHANGES

        If you have multiple e-mail accounts you'll need to do this for each account


        Ida
      • C. P. Walker
        Recently we had a discussion here about administering meds at summer camp....we have just returned and this year something happened that should not have
        Message 3 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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          Recently we had a discussion here about administering meds at summer camp....we have just returned and this year something happened that should not have happened. I have two sons on the autism spectrum and they each take some very powerful medication. The evening meds were placed in a certain place in the dining room and the camper was expected to pick them up as he left. (not a fool proof idea) Anyway one evening the wrong med was left for my older son. I brought it to the attention of the nearest official, and he didn't think it was a serious matter. Our younger son was allowed to keep his med as it is a transdermal patch that he applies to his backside 30 min before he gets up in the am._

          Carol

          Carol

          Carol_,_._,___



          ---------------------------------
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        • corinnajones@comcast.net
          Carol, This is what the Guide to Safe Scouting states (online version on scouting.org): Prescriptions The taking of prescription medication is the
          Message 4 of 12 , Jul 11, 2006
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            Carol,
            This is what the Guide to Safe Scouting states (online version on scouting.org):
            "Prescriptions
            The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the individual taking the medication and/or that individual's parent or guardian. A Scout leader, after obtaining all the necessary information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a Scout takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but BSA policy does not mandate nor necessarily encourage the Scout leader to do so. Also, if your state laws are more limiting, they must be followed."
            Basically, if the parent is not at camp another adult can take responsibility. All instructions should be clearly spelled out, and the medication should be has to be stored in a secured location. In your sons' case proper administering is extremely important, and it would make sense to take time out and speak with the person taking responsibility to help them understand the seriousness. At that point it would be up to you if you think this individual would be doing it properly or if you would rather not give them the responsibility.
            Any health information for youth and adults need to be clearly stated and understood by the person in charge. There should be no embarrassment and holding back, because it could be a big risk.

            Neither one of my older boys takes medication, but I believe at our council camps the boys go to the health lodge for their medication, and it is administered by the health & safety officer. If you need verification it could take a few days.

            HTH,
            Corinna


            ----- Original Message -----
            From: C. P. Walker
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Sent: Tuesday, July 11, 2006 2:06 PM
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Re: medication at summer camp


            Recently we had a discussion here about administering meds at summer camp....we have just returned and this year something happened that should not have happened. I have two sons on the autism spectrum and they each take some very powerful medication. The evening meds were placed in a certain place in the dining room and the camper was expected to pick them up as he left. (not a fool proof idea) Anyway one evening the wrong med was left for my older son. I brought it to the attention of the nearest official, and he didn't think it was a serious matter. Our younger son was allowed to keep his med as it is a transdermal patch that he applies to his backside 30 min before he gets up in the am._

            Carol

            Carol

            Carol_,_._,___


            ---------------------------------
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            Get on board. You're invited to try the new Yahoo! Mail Beta.

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]






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          • Connie Knie
            That sounds entirely too lacksidasical for my comfort level. There should have been a health officer stationed there and when a scout came up for meds, she got
            Message 5 of 12 , Jul 12, 2006
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              That sounds entirely too lacksidasical for my comfort level. There should have been a health officer stationed there and when a scout came up for meds, she got out the paperwork, checked out that the right med was being administered and then handed out the correct does to the scout, he has to take it in her presence and then she notes that it was taken..................

              "C. P. Walker" <walcar43@...> wrote: Recently we had a discussion here about administering meds at summer camp....we have just returned and this year something happened that should not have happened.




              connie

              SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
              http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Scouter Chuck
              I haven t checked in on this thread yet, as all the posts began with Re: , and I kept looking back for the original post. I finally decided to check tonight,
              Message 6 of 12 , Jul 16, 2006
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                I haven't checked in on this thread yet, as all the posts began with
                "Re:", and I kept looking back for the original post. I finally
                decided to check tonight, and found that there were only the 3 I saw
                in my inbox. Sorry for not checking sooner.

                Now...

                C. P. Walker wrote...
                > Recently we had a discussion here about administering meds at summer
                > camp....we have just returned and this year something happened that
                > should not have happened. I have two sons on the autism spectrum
                > and they each take some very powerful medication. The evening meds
                > were placed in a certain place in the dining room and the camper was
                > expected to pick them up as he left. (not a fool proof idea)

                This points out very dramatically that the issue of kids and
                prescription meds is very poorly understood, both by the people
                responsible for making the policies and those enforcing the policies.

                For one thing, an autistic child would not have developed the same
                level of personal responsibility as a "normal" child, and cannot be
                expected to be responsible for his own medication schedule. For
                another, medications for Autism, ADHD, Bi-Polar disorder, and other
                similar disorders are not in the same class as those for diabetes,
                heart or stomach problems, or certain allergies, and cannot be treated
                in the same "one size fits all" way.

                > Anyway one evening the wrong med was left for my older son.

                It is really surprising to me that this does not happen more
                frequently that it does, considering the myriad of state laws, Council
                rules, and camp staff attitudes that we've all run into.

                > I brought it to the attention of the nearest official, and he didn't
                > think it was a serious matter.

                Not until it's his son that ends up with a problem because he missed a
                dose or got the wrong med.

                > Our younger son was allowed to keep his med as it is a transdermal
                > patch that he applies to his backside 30 min before he gets up in
                > the am._

                Which I find a bit confusing, as I have met few kids of Scouting age
                that actually can wake up 30 minutes before they are supposed to get
                up, and apply such a patch to their skin. Most that I have seen are
                "dead to the world" until revelly, and then get up with the blinding
                speed of molasses flowing uphill in Alaska in January. Of course,
                that all changes when the bladder is involved.

                Then Corinna Jones wrote...

                > This is what the Guide to Safe Scouting states (online version on
                > scouting.org):
                > "Prescriptions
                > The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the
                > individual taking the medication and/or that individual's parent or
                > guardian. A Scout leader, after obtaining all the necessary
                > information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a
                > Scout takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but
                > BSA policy does not mandate nor necessarily encourage the Scout
                > leader to do so. Also, if your state laws are more limiting, they
                > must be followed."

                Unfortunately, in this case the G2SS says absolutely nothing that is
                really helpful.

                > Basically, if the parent is not at camp another adult can take
                > responsibility. All instructions should be clearly spelled out, and
                > the medication should be has to be stored in a secured location.

                This seems to be the "common sense" approach to this problem.
                However, what it says to me is that we leaders have a basic problem
                with "trust". We don't trust our boys to take the medications as they
                should, we don't trust the boys taking the medications to not sell
                them (or give them) to others, and we don't trust the other boys (or
                leaders) to not steal them.

                Of course, having been involved with a Troop that had such a problem
                at one time, this kind of a policy was the easiest way to prevent a
                recurrence. In our case, the boy wasn't taking his meds as he should,
                and realized 2 days before then end of camp that he'd missed taking it
                for 3 days -- so took all of them at the same time to bring himself up
                to date. Fortunately, one of the leaders found him before his
                condition got serious, but if anything had happened, the Troop leaders
                would have been held liable. He did make a trip to the local hospital
                ER, until his blood pressure stabilized. (It was extremely low.)

                > In your sons' case proper administering is extremely important, and
                > it would make sense to take time out and speak with the person
                > taking responsibility to help them understand the seriousness.

                In addition to speaking with the person, I would also have the
                instructions written out for them, as well as the reasons why them
                must be taken in that way, and why the boy must be monitored at all.
                Included should be some information as to what could happen if the boy
                missed a dose, or got the wrong medication.

                > At that point it would be up to you if you think this individual
                > would be doing it properly or if you would rather not give them the
                > responsibility.

                In many cases, you don't even have that choice.

                > Any health information for youth and adults need to be clearly
                > stated and understood by the person in charge. There should be no
                > embarrassment and holding back, because it could be a big risk.

                Exactly. Referring to the case in my old Troop, the result was an
                addition to the PPS that asked the parent to list any and all meds the
                child was taking for _any_ reason, and a member of the adult staff was
                assigned the responsibility of making sure that each boy got the
                correct medication at the correct time. That addition also stated
                that if the boy was caught taking a medication that was not listed,
                the boy would be sent home.

                > Neither one of my older boys takes medication, but I believe at our
                > council camps the boys go to the health lodge for their medication,
                > and it is administered by the health & safety officer. If you need
                > verification it could take a few days.

                I don't agree with the meds being kep at the health lodge, for a very
                simple and basic reason. You send "Johnny" to the health lodge for
                his morning dose of Ritalin, and on the way there he sees a skunk,
                deer, or friend from another unit. Johnny never makes it to the
                health lodge, or to breakfast, and when the search finds him, he's
                busily engrossed in watching the animal, or conversing with his
                friend. (I've seen it happen.)

                Also, having an adult escort the boys to the HL to get their meds is
                less than ideal, as it takes the adults time to make sure the kid gets
                there, and back. There's also the problem that is seen a lot in some
                schools, where the kid who goes to the nurse for any problem on a
                daily basis is assumed by the rest of the kids to be "one of those ADD
                kids".

                Connie Knie wrote... (of the original problem)
                > That sounds entirely too lacksidasical for my comfort level. There
                > should have been a health officer stationed there and when a scout
                > came up for meds, she got out the paperwork, checked out that the
                > right med was being administered and then handed out the correct
                > does to the scout, he has to take it in her presence and then she
                > notes that it was taken..................

                Sounds great, in theory. In practice, that eats up about 5 minutes
                per boy, because to be _really_ safe, the meds would be in a secured
                location, and the "health officer" would have to go get each med for
                each boy.

                Also, as soon as the assumption is made that meds should be dispensed
                at the dining hall, because all the boys take their meds with meals,
                you'll run into one who is different. He'll either have to take his a
                half hour before eating, 2 hours after eating, or on an odd schedule
                like "every 2 1/2" hours.

                I'm not trying to be contrarian, but I'm really not a big fan of any
                of these systems. Any system that is used should have as its main
                function making sure that the boy gets his meds when he should, in the
                proper dosage, without drawing unnecessary attention to him.

                Ideally, each boy should be able to be responsible for his own meds.
                That isn't always possible. Meds will sometimes get lost or
                misplaced, even with the best care the boys will take of them.
                Occasionally, some may even get stolen.

                So, of all the different ways to handle this, the best one would seem
                to be that they be taken care of in the unit area, by an assigned
                adult leader. And even that isn't possible in all states, because
                some states have laws that dictate who can take care of them.

                I'll have to research this, as I seem to remember an article in one of
                the magazines I'm familiar with, that concerns this topic. When I
                find it (or if) I'll let you folks know.

                YiS,

                Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                -- Stephen R. Covey
                ----------------------------------------------------------------------
              • C. P. Walker
                Scouter Chuck wrote in response to my original post, Basically, if the parent is not at camp another adult can take ... I WAS at camp but turned in the
                Message 7 of 12 , Jul 18, 2006
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                  Scouter Chuck wrote in response to my original post,

                  "Basically, if the parent is not at camp another adult can take
                  > responsibility. All instructions should be clearly spelled out, and
                  > the medication should be has to be stored in a secured location. "

                  I WAS at camp but turned in the medication to the health officer. For the past three years I have been allowed to hold the meds myself for both boys having received permission to do so in advance. This year I was intimidated by strong language in leader's guide re dispensing of meds, and was afraid to ask to hold them myself. From the discussion we had on this topic previously, I came away with the understanding that not complying was a serious offense. I received permission to hold the patches for the younger boy because of the need to apply before getting up. (and, yes, he could not do this on his own...I treked over every morning and stuck my hand in the tent and shook his cot.)

                  Other than the evening when the wrong meds were left, there were two other problems we encountered. One, another member of our troop picked up the meds one evening and brought them to the table. Two, because the meds weren't swallowed till bedtime, the risk of losing them was great, or maybe another scout could gain access to them.

                  Thanks, everyone, for all your input. I have just realized that I posted this to the wrong list and I apologize.

                  Carol





                  I haven't checked in on this thread yet, as all the posts began with
                  "Re:", and I kept looking back for the original post. I finally
                  decided to check tonight, and found that there were only the 3 I saw
                  in my inbox. Sorry for not checking sooner.

                  Now...

                  C. P. Walker wrote...
                  > Recently we had a discussion here about administering meds at summer
                  > camp....we have just returned and this year something happened that
                  > should not have happened. I have two sons on the autism spectrum
                  > and they each take some very powerful medication. The evening meds
                  > were placed in a certain place in the dining room and the camper was
                  > expected to pick them up as he left. (not a fool proof idea)

                  This points out very dramatically that the issue of kids and
                  prescription meds is very poorly understood, both by the people
                  responsible for making the policies and those enforcing the policies.

                  For one thing, an autistic child would not have developed the same
                  level of personal responsibility as a "normal" child, and cannot be
                  expected to be responsible for his own medication schedule. For
                  another, medications for Autism, ADHD, Bi-Polar disorder, and other
                  similar disorders are not in the same class as those for diabetes,
                  heart or stomach problems, or certain allergies, and cannot be treated
                  in the same "one size fits all" way.

                  > Anyway one evening the wrong med was left for my older son.

                  It is really surprising to me that this does not happen more
                  frequently that it does, considering the myriad of state laws, Council
                  rules, and camp staff attitudes that we've all run into.

                  > I brought it to the attention of the nearest official, and he didn't
                  > think it was a serious matter.

                  Not until it's his son that ends up with a problem because he missed a
                  dose or got the wrong med.

                  > Our younger son was allowed to keep his med as it is a transdermal
                  > patch that he applies to his backside 30 min before he gets up in
                  > the am._

                  Which I find a bit confusing, as I have met few kids of Scouting age
                  that actually can wake up 30 minutes before they are supposed to get
                  up, and apply such a patch to their skin. Most that I have seen are
                  "dead to the world" until revelly, and then get up with the blinding
                  speed of molasses flowing uphill in Alaska in January. Of course,
                  that all changes when the bladder is involved.

                  Then Corinna Jones wrote...

                  > This is what the Guide to Safe Scouting states (online version on
                  > scouting.org):
                  > "Prescriptions
                  > The taking of prescription medication is the responsibility of the
                  > individual taking the medication and/or that individual's parent or
                  > guardian. A Scout leader, after obtaining all the necessary
                  > information, can agree to accept the responsibility of making sure a
                  > Scout takes the necessary medication at the appropriate time, but
                  > BSA policy does not mandate nor necessarily encourage the Scout
                  > leader to do so. Also, if your state laws are more limiting, they
                  > must be followed."

                  Unfortunately, in this case the G2SS says absolutely nothing that is
                  really helpful.

                  > Basically, if the parent is not at camp another adult can take
                  > responsibility. All instructions should be clearly spelled out, and
                  > the medication should be has to be stored in a secured location.

                  This seems to be the "common sense" approach to this problem.
                  However, what it says to me is that we leaders have a basic problem
                  with "trust". We don't trust our boys to take the medications as they
                  should, we don't trust the boys taking the medications to not sell
                  them (or give them) to others, and we don't trust the other boys (or
                  leaders) to not steal them.

                  Of course, having been involved with a Troop that had such a problem
                  at one time, this kind of a policy was the easiest way to prevent a
                  recurrence. In our case, the boy wasn't taking his meds as he should,
                  and realized 2 days before then end of camp that he'd missed taking it
                  for 3 days -- so took all of them at the same time to bring himself up
                  to date. Fortunately, one of the leaders found him before his
                  condition got serious, but if anything had happened, the Troop leaders
                  would have been held liable. He did make a trip to the local hospital
                  ER, until his blood pressure stabilized. (It was extremely low.)

                  > In your sons' case proper administering is extremely important, and
                  > it would make sense to take time out and speak with the person
                  > taking responsibility to help them understand the seriousness.

                  In addition to speaking with the person, I would also have the
                  instructions written out for them, as well as the reasons why them
                  must be taken in that way, and why the boy must be monitored at all.
                  Included should be some information as to what could happen if the boy
                  missed a dose, or got the wrong medication.

                  > At that point it would be up to you if you think this individual
                  > would be doing it properly or if you would rather not give them the
                  > responsibility.

                  In many cases, you don't even have that choice.

                  > Any health information for youth and adults need to be clearly
                  > stated and understood by the person in charge. There should be no
                  > embarrassment and holding back, because it could be a big risk.

                  Exactly. Referring to the case in my old Troop, the result was an
                  addition to the PPS that asked the parent to list any and all meds the
                  child was taking for _any_ reason, and a member of the adult staff was
                  assigned the responsibility of making sure that each boy got the
                  correct medication at the correct time. That addition also stated
                  that if the boy was caught taking a medication that was not listed,
                  the boy would be sent home.

                  > Neither one of my older boys takes medication, but I believe at our
                  > council camps the boys go to the health lodge for their medication,
                  > and it is administered by the health & safety officer. If you need
                  > verification it could take a few days.

                  I don't agree with the meds being kep at the health lodge, for a very
                  simple and basic reason. You send "Johnny" to the health lodge for
                  his morning dose of Ritalin, and on the way there he sees a skunk,
                  deer, or friend from another unit. Johnny never makes it to the
                  health lodge, or to breakfast, and when the search finds him, he's
                  busily engrossed in watching the animal, or conversing with his
                  friend. (I've seen it happen.)

                  Also, having an adult escort the boys to the HL to get their meds is
                  less than ideal, as it takes the adults time to make sure the kid gets
                  there, and back. There's also the problem that is seen a lot in some
                  schools, where the kid who goes to the nurse for any problem on a
                  daily basis is assumed by the rest of the kids to be "one of those ADD
                  kids".

                  Connie Knie wrote... (of the original problem)
                  > That sounds entirely too lacksidasical for my comfort level. There
                  > should have been a health officer stationed there and when a scout
                  > came up for meds, she got out the paperwork, checked out that the
                  > right med was being administered and then handed out the correct
                  > does to the scout, he has to take it in her presence and then she
                  > notes that it was taken..................

                  Sounds great, in theory. In practice, that eats up about 5 minutes
                  per boy, because to be _really_ safe, the meds would be in a secured
                  location, and the "health officer" would have to go get each med for
                  each boy.

                  Also, as soon as the assumption is made that meds should be dispensed
                  at the dining hall, because all the boys take their meds with meals,
                  you'll run into one who is different. He'll either have to take his a
                  half hour before eating, 2 hours after eating, or on an odd schedule
                  like "every 2 1/2" hours.

                  I'm not trying to be contrarian, but I'm really not a big fan of any
                  of these systems. Any system that is used should have as its main
                  function making sure that the boy gets his meds when he should, in the
                  proper dosage, without drawing unnecessary attention to him.

                  Ideally, each boy should be able to be responsible for his own meds.
                  That isn't always possible. Meds will sometimes get lost or
                  misplaced, even with the best care the boys will take of them.
                  Occasionally, some may even get stolen.

                  So, of all the different ways to handle this, the best one would seem
                  to be that they be taken care of in the unit area, by an assigned
                  adult leader. And even that isn't possible in all states, because
                  some states have laws that dictate who can take care of them.

                  I'll have to research this, as I seem to remember an article in one of
                  the magazines I'm familiar with, that concerns this topic. When I
                  find it (or if) I'll let you folks know.

                  YiS,

                  Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                  I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                  Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                  Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                  ----------------------------------------------------------
                  "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                  -- Stephen R. Covey
                  ----------------------------------------------------------





                  ---------------------------------
                  Want to be your own boss? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business.

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Scouter Chuck
                  Carol wrote... ... If these are your _own_ children, I believe you should be able to hold the meds for them. If they are Scouts from your unit, but not
                  Message 8 of 12 , Jul 19, 2006
                  • 0 Attachment
                    Carol wrote...

                    > Scouter Chuck wrote in response to my original post,
                    > > "Basically, if the parent is not at camp another adult can take
                    > > responsibility. All instructions should be clearly spelled out,
                    > > and the medication should be has to be stored in a secured
                    > > location. "
                    >
                    > I WAS at camp but turned in the medication to the health officer.
                    > For the past three years I have been allowed to hold the meds myself
                    > for both boys having received permission to do so in advance. This
                    > year I was intimidated by strong language in leader's guide re
                    > dispensing of meds, and was afraid to ask to hold them myself. From
                    > the discussion we had on this topic previously, I came away with the
                    > understanding that not complying was a serious offense.

                    If these are your _own_ children, I believe you should be able to hold
                    the meds for them. If they are Scouts from your unit, but not related
                    to you, then you must follow the camp rules/state law.

                    > I received permission to hold the patches for the younger boy
                    > because of the need to apply before getting up. (and, yes, he could
                    > not do this on his own...I treked over every morning and stuck my
                    > hand in the tent and shook his cot.)

                    Good plan.

                    > Other than the evening when the wrong meds were left, there were two
                    > other problems we encountered. One, another member of our troop
                    > picked up the meds one evening and brought them to the table.

                    If the meds were left out where just anyone could get them, that in
                    itself was likely a violation of policy. If the Camp Staff was of no
                    help, perhaps the Field Services Director or Camping Program Chair for
                    the council could be impressed with how potentially serious this could
                    be.

                    > Two, because the meds weren't swallowed till bedtime, the risk of
                    > losing them was great, or maybe another scout could gain access to
                    > them.

                    If they are needed until bedtime, WIH are they being dispensed at
                    Dinner? There _is_ a real chance for loss here. The meds should not
                    be provided to the boy until it is actually time to take them. If the
                    Health Officer is required to hold them, then the HO should be
                    required to be _up_ and awake to dispense the bedtime meds.

                    These rules are not there for the convenience of the HO or the camp,
                    they are there for (supposedly) the protection of the boys. They
                    cannot be only partially enforced.

                    YiS,

                    Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
                    I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
                    Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
                    Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
                    "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
                    -- Stephen R. Covey
                    ----------------------------------------------------------------------
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