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Cub Camping Requirements

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  • Ilively@adelphia.net
    Okay ... here s one for you. I need REFERENCE BACKUP. We re having Cub Scouts camp at our Council Camporee. People are VERY confused as to what the ratios
    Message 1 of 8 , May 1, 2006
      Okay ... here's one for you. I need REFERENCE BACKUP.

      We're having Cub Scouts camp at our Council Camporee. People are VERY confused as to what the ratios need to be. Even people who have been to CAMP SCHOOL are giving what seems like VERY ODD answers.

      I'm viewing the Cub Pack camping at the Camporee as if it were a PACK campout anywhere else. That's right, right?


      In order to take Cub Scouts Camping:

      1) What ratio (adult/child) should there be?
      2) What BALOO requirements must be met?

      Someone who has been to camp school said "If you have parents, then the 'Baloo/Cub' ratio changes." My understanding is 1 BALOO person can supervise a Pack campout, no matter if the pack is 20 people, or 200 people.

      Now ... I need reference backup that I can point to in order to slap down some of these people who insist on spreading bad information.

      Thanks!

      Ida
    • Kent Wolfe
      Ida, Sounds to me you have a few things to determine. I know you asked for reference on the ratio, but I don t have a place to point you on that. However, to
      Message 2 of 8 , May 1, 2006
        Ida,
        Sounds to me you have a few things to determine. I know you asked for
        reference on the ratio, but I don't have a place to point you on that.
        However, to me it sounds like you have to designate the type of event
        that it is. If it is a council event, the requirements for a
        council-sponsored event applies -- and therefore, who can/must attend
        and in what ratios. If it is a pack event for which a location is
        supplied, each pack must have BALOO person present. Regardless, any
        Tiger Cub needs to have a parent with him. Additionally, Cubs through
        Webelos can only participate in events planned appropriately for their
        ages, so they can't participate in any Boy Scout camporee events.

        That's my quick $0.02.

        Kent Wolfe



        -----Original Message-----
        From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On
        Behalf Of Ilively@...
        Sent: Monday, May 01, 2006 10:38 AM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Cub Camping Requirements

        Okay ... here's one for you. I need REFERENCE BACKUP.

        We're having Cub Scouts camp at our Council Camporee. People are VERY
        confused as to what the ratios need to be. Even people who have been to
        CAMP SCHOOL are giving what seems like VERY ODD answers.

        I'm viewing the Cub Pack camping at the Camporee as if it were a PACK
        campout anywhere else. That's right, right?


        In order to take Cub Scouts Camping:

        1) What ratio (adult/child) should there be?
        2) What BALOO requirements must be met?

        Someone who has been to camp school said "If you have parents, then the
        'Baloo/Cub' ratio changes." My understanding is 1 BALOO person can
        supervise a Pack campout, no matter if the pack is 20 people, or 200
        people.

        Now ... I need reference backup that I can point to in order to slap
        down some of these people who insist on spreading bad information.

        Thanks!

        Ida



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      • Ann Puckett
        Once again - please be sure to refer to the Guide for Safe Scouting: http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/toc.html Family Camping Family camping: an outdoor
        Message 3 of 8 , May 1, 2006
          Once again - please be sure to refer to the Guide for
          Safe Scouting:
          http://www.scouting.org/pubs/gss/toc.html

          Family Camping

          Family camping: an outdoor camping experience, other
          than resident camping, that involves Cub Scouting, Boy
          Scouting, or Venturing program elements in overnight
          settings with two or more family members, including at
          least one BSA member of that family. Parents are
          responsible for the supervision of their children, and
          Youth Protection guidelines apply.
          Recreational family camping

          Recreational family camping: when Scouting families
          camp as a family unit outside of an organized program.
          It is a nonstructured camping experience, but is
          conducted within a Scouting framework on local
          council-owned or -managed property. Local councils may
          have family camping grounds available for rental at
          reasonable rates. Other resources may include
          equipment, information, and training.
          Cub Scout Overnight Opportunities

          Cub Scouts may experience overnight activities in
          venues other than accredited resident camping. There
          are two categories of Cub Scout overnighters:
          Council-Organized Family Camp

          Council-organized family camps are overnight events
          involving more than one pack. The local council
          provides all of the elements of the outdoor
          experience, such as staffing, food service, housing,
          and program. These are often referred to as Parent/Pal
          or Adventure weekends. Council-organized family camps
          should be conducted by trained leaders at sites
          approved by the local council. In most cases, the
          youth member will be under the supervision of a parent
          or guardian. In all cases, each youth participant is
          responsible to a specific adult.

          Overnight activities involving more than one pack must
          be approved by the council. Council-organized family
          camps must be conducted in accordance with established
          standards as given in National Standards for
          Council-Organized Family Camping, No. 13-408.
          Pack Overnighters

          These are pack-organized overnight events involving
          more than one family from a single pack, focused on
          age-appropriate Cub Scout activities and conducted at
          council-approved locations (councils use Pack
          Overnighter Site Approval Form, No. 13-508). If
          nonmembers (siblings) participate, the event must be
          structured accordingly to accommodate them. BSA health
          and safety and youth protection guidelines apply. In
          most cases, each youth member will be under the
          supervision of a parent or guardian. In all cases,
          each youth participant is responsible to a specific
          adult.

          At least one adult on a pack overnighter must have
          completed Basic Adult Leader Outdoor Orientation
          (BALOO, No. 34162) to properly understand the
          importance of program intent, youth protection
          guidelines, health and safety, site selection,
          age-appropriate activities, and sufficient adult
          participation. Permits for campouts shall be issued
          locally. Packs use Local Tour Permit Application, No.
          34426.

          --- Ilively@... wrote:

          > Okay ... here's one for you. I need REFERENCE
          > BACKUP.
          >
          > We're having Cub Scouts camp at our Council
          > Camporee. People are VERY confused as to what the
          > ratios need to be. Even people who have been to
          > CAMP SCHOOL are giving what seems like VERY ODD
          > answers.
          >
          > I'm viewing the Cub Pack camping at the Camporee as
          > if it were a PACK campout anywhere else. That's
          > right, right?
          >
          >
          > In order to take Cub Scouts Camping:
          >
          > 1) What ratio (adult/child) should there be?
          > 2) What BALOO requirements must be met?
          >
          > Someone who has been to camp school said "If you
          > have parents, then the 'Baloo/Cub' ratio changes."
          > My understanding is 1 BALOO person can supervise a
          > Pack campout, no matter if the pack is 20 people, or
          > 200 people.
          >
          > Now ... I need reference backup that I can point to
          > in order to slap down some of these people who
          > insist on spreading bad information.
          >
          > Thanks!
          >
          > Ida
          >
          >


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        • Brant Lippincott
          Ida, Don t have my BALOO syllabus with me - or my OWL, for that matter.... But I KNOW the OWL one makes mention of this: I suspect that it is in the BALOO
          Message 4 of 8 , May 1, 2006
            Ida,

            Don't have my BALOO syllabus with me - or my OWL, for that matter....

            But I KNOW the OWL one makes mention of this: I suspect that it is in the BALOO syllabus as well.

            "Each boy is to be under the supervision of an adult."

            Back in the OLD days, we had ratios. I seem to remember a 3-to-1 ratio. The NEW rule makes a lot more sense. Especially for WEBELOS overnighters.

            CUB camping is a FAMILY event, so I would expect that each boy would come with their OWN parent or legal guardian. Of course, siblings are welcome and since each family is coming, they would each be responsible for thier OWN kids - no matter how many they brought. So said, I would hate like heck for "a couple" of boys to be excluded because their parent(s) could not or would not go on the campout. In this case, the boy should be under the supervision of some other parent. You should be SURE to have approprate permission slips - including permission to treat - in the event of an emergency.

            It would NOT be CUB camping if a den showed up with a two or three leaders - that would defeat the idea of CUB camping as a FAMILY event. I'm also sure that the BALOO syllabus speaks to the concept of PACK campouts.

            It was not all that long ago when PACKS did not go camping.

            Hope this helps. I'll TRY and see if I can find this in my syllabus!

            For the Boys,
            Brant

            Ilively@... wrote:
            Okay ... here's one for you. I need REFERENCE BACKUP.

            We're having Cub Scouts camp at our Council Camporee. People are VERY confused as to what the ratios need to be. Even people who have been to CAMP SCHOOL are giving what seems like VERY ODD answers.

            I'm viewing the Cub Pack camping at the Camporee as if it were a PACK campout anywhere else. That's right, right?


            In order to take Cub Scouts Camping:

            1) What ratio (adult/child) should there be?
            2) What BALOO requirements must be met?

            Someone who has been to camp school said "If you have parents, then the 'Baloo/Cub' ratio changes." My understanding is 1 BALOO person can supervise a Pack campout, no matter if the pack is 20 people, or 200 people.

            Now ... I need reference backup that I can point to in order to slap down some of these people who insist on spreading bad information.

            Thanks!

            Ida


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Ann Puckett
            The rules are pretty clear in the Guide to Safe Scouting
            Message 5 of 8 , May 1, 2006
              The rules are pretty clear in the Guide to Safe
              Scouting
            • Connie Knie
              If this is a council sponsored event BALOO does not apply at all. It is not a pack campout that involves only your pack..........from the sounds of it. There
              Message 6 of 8 , May 1, 2006
                If this is a council sponsored event BALOO does not apply at all. It is not a pack campout that involves only your pack..........from the sounds of it. There are no longer any ratios per say......only that each boy must be under the direct supervision of an adult. That is for all functions. Now that does not negate the one on one for Tigers.

                Ilively@... wrote: Okay ... here's one for you. I need REFERENCE BACKUP.

                We're having Cub Scouts camp at our Council Camporee. People are VERY confused as to what the ratios need to be. Even people who have been to CAMP SCHOOL are giving what seems like VERY ODD answers.



                connie

                SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • John Halter
                I believe someone else made reference to this but I didn t see any clarification. You mention Council Camporee . I would assume that means a Boy Scout
                Message 7 of 8 , May 1, 2006
                  I believe someone else made reference to this but I didn't see any
                  clarification. You mention 'Council Camporee'. I would assume that
                  means a Boy Scout camporee, is that correct?

                  Thank you,

                  John Halter
                  Pack Trainer
                  Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                  www.pack230.com
                  Assistant Scoutmaster
                  Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                  Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                  www.wekiwa.org
                  "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                  ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442



                  Ilively@... wrote:
                  > Okay ... here's one for you. I need REFERENCE BACKUP.
                  >
                  > We're having Cub Scouts camp at our Council Camporee. People are VERY
                  > confused as to what the ratios need to be. Even people who have been
                  > to CAMP SCHOOL are giving what seems like VERY ODD answers.
                  >
                  > I'm viewing the Cub Pack camping at the Camporee as if it were a PACK
                  > campout anywhere else. That's right, right?
                  >
                  >
                  > In order to take Cub Scouts Camping:
                  >
                  > 1) What ratio (adult/child) should there be?
                  > 2) What BALOO requirements must be met?
                  >
                  > Someone who has been to camp school said "If you have parents, then
                  > the 'Baloo/Cub' ratio changes." My understanding is 1 BALOO person
                  > can supervise a Pack campout, no matter if the pack is 20 people, or
                  > 200 people.
                  >
                  > Now ... I need reference backup that I can point to in order to slap
                  > down some of these people who insist on spreading bad information.
                  >
                  > Thanks!
                  >
                  > Ida
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
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                • ed5870@aol.com
                  In a message dated 5/1/2006 11:38:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time, Ilively@adelphia.net writes: 1) What ratio (adult/child) should there be? 2) What BALOO
                  Message 8 of 8 , May 3, 2006
                    In a message dated 5/1/2006 11:38:59 A.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                    Ilively@... writes:

                    1) What ratio (adult/child) should there be?
                    2) What BALOO requirements must be met?


                    The ratio is to be decided by the local council
                    The BALOO trained leader must be on the trip and the campsite must be
                    approved by council

                    Ed Harvey
                    Cub Training Chair Tri-Valley District
                    Every Cub Scout deserves a Trained Leader
                    THE HEART OF SCOUTING IS TRAINING
                    Hudson Valley Council
                    I used to be an Antelope


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