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Re: [Scouter_T] Combining OWL & BALOO

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  • ed5870@aol.com
    In a message dated 1/20/2006 7:35:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, sandyowl1@yahoo.com writes: We have been combining the two for the last 2 years. We are a
    Message 1 of 13 , Jan 20, 2006
      In a message dated 1/20/2006 7:35:30 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
      sandyowl1@... writes:

      We have been combining the two for the last 2 years. We are a small council
      without a lot of trainers


      Neither do we and I would never combine them I fell this is a real
      disservice to your people they are two different courses!!!!

      Ed Harvey
      Cub Training Chair Tri-Valley District
      Every Cub Scout deserves a Trained Leader
      THE HEART OF SCOUTING IS TRAINING
      Hudson Valley Council
      I used to be an Antelope


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dave Loomis
      National has released the now OWL/WOLT syllabus featuring combining it with IOLS. Any combination of BALOO and OWL/WOLT make no sense at all, as the former is
      Message 2 of 13 , Jan 20, 2006
        National has released the now OWL/WOLT syllabus featuring combining it
        with IOLS. Any combination of BALOO and OWL/WOLT make no sense at all,
        as the former is designed for people in the Pack to be able to check out
        outdoor camps or experiences for family camping, while IOLS and OWL/WOLT
        deal with taking a group of boys into the outdoors.

        The new syllabus combines:
        The Opening Assembly
        Woods Tools
        Fire Site Preparation and Building
        Cooking and Sanitation (parts)
        Ropes and Knots (parts)
        Interfaith Worship
        First Aid
        in the new syllabus with IOLS presentations of these topics.

        Dave

        brant@... wrote:
        > Hi all,
        >
        >
        > 2nd thought... It seems to me that the NEW OWL is (a) not that much different from the old and (b) hard to combine with IOLS. I'm not sure how the combined plan of teaching something for 30 minutes to BOTH, then 10 minutes for just the Webelos leaders is supposed to work -- especailly when they don't put anything in the syllabus of what topics to cover separately.
        >
        > For the Boys,
        > Brant
        >
        >

        To reply, click on the address below.

        Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
        245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
        Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
      • Joyce Gaddis
        I am in the process of combining the new OWL and IOLS. What a pain!!! You almost need two seperate staffs. It is like putting two courses on at the same
        Message 3 of 13 , Jan 21, 2006
          I am in the process of combining the new OWL and IOLS. What a
          pain!!! You almost need two seperate staffs. It is like putting two
          courses on at the same time and same place. Seems to me to be
          another one of BSA's half-baked "Let's try this" schemes!!! I think
          it is a great idea to combine OWL nad IOLS training to further
          strengthen the bond between the two groups. Yes, I understand that
          Webelos are still Cub Scouts and have different programs, but the
          Webelos Outdoor program should be preparing the boys AND leaders for
          Boy Scout outdoor programs.

          Joyce Gaddis
          SM Troop 23 Eddington
          NE 1-224 Bear Patrol
          NE 1-239 Troop Guide

          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, <brant@l...> wrote:
          >
          > Hi all,
          >
          > I think there was some discussion about this topic in the past.
          Anyway... Any & all input appreciated.
          >
          > 1st thought - It seems to me that there is a lot of synergy
          between OWL & BALOO. Does anyone have a combined topics list &
          schedule??
          >
          > 2nd thought... It seems to me that the NEW OWL is (a) not that
          much different from the old and (b) hard to combine with IOLS. I'm
          not sure how the combined plan of teaching something for 30 minutes
          to BOTH, then 10 minutes for just the Webelos leaders is supposed to
          work -- especailly when they don't put anything in the syllabus of
          what topics to cover separately.
          >
          > For the Boys,
          > Brant
          >
          >
          > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          >
        • Kevin Pate
          ... the ... Only to a limited extent. The Webelos Scouts have available to them a fairly good, and very age appropriate, outdoor program of their own. When
          Message 4 of 13 , Jan 21, 2006
            > ... the Webelos Outdoor program should be preparing
            the
            > boys AND leaders for Boy Scout outdoor programs.

            Only to a limited extent. The Webelos Scouts have
            available to them a fairly good, and very age
            appropriate, outdoor program of their own. When
            applying that program as it's intended, the end result
            will be young Scouts who are eagerly looking forward
            to Boy Scouts when they enter the troop. Far better
            to have exceptionally eager lads looking toward new
            things than lads arriving and quickly developing a
            been there, done that view of Boy Scouts.

            Webelos Leader Outdoor Skills Training should have as
            its primary function the training of prospective
            Webelos Leaders, i.e. Bear parents and Bear leaders,
            and really new Webelos Leaders. Its focus is, at
            least I assume the new syllabus hasn't changed too
            greatly from the former, on how best to deliver the
            outdoor aspects for Webelos Scouts in their
            transitional program between Cub Scouts and Boy
            Scouts, including a significant focus on the outdoor
            oriented Webelos Scouts Activity badges.

            While I can see there are ways to have OWLS and IOLS
            at the same property, with some shared staff and
            shared sessions, or partial sessions at least, it's
            not a surpise to me at all that it would seem to
            require two staffs. After all, two very different
            skill sets are being taught to two very different
            audiences.



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          • Sandra Martens
            the main problem I have with the combined OWL/IOLS courses is that the Webelos leaders then use and teach the Boy Scout skills in their Webelos dens. OWL is
            Message 5 of 13 , Jan 21, 2006
              the main problem I have with the combined OWL/IOLS courses is that the Webelos leaders then use and teach the Boy Scout skills in their Webelos dens. OWL is to give Bear and beginning Webelos leaders the skills to teach Webelos outdoor skills, not BS ones. That is why, because of staff shortage, we combine OWL and BALOO rather than OWL and IOLS. Our combined syllabus makes sure each different session gets only what they are suppose to get, and not the other. We combine only when the syllabi teach just about the same things- site selection, tentage, cooking, sanitation. Only the OWL participants get the OWL portion (Webelos activity pin helps) and only the BALOO participants get the BALOO portion (pack camping, appropriate activities based on age/rank, safety, pack campout planning)

              Sandy OWL
              Joyce Gaddis <joyceagaddis@...> wrote:
              I am in the process of combining the new OWL and IOLS. What a
              pain!!! You almost need two seperate staffs. It is like putting two
              courses on at the same time and same place. Seems to me to be
              another one of BSA's half-baked "Let's try this" schemes!!! I think
              it is a great idea to combine OWL nad IOLS training to further
              strengthen the bond between the two groups. Yes, I understand that
              Webelos are still Cub Scouts and have different programs, but the
              Webelos Outdoor program should be preparing the boys AND leaders for
              Boy Scout outdoor programs.

              Joyce Gaddis
              SM Troop 23 Eddington
              NE 1-224 Bear Patrol
              NE 1-239 Troop Guide

              --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, <brant@l...> wrote:


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              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Fred Goodwin, CMA
              ... If you read the BALOO syllabus, it says on page 9 (Planning Your BALOO Training / Overview) that this training should not be merged with any other
              Message 6 of 13 , Jan 22, 2006
                > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:38:21 -0800 (PST)
                > From: <brant@...>
                >
                > 1st thought - It seems to me that there is a lot of synergy
                > between OWL & BALOO. Does anyone have a combined topics list
                > & schedule??

                If you read the BALOO syllabus, it says on page 9 (Planning Your BALOO
                Training / Overview) that this training should not be merged with any
                other training.

                > 2nd thought... It seems to me that the NEW OWL is (a) not that
                > much different from the old and (b) hard to combine with IOLS.

                Not sure how much the new OLSWL (Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos
                Leaders) differs from the old WLOT (Webelos Leader Outdoor Training),
                but the new syllabus specifically provides for joint sessions with
                IOLS.

                In fact, the two courses are very similar, but OLSWL provides a focus
                on the outdoor Webelos activity badges that would not be appropriate
                for IOLS.

                Fred Goodwin, District Training Chairman
                Keystone District, Alamo Area Council
              • Sandra Martens
                I have a combined syllabus and time line. Will email this evening. have a pinewood derby to run. Sandy OWL ... If you read the BALOO syllabus, it says on
                Message 7 of 13 , Jan 22, 2006
                  I have a combined syllabus and time line. Will email this evening. have a pinewood derby to run.

                  Sandy OWL

                  "Fred Goodwin, CMA" <fgoodwin@...> wrote:
                  > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:38:21 -0800 (PST)
                  > From: <brant@...>
                  >
                  > 1st thought - It seems to me that there is a lot of synergy
                  > between OWL & BALOO. Does anyone have a combined topics list
                  > & schedule??

                  If you read the BALOO syllabus, it says on page 9 (Planning Your BALOO
                  Training / Overview) that this training should not be merged with any
                  other training.

                  > 2nd thought... It seems to me that the NEW OWL is (a) not that
                  > much different from the old and (b) hard to combine with IOLS.

                  Not sure how much the new OLSWL (Outdoor Leader Skills for Webelos
                  Leaders) differs from the old WLOT (Webelos Leader Outdoor Training),
                  but the new syllabus specifically provides for joint sessions with
                  IOLS.

                  In fact, the two courses are very similar, but OLSWL provides a focus
                  on the outdoor Webelos activity badges that would not be appropriate
                  for IOLS.

                  Fred Goodwin, District Training Chairman
                  Keystone District, Alamo Area Council



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                • R Fisher
                  Having been involved in our Council s first Joint Presentation of Outdoor Skills for Webelos Leaders and Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills for Boy Scout Leaders,
                  Message 8 of 13 , Jan 22, 2006
                    Having been involved in our Council's first Joint Presentation of
                    Outdoor Skills for Webelos Leaders and Intro to Outdoor Leader Skills
                    for Boy Scout Leaders, I think I agree. Although the topics have the
                    same title, the focus is entirely different in most cases. OSWL is more
                    for training Leaders, IOLS is more for training Leaders to train boys.
                    The timing is all messed up, and one of the biggest drawbacks I see is a
                    Webelos leader who thinks he doesn't need to attend IOLS because s/he
                    already did it in Webelos.

                    If you do combine the two as suggested in the syllabus, I might think it
                    would be better to mirror (i.e. IOLS in the morning and OSWL in the
                    afternoon) to the extent practicable.

                    YiS

                    Roy Fisher

                    > [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Joyce Gaddis
                    > Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: Combining OWL & BALOO
                    >
                    >
                    > I am in the process of combining the new OWL and IOLS. What a
                    > pain!!! You almost need two seperate staffs. It is like putting two
                    > courses on at the same time and same place. Seems to me to be
                    > another one of BSA's half-baked "Let's try this" schemes!!!
                  • Sandra Martens
                    this is how we do our joint BALOO/OWL. We do not do the Webelos Transition portion of the new syllabus- we do that at Roundtable so all Webelos leaders get
                    Message 9 of 13 , Jan 22, 2006
                      this is how we do our joint BALOO/OWL. We do not do the Webelos Transition portion of the new syllabus- we do that at Roundtable so all Webelos leaders get it, not just those at OWL

                      BALOO / OWL TIMELINE
                      8 OCTOBER 2005

                      BALOO ACTIVITY TIME FRAME OWL ACTIVITY
                      Opening 09:00-09:20 Opening
                      09:20-10:00 Webelos Activities/H&S
                      Aims/Purposes, videos 09:20-0930
                      Planning/Program 9:30-11:00
                      10:00-10:10 Break
                      10:10-10:50 Round Robin ½
                      10:50-11:45 Round Robin ¾
                      Health and Safety 11:00-11:45
                      Lunch 11:45-12:15 Lunch
                      Activities (discuss games/hikes) 12:15-13:30 Activities
                      Blind Tent Relay 13:30-14:00 Blind Tent Relay
                      Fire Building 14:00-14:15 Fire Building
                      Round Robin J1/2 14:15-15:15 Round Robin J1/2
                      Round Robin J3/4 15:15-16:00 Round Robin J3/4
                      Flag Ceremony 16:00-16:20 Flag Ceremony
                      Campfire Preparation (dens) 16:20-17:00 Campfire Preparation (dens)
                      Dinner 17:00-18:00 Dinner
                      Campfire/Closing 18:00-19:00 Campfire/Closing



                      Round Robin 1/2 Round Robin 3/4 Round Robin J1/2 Round Robin J3/4
                      Naturalist Knots Cooking/Sanitation First Aid
                      Forester Geologist Campsite/Bedding Campfire Prep (class)



                      BALOO Activities OWL Activities (1 hr 15 min) (1 hr 15 min)

                      wiggle worm hunt scavenger hunt
                      hug a tree fire starters
                      nature critter bug cages
                      blind tent relay blind tent relay
                      break geodes


                      You'll notice we have activities during the afternoon period. I know this extends the time for BALOO, but it goes so quickly and the participants get to actually have fun and do some possible activities that can be done with their packs. We also have this time for Webelos activities instead of trying to teach and do an activity in the 20 minutes they allow. Outdoorsman is not covered separately. We coordinate so that it is covered completely in the other sessions. Participants learn knife safety and earn their "whittling chit" during campsite selection and bedding. This activity period also serves a second purpose. If sessions run late (due to questions and discussion) we have a buffer zone. The time spent on activities is just shortened.

                      Sandy OWL
                      "Fred Goodwin, CMA" <fgoodwin@...> wrote:
                      > Date: Fri, 20 Jan 2006 14:38:21 -0800 (PST)
                      > From: <brant@...>
                      >
                      > 1st thought - It seems to me that there is a lot of synergy
                      > between OWL & BALOO. Does anyone have a combined topics list
                      > & schedule??


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