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Re: [Scouter_T] Wood Badge revision

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  • Connie Knie
    Are the certain requirements you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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      Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other "requirements"


      You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
      course with certain requirements.

      Best wishes,

      Neil Lupton


      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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      connie

      SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

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    • Dave Loomis
      It is my understanding that Wood Badge for the 21st Century was restricted to new candidates initially, to try to fulfill the BSA desire that every Scouter
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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        It is my understanding that Wood Badge for the 21st Century was
        restricted to new candidates initially, to try to fulfill the BSA desire
        that every Scouter might achieve a course within his or her second year
        in Scouting. In other words, leave room for the new guys.

        I also understand that graduates from previous courses, Cub Scout, Boy
        Scout, Explorer, Walking, Afloat, and all of the rest of the previous
        versions of Wood Badge may now take the current version, provided that
        they give up/agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief, and woggle
        until they earn them again by completing the academic and practical
        parts of the current course.

        Neil Lupton is probably the person best able to amplify on these remarks.

        Dave

        Connie Knie wrote:
        > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other "requirements"
        >
        >
        > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
        > course with certain requirements.
        >
        > Best wishes,
        >
        > Neil Lupton
        >
        >

        To reply, click on the address below.

        Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
        245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
        Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
      • Kevin Pate
        ... That s easy ... C-33-19 of course. See my reasoning below 8^) Kevin SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo) SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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          > I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood
          > Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
          > and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-19 - Buffalo). ...
          > I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century
          > course next Spring. Which set of beads do I add
          > my third bead to?

          That's easy ... C-33-19 of course.
          See my reasoning below 8^)

          Kevin
          SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo)
          SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)


          PS I'm a guessin', cause I always just kinda sorta
          assumed they gave ya another set of three when ya
          staff a course.





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        • Sean Scott
          ... Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o beads. If you don t have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make your own woggle...
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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            On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Kevin Pate wrote:

            > I always just kinda sorta assumed they gave ya another set of three
            > when ya staff a course.

            Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o'beads. If you don't
            have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make
            your own woggle...

            YiS,
            Sean
            WM-45-2-00 Buffalo
            W4-45-02 Troop Guide
            W4-45-03 Scribe
            W4-45-04 ASM Troop Guides
          • NeilLup@aol.com
            ... You re right, Sean. I also missed Walking Wood Badge and Explorer Wood Badge (Crews were, I believe, Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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              In a message dated 10/3/05 12:35:36 PM, sscott@... writes:


              > Neil,
              >
              > You missed (at least, there are probably more still):
              > Cub Trainer Wood Badge
              > Varsity Wood Badge
              >
              > Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader 
              > Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets 
              > of beads? (Stands to reason you would.) Do you wear both? If you were 
              > staff on each of these courses, did you get a third bead for each? A 
              > fourth bead for being a course director for each? And if that's the 
              > case, does it make you an eight-beader, or a double-four-beader?
              >
              > YiS,
              > Sean
              >

              You're right, Sean. I also missed Walking Wood Badge and Explorer Wood
              Badge (Crews were, I believe, Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett
              and Jim Bridger).

              To answer your other questions, as I understand matters:

              Yes
              No
              Yes
              Yes
              You could call yourself a double 4 beader if you wished.

              Or else one could simply call themself Dinizulu and wear as many beads as
              they wishes :)

              Best wishes,

              Neil Lupton


              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • NeilLup@aol.com
              ... My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the old Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                In a message dated 10/3/05 4:44:37 PM, cknie23100@... writes:


                > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter
                > has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
                > "requirements"
                >
                >
                > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                > course with certain requirements.
                >
                > Best wishes,
                >
                > Neil Lupton
                >

                My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the
                "old" Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                and during the period of time that they are working it until they complete their
                ticket, they agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief and woggle from the
                old course. Once they complete the 21st Century WB ticket, they can go
                back into full WB regalia.

                The idea is that if you are going to take the new course, you take the full
                new course including ticket, not just the one week or two weekends. No
                "auditors" for the new course.

                Best wishes,

                Neil Lupton


                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • rhowe
                Neil: I concur with your statement on certain requirements. I just checked the upcoming years syllabus and it is stated that way . Ray Howe C-30-05
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                  Neil:

                  I concur with your statement on certain requirements.
                  I just checked the upcoming years syllabus and it is stated that way .



                  Ray Howe
                  C-30-05
                  Simon Kenton Council .At 09:18 PM 10/3/2005, you wrote:

                  >In a message dated 10/3/05 4:44:37 PM, cknie23100@... writes:
                  >
                  >
                  > > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a
                  > scouter
                  > > has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
                  > > "requirements"
                  > >
                  > >
                  > > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                  > > course with certain requirements.
                  > >
                  > > Best wishes,
                  > >
                  > > Neil Lupton
                  > >
                  >
                  >My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the
                  >"old" Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                  >and during the period of time that they are working it until they complete
                  >their
                  >ticket, they agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief and woggle from the
                  >old course. Once they complete the 21st Century WB ticket, they can go
                  >back into full WB regalia.
                  >
                  >The idea is that if you are going to take the new course, you take the full
                  >new course including ticket, not just the one week or two weekends. No
                  >"auditors" for the new course.
                  >
                  >Best wishes,
                  >
                  >Neil Lupton
                  >
                  >
                  >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • lbthmi@aol.com
                  Hey, I don t know about getting a whole new set of beads. I guess I will either have some one tell me or have to wait and see. But I really have been a bit
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                    Hey, I don't know about getting a whole new set of beads. I guess I will
                    either have some one tell me or have to wait and see. But I really have been a
                    bit more partial to be a Bobwhite than a Buffalo. I heard through the
                    grapevine that I was not made a Bobwhite at my second course purely because I was
                    already one.

                    BTW, our course # for next Spring is C-8-6.
                    ---
                    Leslie

                    In a message dated 10/3/2005 8:56:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    kevinpate@... writes:

                    > I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood
                    > Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
                    > and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-98 - Buffalo). ...
                    > I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century
                    > course next Spring. Which set of beads do I add
                    > my third bead to?

                    That's easy ... C-33-98 of course.
                    See my reasoning below 8^)

                    Kevin
                    SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo)
                    SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)


                    PS I'm a guessin', cause I always just kinda sorta
                    assumed they gave ya another set of three when ya
                    staff a course.



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • lbthmi@aol.com
                    Oh wow, I ll be able to claim to be a nine beader :) ... Leslie In a message dated 10/3/2005 9:06:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sscott@argentive.com writes:
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                      Oh wow, I'll be able to claim to be a nine beader :)
                      ---
                      Leslie

                      In a message dated 10/3/2005 9:06:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                      sscott@... writes:

                      On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Kevin Pate wrote:

                      > I always just kinda sorta assumed they gave ya another set of three
                      > when ya staff a course.

                      Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o'beads. If you don't
                      have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make
                      your own woggle...

                      YiS,
                      Sean
                      WM-45-2-00 Buffalo
                      W4-45-02 Troop Guide
                      W4-45-03 Scribe
                      W4-45-04 ASM Troop Guides




                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Judy Yeager
                      I, too, have full regalia (beads, necker and woggle) from Cub Trainer WB (NC-C10 Bobwhite) and Boy Scout WB (C-29-99 Antelope.) I am also a 21st Century
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                        I, too, have full regalia (beads, necker and woggle) from Cub Trainer WB (NC-C10 Bobwhite) and Boy Scout WB (C-29-99 Antelope.) I am also a 21st Century three-beader beginning with CR-Y2K-X3, one of the pilot courses. I have the original 21st Century necker (tan with green piping), as well as the present one, and several of the woggles.

                        In these parts, you do get a brand new set of beads when you become a three beader, so you don't have to decide which one to add the third bead to.

                        During that pilot course, our SM asked that we remove one of our three beads and replace it with a bead from our replica of the Dinizulu necklace. That's a special one for me and it is still there.

                        Judy Yeager


                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Judy Yeager
                        Connie wrote, I took the very last old WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                          Connie wrote, "I took the very last "old" WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past participants taking the course. Who's idea was it to make this edict?"

                          As others have answered, this ruling has been a good thing for many councils such as ours. We hold one course per year and it is almost always sold out months in advance with "new" people and there is a waiting list. It would be too bad to turn these folks away if those who already have a WB experience filled up the slots.

                          I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.

                          This is the sixth year of 21st Century and has now been accepted by most as the location where the cheese will stay, so that is probably why that restriction has been lifted.

                          And, some day, the cheese will move again and the 21st Century alumni will probably decry the removal of "their" course, just as those who have gone ahead did. That's the way we humans are!

                          Judy Yeager
                          NC-CS-10 Bobwhite
                          C-29-99 Antelope
                          CR-Y2K-X3 and others Staff


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Judy Yeager
                          Connie wrote, I took the very last old WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                            Connie wrote, "I took the very last "old" WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past participants taking the course. Who's idea was it to make this edict?"

                            As others have answered, this ruling has been a good thing for many councils such as ours. We hold one course per year and it is almost always sold out months in advance with "new" people and there is a waiting list. It would be too bad to turn these folks away if those who already have a WB experience filled up the slots.

                            I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.

                            This is the sixth year of 21st Century and has now been accepted by most as the location where the cheese will stay, so that is probably why that restriction has been lifted.

                            And, some day, the cheese will move again and the 21st Century alumni will probably decry the removal of "their" course, just as those who have gone ahead did. That's the way we humans are!

                            Judy Yeager
                            NC-CS-10 Bobwhite
                            C-29-99 Antelope
                            CR-Y2K-X3 and others Staff


                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Dave Loomis
                            I would say that the old Scout Wood Badge folks have a valid point in re Cub Wood Badge, as the aims were totally different. With the 21st Century course
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                              I would say that the old Scout Wood Badge folks have a valid point in
                              re Cub Wood Badge, as the aims were totally different. With the 21st
                              Century course everybody takes the same material, and even experiences
                              portions of the other programs.

                              Dave

                              Judy Yeager wrote:
                              >
                              > I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.
                              >
                              >
                              > Judy Yeager
                              >

                              To reply, click on the address below.

                              Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                              245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                              Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                            • Connie Knie
                              I don t think anyone can give me a good reason for barring anyone who seeks to better thier leadership skills through training........ Paul
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                I don't think anyone can give me a "good" reason for barring anyone who seeks to better thier leadership skills through training........

                                Paul <plamson13642@...> wrote:My understanding from our WB coordinater that this was only supposed
                                to be in effect for the first 2 yrs. After that anyone could take
                                it.




                                connie

                                SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • lbthmi@aol.com
                                I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already taken previous courses to attend the new course - been there, done that, got the
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                  I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already
                                  taken previous courses to attend the new course - "been there, done that, got
                                  the beads" :)

                                  When I took Boy Scout Wood Badge, eight years after I had taken Cub Scout
                                  Trainer, I had to stand back and allow the others in my Patrol have their
                                  "experience" because it was a repeat for me.

                                  I had a friend on the staff at this course and he told me that I was
                                  discussed a couple of times during Staff meetings because they thought I wasn't
                                  "getting it". He had to remind them that I had already done this before. They
                                  knew I "got it" when I turned in a ticket that needed no revisions :)
                                  ---
                                  Leslie


                                  In a message dated 10/4/2005 8:13:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                  cknie23100@... writes:

                                  I don't think anyone can give me a "good" reason for barring anyone who
                                  seeks to better their leadership skills through training........




                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Connie Knie
                                  But..........I have only had the old CS WB and know almost nothing of the new one. I have heard the differences are so vast that it is like never having
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                    But..........I have only had the "old" CS WB and know almost nothing of the new one. I have heard the differences are so vast that it is like never having taken it.
                                    Also how fair is it to assume everyone will be a loud mouth "That's not the way we did it" kind of person?

                                    I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already
                                    taken previous courses to attend the new course - "been there, done that, got
                                    the beads" :)




                                    connie

                                    SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Carter J Wood
                                    I am new on this list and have just been lurking. Now that I believe that I can make a contribution, let me begin with the usual self introduction. I am a 35+
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 5, 2005
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                                      I am new on this list and have just been lurking. Now
                                      that I believe that I can make a contribution, let me
                                      begin with the usual self introduction.

                                      I am a 35+ year Scouter, father of an Eagle and
                                      Grandfather of three Scouts - Bear, 2nd Class, Life.

                                      I am an Eagle from SE-288 in 1979. Since then I have
                                      served on staff for several courses in the previous
                                      syllabus and now five times with the 21st Century
                                      course. I also assisted with one of the Experimental
                                      or 'Pilot' classes and took Sea Badge at SR-SB-X. If
                                      you haven't heard it before, "Sea Badge is just like
                                      Wood Badge - except that it is completely different!"

                                      Next March I will serve as the Course Director for
                                      SR766. Yesterday I rec'd a copy of the newly revised
                                      syllabus, the Admin Guide and the DVD. From just one
                                      evening's review of these materials I can affirm many
                                      of the rumored changes. In the coming days I will
                                      post here the essence of what I get out this newest
                                      material.
                                      If you have a specific question that I do not cover,
                                      just ask. I'll try to help. I'll only report what
                                      the book says. For instance - from page 1 of the
                                      Admin Guide:

                                      Note: Individuals who have attended Wood Badge in the
                                      past (either Cub Scout Trainers' Wood Badge or Boy
                                      Scout Leader Wood Badge) may attend Wood Badge for the
                                      21st Century provided that: (1) They agree to write
                                      and work a Wood Badge for the 21st Century ticket; and
                                      (2) they agree not to wear Wood Badge beads until the
                                      have satisfactorily completed theri Wood Badge of the
                                      21st Century ticket.






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