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Re: [Scouter_T] New poll for scouter_t

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  • corinnajones@comcast.net
    Sorry, but my answer does not quite fit what you might be looking for, and I hope it s okay to post this for all. This is a quote from my Council s website:
    Message 1 of 16 , Apr 10, 2006
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      Sorry, but my answer does not quite fit what you might be looking for, and I hope it's okay to post this for all.
      This is a quote from my Council's website: "Youth Protection Training (YPT) is a required course for all adults who work with Scouts (registered adults and non-registered adults)"
      In a way I could respond "yes", but I think our requirement is stricter, and I like it that way.
      Thanks,
      Corinna
      Pack Trainer
      Troop Committee Member
      Unit Commissioner
      Detroit Area Council
      ----- Original Message -----
      From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Sent: Monday, April 10, 2006 2:42 PM
      Subject: [Scouter_T] New poll for scouter_t



      Enter your vote today! A new poll has been created for the
      scouter_t group:

      Does your COUNCIL require Youth Protection in order to be considered "trained"?

      o YES
      o NO
      o Unsure


      To vote, please visit the following web page:
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scouter_t/surveys?id=2197009

      Note: Please do not reply to this message. Poll votes are
      not collected via email. To vote, you must go to the Yahoo! Groups
      web site listed above.

      Thanks!










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      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • JNDunnMN
      My response must be qualified as well. We require YP training, and require that it be redone every two years. However, leaders receive their trained strip
      Message 2 of 16 , Apr 11, 2006
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        My response must be qualified as well. We require YP training, and require that it be redone every two years. However, leaders receive their trained strip after completing the standard NLE/POS for their position.

        YiS,
        Jamie Niss Dunn
        Pack Trainer
        Pack 512
        Blaine/Coon Rapids, MN
        Cub Scout Training Chair
        Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
        3 Rivers District


        In a message dated 04/10/06 14:39:29 Central Daylight Time, corinnajones@... writes:
        Sorry, but my answer does not quite fit what you might be looking for,


        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Scouter Chuck
        Ken wrote... ... I believe our Council does the same. At least one leader must be YPT trained in order for the unit to camp at the summer camp. YPT is
        Message 3 of 16 , Apr 11, 2006
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          Ken wrote...

          > Our Council follows the BSA guidelines. Therefore, we do not
          > require Youth Protection training to earn the Trained patch, or
          > be listed as Trained in ScoutNet. We only require Youth
          > Protection for those training awards where it is listed as a
          > requirement on the form.

          I believe our Council does the same.

          At least one leader must be YPT trained in order for the unit to
          camp at the summer camp. YPT is required to be retaken every
          three years, but is _encouraged_ to be retaken every 2 years.

          No one is discouraged from taking it every year. ;)

          BTW, aren't we supposed to be doing this on the poll site? ;)

          YiS,

          Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
          I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
          Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
          Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
          "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
          -- Stephen R. Covey
          ----------------------------------------------------------------------
        • Ilively@adelphia.net
          Well, since the Exec. board met yesterday, I can now say ... Juniata Valley Council has decided to make YP a mandatory training. That s all I know. I don t
          Message 4 of 16 , Apr 12, 2006
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            Well, since the Exec. board met yesterday, I can now say ...

            Juniata Valley Council has decided to make YP a mandatory training.

            That's all I know. I don't know frequency of required updates, etc. I just know that YP is going to be 'required.'

            I'm hoping to get a big e-mail from the Scout Exec so that I can know what I'm supposed to tell my people.

            Ida
            - Nittany Mountain District Training Chair
          • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
            Hi Ida, For some time in my council, it s been mandatory for at least one adult on a trip requiring a tour permit to have the training. Pete Mullaney _____
            Message 5 of 16 , Apr 12, 2006
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              Hi Ida,
              For some time in my council, it's been mandatory for at
              least one adult on a trip requiring a tour permit to have
              the training.

              Pete Mullaney

              _____

              From: Ilively@... [mailto:Ilively@...]
              Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:30 PM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: New poll for scouter_t


              Well, since the Exec. board met yesterday, I can now say ...

              Juniata Valley Council has decided to make YP a mandatory training.

              That's all I know. I don't know frequency of required updates, etc. I just
              know that YP is going to be 'required.'

              I'm hoping to get a big e-mail from the Scout Exec so that I can know what
              I'm supposed to tell my people.

              Ida
              - Nittany Mountain District Training Chair




              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Frank Toothaker
              What is a “legacy”?  That which Scouting inherited and developed from Baden-Powell, or that which we are creating; what we want it to be 100 years from
              Message 6 of 16 , Jun 22, 2009
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                What is a “legacy”?  That which Scouting inherited and developed from Baden-Powell, or that which we are creating; what we want it to be 100 years from now?  I’d say our desired future legacy would be our mission fulfilled – a world full of people making ethical choices throughout their lives. I don’t see a core value as being a legacy.
                 
                Character is a collection of values, not a value in itself.  Nor are Outdoors or Achievement considered values either.   Leadership – is that really a value? Attila the Hun was a leader.
                 
                Frank Toothaker

                --- On Mon, 6/22/09, scouter_t@yahoogroups.com <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com> wrote:



                Enter your vote today!  A new poll has been created for the
                scouter_t group:

                A Year of Celebration – A Century of Making a Difference is an awards program developed specially for the 100th Anniversary of the Boy Scouts of America. There are five awards, each based on one of the five core values of the Boy Scouts of America: one for Leadership, Achievement, Community Service, Character and the Outdoors. Which of these 5 core values do you consider Scouting's Legacy? 

                  o Character
                  o Leadership
                  o Service
                  o Outdoors
                  o Achievement


                To vote, please visit the following web page:
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scouter_t/surveys?id=2873391




                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Richard C. Pushies
                ... Hi Frank, The idea of a legacy is new in my Scouting world. Let me share with you what the BSA is saying about this idea. This may not be word for word
                Message 7 of 16 , Jun 22, 2009
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                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Frank Toothaker <ftooth@...> wrote: "What is a legacy?"

                  Hi Frank,

                  The idea of a legacy is new in my Scouting world. Let me share with you what the BSA is saying about this idea. This may not be word for word correct, but the message is true. BSA says, "a "legacy" is a thing of value that is handed down from generation to generation. An enduring gift of knowledge, adventure, self confidence and character passed from elder to youth, Scout to Scout through generations of Americans."

                  I started this poll just because this concept and definition of the legacy of Scouting is so new I believe it is worth our discussion. The BSA in fact now identifies one of the 5 core values as the legacy of Scouting. We may agree or disagree with their definition, but is a definition being communicated by the BSA as their view on what the legacy of Scouting is to them.

                  So what is your choice? Character, Leadership, Service, Outdoors, or Achievement? All have importance to Scouting only one is defined by the BSA as the legacy of Scouting.

                  Yours Truly in Scouting,
                  Rick
                • Richard C. Pushies
                  I have closed the poll on the legacy of Scouting. You can look at the poll to see the results. According to the BSA the legacy of Scouting is Leadership! This
                  Message 8 of 16 , Jun 29, 2009
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                    I have closed the poll on the legacy of Scouting. You can look at the poll to see the results.

                    According to the BSA the legacy of Scouting is Leadership!

                    This definition is according to the new "This is Scouting" training video. In this video the BSA defines "legacy" as a thing of value that is handed down from generation to generation. An enduring gift of knowledge, adventure, self confidence and character passed from elder to youth, Scout to Scout through generations of Americans. It is in this context that the BSA has clearly defined the legacy of Scouting as leadership.

                    As I have been intimately involved in the leadership training of youth and adult volunteers for many years in Scouting I easily accept this new definition. I also understand others may not.

                    Yours Truly in Scouting,
                    Rick Pushies
                  • Rick Rambo
                    According to the BSA the legacy of Scouting is Leadership! SOOOOOOooooo, Does anyone have an opinion regarding the overwhelming difference of opinion between
                    Message 9 of 16 , Jun 29, 2009
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                      According to the BSA the legacy of Scouting is Leadership!



                      SOOOOOOooooo,



                      Does anyone have an opinion regarding the overwhelming difference of opinion
                      between those who took the poll and the "correct" answer?



                      I, too agree that Leadership is a lasting legacy of Scouting. I see this in
                      my own life and others who have been involved with Scouting - that they are
                      often times the default choices for leaders in various situations.



                      However, I believe that Character is a necessary component of true
                      leadership. I am sure you have seen people that have been placed in a
                      leadership role, but lack Character. More often than not, they end up
                      ultimately failing in their attempt at Leadership.



                      Just my two cents, looking forward to reading others'.



                      Rick Rambo

                      Bunches of trainings and Wood Badges

                      Currently RT Commissioner



                      "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination,
                      or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and
                      evidence." -John Adams

                      "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner.
                      Liberty is a well-armed lamb." Benjamin Franklin



                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • gottshalld@aol.com
                      Rick, Real leadership dies back in 1972. Leadership was not a method of Scouting prior to 1972, with the advent of the Leadership Corps. All references to
                      Message 10 of 16 , Jun 29, 2009
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                        Rick,

                        Real leadership dies back in 1972.

                        Leadership was not a method of Scouting prior to 1972, with the advent of the Leadership Corps.

                        All references to leadership before 1972 was a by-product of effective use of the patrol method.

                        Patrols elected leaders.? Patrol members learned leadership by direct observation and participation as part of an engaged patrol member, not by attending some management class with contrived examples.

                        I can only hope that patrol management is a short-lived legacy.

                        Dave Gottshall




                        -----Original Message-----
                        From: Rick Rambo <rickram@...>
                        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                        Sent: Mon, Jun 29, 2009 9:36 pm
                        Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] The legacy of Scouting is leadership































                        According to the BSA the legacy of Scouting is Leadership!



                        SOOOOOOooooo,



                        Does anyone have an opinion regarding the overwhelming difference of opinion

                        between those who took the poll and the "correct" answer?



                        I, too agree that Leadership is a lasting legacy of Scouting. I see this in

                        my own life and others who have been involved with Scouting - that they are

                        often times the default choices for leaders in various situations.



                        However, I believe that Character is a necessary component of true

                        leadership. I am sure you have seen people that have been placed in a

                        leadership role, but lack Character. More often than not, they end up

                        ultimately failing in their attempt at Leadership.



                        Just my two cents, looking forward to reading others'.



                        Rick Rambo



                        Bunches of trainings and Wood Badges



                        Currently RT Commissioner



                        "Facts are stubborn things; and whatever may be our wishes, our inclination,

                        or the dictates of our passions, they cannot alter the state of facts and

                        evidence." -John Adams



                        "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb deciding what to have for dinner.

                        Liberty is a well-armed lamb." Benjamin Franklin



                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]


























                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Richard C. Pushies
                        Hi Dave, Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do not understand your perspective, but I appreciate that you took the time to share. You wrote, Real
                        Message 11 of 16 , Jun 30, 2009
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                          Hi Dave,

                          Thanks for sharing your perspective. I do not understand your perspective, but I appreciate that you took the time to share.

                          You wrote, "Real leadership dies back in 1972." What? I do not understand this comment, please explain. What do you characterize as "real leadership" in this statrment? Do we now have unreal leadership in Scouting?

                          You wrote, "Leadership was not a method of Scouting prior to 1972, with the advent of the Leadership Corps." Yet Lord Baden-Powell is quoted as saying "Every boy deserves a trained leader." Leaders provide leadership in my book. The Boy Scouts of America included leadership as one of the 8 methods of Scouting for a reason. You seem to believe that was a mistake, is that correct?

                          Teaching effective leadership skills to Scouts increases their ability to be good leaders.

                          You wrote, "Patrols elected leaders.?" It is my understanding that the election of patrol leaders still takes place at the troop level. When I first became a Scoutmaster in 1980 my Scouts elected patrol leaders and they are electing patrol leaders in my grandson's troop today. What is your point?

                          You wrote, "Patrol members learned leadership by direct observation and participation as part of an engaged patrol member, . . ." Observing the example of a good patrol leader is still a valid way to learn. But, what if the current patrol leader is a terrible leader? Does the observed poor performance of a patrol leader then become the standard of leadership for all the patrol members? Teaching first aid in this manner would not be very effective, would it?

                          ". . ., not by attending some management class with contrived examples." Your definition of managment and mine must differ. I was taught that you manage things and lead people. Please share your definition of the terms management and leadership because I do not understand your position. "Contrived examples" is an interesting choice of words. Please provide an explanation of what you mean.

                          You wrote,"I can only hope that patrol management is a short-lived legacy." Well, it appears that the Boy Scouts of America sees things differently than you as they have defined leadership as the legacy of Scouting. I agree with the Boy Scouts of America and do not understand your perspective at all. I hope the legacy of leadership in Scouting endures for another hundred years!

                          My favorite quotation on leadership comes from Napolean and he said, "A leaders is a dealer in hope." What say you?

                          Yours Truly in Scouting,
                          Rick Pushies
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