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Re: [Scouter_T] Wood Badge revision

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  • lbthmi@aol.com
    I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite) and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-19 - Buffalo). I joke around and say I am a
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
      I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
      and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-19 - Buffalo). I joke around and say I am a
      four-beader :)

      I only wear one set at a time. I also only wear one necker and woggle at a
      time too. :)

      I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century course next Spring. Which
      set of beads do I add my third bead to?
      ---
      Leslie

      In a message dated 10/3/2005 12:35:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
      sscott@... writes:

      Neil,

      You missed (at least, there are probably more still):
      Cub Trainer Wood Badge
      Varsity Wood Badge

      Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader
      Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets
      of beads? (Stands to reason you would.) Do you wear both? If you were
      staff on each of these courses, did you get a third bead for each? A
      fourth bead for being a course director for each? And if that's the
      case, does it make you an eight-beader, or a double-four-beader?

      YiS,
      Sean



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Paul
      My understanding from our WB coordinater that this was only supposed to be in effect for the first 2 yrs. After that anyone could take it. ... taking the new
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
        My understanding from our WB coordinater that this was only supposed
        to be in effect for the first 2 yrs. After that anyone could take
        it.

        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@s...>
        wrote:
        > You know it boggles my mind that anyone would "bar" someone from
        taking the new WB course. I too was told the first year it was
        available in our Council that I was discouraged from taking the
        course in order to let in "new" scouters. I took the very last "old"
        WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course
        was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past
        participants taking the course.
        > Who's idea was it to make this edict?
        >
        >
        >
        >
        > connie
        >
        > SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
        > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/
        >
        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Paul
        We were told same thing, No more Blanchard material. So now the question is, will National drop the fee each course had to pay to use the material? ...
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
          We were told same thing, No more Blanchard material.

          So now the question is, will National drop the fee each course had
          to pay to use the material?


          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Kent Wolfe" <kentw@n...> wrote:
          > I got this from someone who will be on staff for the Course
          Director's
          > Conference this fall...
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > National is releasing a new WB for the 21st Century syllabus this
          fall.
          > Its use will begin with all 2006 courses. I am currently on staff
          for
          > the Course Directors Conference in KC in 2 weeks and this is the
          > syllabus we are to be teaching from (although I havent received it
          yet -
          > go figure).
          >
          > As I understand it, the major changes come in two areas...
          >
          > One of the most significant changes is the removal of the Blanchard
          > material. The concepts that are being taught are the same, however
          the
          > copyrighted material is being removed and replaced with original
          BSA
          > material.
          >
          > Some of the terminology has been changed to match that developed
          for the
          > new NYLT course. That way adult leaders and youth leaders can
          understand
          > each other by using the same terminology. Example - Forming,
          Storming,
          > Norming, and Performing have been replaced with the wording from
          NYLT
          > (dont recall the exact words - but similar meaning).
          >
          > Other than that, the structure and content of the course has
          remained
          > largely unchanged.
          >
          > I'll know more once I receive my new syllabus.
          >
          > Kent Wolfe
          > Scoutmaster, Troop 12
          > Vice Chair, Council Training Committee
          > Lincoln, NE
          > Buffalo, C-14-01
        • Connie Knie
          Are the certain requirements you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
            Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other "requirements"


            You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
            course with certain requirements.

            Best wishes,

            Neil Lupton


            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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            connie

            SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
            http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Dave Loomis
            It is my understanding that Wood Badge for the 21st Century was restricted to new candidates initially, to try to fulfill the BSA desire that every Scouter
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
              It is my understanding that Wood Badge for the 21st Century was
              restricted to new candidates initially, to try to fulfill the BSA desire
              that every Scouter might achieve a course within his or her second year
              in Scouting. In other words, leave room for the new guys.

              I also understand that graduates from previous courses, Cub Scout, Boy
              Scout, Explorer, Walking, Afloat, and all of the rest of the previous
              versions of Wood Badge may now take the current version, provided that
              they give up/agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief, and woggle
              until they earn them again by completing the academic and practical
              parts of the current course.

              Neil Lupton is probably the person best able to amplify on these remarks.

              Dave

              Connie Knie wrote:
              > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other "requirements"
              >
              >
              > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
              > course with certain requirements.
              >
              > Best wishes,
              >
              > Neil Lupton
              >
              >

              To reply, click on the address below.

              Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
              245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
              Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
            • Kevin Pate
              ... That s easy ... C-33-19 of course. See my reasoning below 8^) Kevin SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo) SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                > I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood
                > Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
                > and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-19 - Buffalo). ...
                > I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century
                > course next Spring. Which set of beads do I add
                > my third bead to?

                That's easy ... C-33-19 of course.
                See my reasoning below 8^)

                Kevin
                SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo)
                SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)


                PS I'm a guessin', cause I always just kinda sorta
                assumed they gave ya another set of three when ya
                staff a course.





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              • Sean Scott
                ... Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o beads. If you don t have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make your own woggle...
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                  On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Kevin Pate wrote:

                  > I always just kinda sorta assumed they gave ya another set of three
                  > when ya staff a course.

                  Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o'beads. If you don't
                  have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make
                  your own woggle...

                  YiS,
                  Sean
                  WM-45-2-00 Buffalo
                  W4-45-02 Troop Guide
                  W4-45-03 Scribe
                  W4-45-04 ASM Troop Guides
                • NeilLup@aol.com
                  ... You re right, Sean. I also missed Walking Wood Badge and Explorer Wood Badge (Crews were, I believe, Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                    In a message dated 10/3/05 12:35:36 PM, sscott@... writes:


                    > Neil,
                    >
                    > You missed (at least, there are probably more still):
                    > Cub Trainer Wood Badge
                    > Varsity Wood Badge
                    >
                    > Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader 
                    > Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets 
                    > of beads? (Stands to reason you would.) Do you wear both? If you were 
                    > staff on each of these courses, did you get a third bead for each? A 
                    > fourth bead for being a course director for each? And if that's the 
                    > case, does it make you an eight-beader, or a double-four-beader?
                    >
                    > YiS,
                    > Sean
                    >

                    You're right, Sean. I also missed Walking Wood Badge and Explorer Wood
                    Badge (Crews were, I believe, Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett
                    and Jim Bridger).

                    To answer your other questions, as I understand matters:

                    Yes
                    No
                    Yes
                    Yes
                    You could call yourself a double 4 beader if you wished.

                    Or else one could simply call themself Dinizulu and wear as many beads as
                    they wishes :)

                    Best wishes,

                    Neil Lupton


                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • NeilLup@aol.com
                    ... My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the old Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                      In a message dated 10/3/05 4:44:37 PM, cknie23100@... writes:


                      > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter
                      > has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
                      > "requirements"
                      >
                      >
                      > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                      > course with certain requirements.
                      >
                      > Best wishes,
                      >
                      > Neil Lupton
                      >

                      My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the
                      "old" Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                      and during the period of time that they are working it until they complete their
                      ticket, they agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief and woggle from the
                      old course. Once they complete the 21st Century WB ticket, they can go
                      back into full WB regalia.

                      The idea is that if you are going to take the new course, you take the full
                      new course including ticket, not just the one week or two weekends. No
                      "auditors" for the new course.

                      Best wishes,

                      Neil Lupton


                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • rhowe
                      Neil: I concur with your statement on certain requirements. I just checked the upcoming years syllabus and it is stated that way . Ray Howe C-30-05
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                        Neil:

                        I concur with your statement on certain requirements.
                        I just checked the upcoming years syllabus and it is stated that way .



                        Ray Howe
                        C-30-05
                        Simon Kenton Council .At 09:18 PM 10/3/2005, you wrote:

                        >In a message dated 10/3/05 4:44:37 PM, cknie23100@... writes:
                        >
                        >
                        > > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a
                        > scouter
                        > > has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
                        > > "requirements"
                        > >
                        > >
                        > > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                        > > course with certain requirements.
                        > >
                        > > Best wishes,
                        > >
                        > > Neil Lupton
                        > >
                        >
                        >My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the
                        >"old" Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                        >and during the period of time that they are working it until they complete
                        >their
                        >ticket, they agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief and woggle from the
                        >old course. Once they complete the 21st Century WB ticket, they can go
                        >back into full WB regalia.
                        >
                        >The idea is that if you are going to take the new course, you take the full
                        >new course including ticket, not just the one week or two weekends. No
                        >"auditors" for the new course.
                        >
                        >Best wishes,
                        >
                        >Neil Lupton
                        >
                        >
                        >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                        > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                        >Yahoo! Groups Links
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                      • lbthmi@aol.com
                        Hey, I don t know about getting a whole new set of beads. I guess I will either have some one tell me or have to wait and see. But I really have been a bit
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                          Hey, I don't know about getting a whole new set of beads. I guess I will
                          either have some one tell me or have to wait and see. But I really have been a
                          bit more partial to be a Bobwhite than a Buffalo. I heard through the
                          grapevine that I was not made a Bobwhite at my second course purely because I was
                          already one.

                          BTW, our course # for next Spring is C-8-6.
                          ---
                          Leslie

                          In a message dated 10/3/2005 8:56:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                          kevinpate@... writes:

                          > I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood
                          > Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
                          > and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-98 - Buffalo). ...
                          > I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century
                          > course next Spring. Which set of beads do I add
                          > my third bead to?

                          That's easy ... C-33-98 of course.
                          See my reasoning below 8^)

                          Kevin
                          SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo)
                          SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)


                          PS I'm a guessin', cause I always just kinda sorta
                          assumed they gave ya another set of three when ya
                          staff a course.



                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • lbthmi@aol.com
                          Oh wow, I ll be able to claim to be a nine beader :) ... Leslie In a message dated 10/3/2005 9:06:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sscott@argentive.com writes:
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                            Oh wow, I'll be able to claim to be a nine beader :)
                            ---
                            Leslie

                            In a message dated 10/3/2005 9:06:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                            sscott@... writes:

                            On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Kevin Pate wrote:

                            > I always just kinda sorta assumed they gave ya another set of three
                            > when ya staff a course.

                            Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o'beads. If you don't
                            have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make
                            your own woggle...

                            YiS,
                            Sean
                            WM-45-2-00 Buffalo
                            W4-45-02 Troop Guide
                            W4-45-03 Scribe
                            W4-45-04 ASM Troop Guides




                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                          • Judy Yeager
                            I, too, have full regalia (beads, necker and woggle) from Cub Trainer WB (NC-C10 Bobwhite) and Boy Scout WB (C-29-99 Antelope.) I am also a 21st Century
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                              I, too, have full regalia (beads, necker and woggle) from Cub Trainer WB (NC-C10 Bobwhite) and Boy Scout WB (C-29-99 Antelope.) I am also a 21st Century three-beader beginning with CR-Y2K-X3, one of the pilot courses. I have the original 21st Century necker (tan with green piping), as well as the present one, and several of the woggles.

                              In these parts, you do get a brand new set of beads when you become a three beader, so you don't have to decide which one to add the third bead to.

                              During that pilot course, our SM asked that we remove one of our three beads and replace it with a bead from our replica of the Dinizulu necklace. That's a special one for me and it is still there.

                              Judy Yeager


                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • Judy Yeager
                              Connie wrote, I took the very last old WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                                Connie wrote, "I took the very last "old" WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past participants taking the course. Who's idea was it to make this edict?"

                                As others have answered, this ruling has been a good thing for many councils such as ours. We hold one course per year and it is almost always sold out months in advance with "new" people and there is a waiting list. It would be too bad to turn these folks away if those who already have a WB experience filled up the slots.

                                I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.

                                This is the sixth year of 21st Century and has now been accepted by most as the location where the cheese will stay, so that is probably why that restriction has been lifted.

                                And, some day, the cheese will move again and the 21st Century alumni will probably decry the removal of "their" course, just as those who have gone ahead did. That's the way we humans are!

                                Judy Yeager
                                NC-CS-10 Bobwhite
                                C-29-99 Antelope
                                CR-Y2K-X3 and others Staff


                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • Judy Yeager
                                Connie wrote, I took the very last old WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                                  Connie wrote, "I took the very last "old" WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past participants taking the course. Who's idea was it to make this edict?"

                                  As others have answered, this ruling has been a good thing for many councils such as ours. We hold one course per year and it is almost always sold out months in advance with "new" people and there is a waiting list. It would be too bad to turn these folks away if those who already have a WB experience filled up the slots.

                                  I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.

                                  This is the sixth year of 21st Century and has now been accepted by most as the location where the cheese will stay, so that is probably why that restriction has been lifted.

                                  And, some day, the cheese will move again and the 21st Century alumni will probably decry the removal of "their" course, just as those who have gone ahead did. That's the way we humans are!

                                  Judy Yeager
                                  NC-CS-10 Bobwhite
                                  C-29-99 Antelope
                                  CR-Y2K-X3 and others Staff


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • Dave Loomis
                                  I would say that the old Scout Wood Badge folks have a valid point in re Cub Wood Badge, as the aims were totally different. With the 21st Century course
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
                                    I would say that the old Scout Wood Badge folks have a valid point in
                                    re Cub Wood Badge, as the aims were totally different. With the 21st
                                    Century course everybody takes the same material, and even experiences
                                    portions of the other programs.

                                    Dave

                                    Judy Yeager wrote:
                                    >
                                    > I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > Judy Yeager
                                    >

                                    To reply, click on the address below.

                                    Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                                    245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                                    Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                                  • Connie Knie
                                    I don t think anyone can give me a good reason for barring anyone who seeks to better thier leadership skills through training........ Paul
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
                                      I don't think anyone can give me a "good" reason for barring anyone who seeks to better thier leadership skills through training........

                                      Paul <plamson13642@...> wrote:My understanding from our WB coordinater that this was only supposed
                                      to be in effect for the first 2 yrs. After that anyone could take
                                      it.




                                      connie

                                      SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                                      http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                    • lbthmi@aol.com
                                      I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already taken previous courses to attend the new course - been there, done that, got the
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
                                        I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already
                                        taken previous courses to attend the new course - "been there, done that, got
                                        the beads" :)

                                        When I took Boy Scout Wood Badge, eight years after I had taken Cub Scout
                                        Trainer, I had to stand back and allow the others in my Patrol have their
                                        "experience" because it was a repeat for me.

                                        I had a friend on the staff at this course and he told me that I was
                                        discussed a couple of times during Staff meetings because they thought I wasn't
                                        "getting it". He had to remind them that I had already done this before. They
                                        knew I "got it" when I turned in a ticket that needed no revisions :)
                                        ---
                                        Leslie


                                        In a message dated 10/4/2005 8:13:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                        cknie23100@... writes:

                                        I don't think anyone can give me a "good" reason for barring anyone who
                                        seeks to better their leadership skills through training........




                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • Connie Knie
                                        But..........I have only had the old CS WB and know almost nothing of the new one. I have heard the differences are so vast that it is like never having
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
                                          But..........I have only had the "old" CS WB and know almost nothing of the new one. I have heard the differences are so vast that it is like never having taken it.
                                          Also how fair is it to assume everyone will be a loud mouth "That's not the way we did it" kind of person?

                                          I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already
                                          taken previous courses to attend the new course - "been there, done that, got
                                          the beads" :)




                                          connie

                                          SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Carter J Wood
                                          I am new on this list and have just been lurking. Now that I believe that I can make a contribution, let me begin with the usual self introduction. I am a 35+
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 5, 2005
                                            I am new on this list and have just been lurking. Now
                                            that I believe that I can make a contribution, let me
                                            begin with the usual self introduction.

                                            I am a 35+ year Scouter, father of an Eagle and
                                            Grandfather of three Scouts - Bear, 2nd Class, Life.

                                            I am an Eagle from SE-288 in 1979. Since then I have
                                            served on staff for several courses in the previous
                                            syllabus and now five times with the 21st Century
                                            course. I also assisted with one of the Experimental
                                            or 'Pilot' classes and took Sea Badge at SR-SB-X. If
                                            you haven't heard it before, "Sea Badge is just like
                                            Wood Badge - except that it is completely different!"

                                            Next March I will serve as the Course Director for
                                            SR766. Yesterday I rec'd a copy of the newly revised
                                            syllabus, the Admin Guide and the DVD. From just one
                                            evening's review of these materials I can affirm many
                                            of the rumored changes. In the coming days I will
                                            post here the essence of what I get out this newest
                                            material.
                                            If you have a specific question that I do not cover,
                                            just ask. I'll try to help. I'll only report what
                                            the book says. For instance - from page 1 of the
                                            Admin Guide:

                                            Note: Individuals who have attended Wood Badge in the
                                            past (either Cub Scout Trainers' Wood Badge or Boy
                                            Scout Leader Wood Badge) may attend Wood Badge for the
                                            21st Century provided that: (1) They agree to write
                                            and work a Wood Badge for the 21st Century ticket; and
                                            (2) they agree not to wear Wood Badge beads until the
                                            have satisfactorily completed theri Wood Badge of the
                                            21st Century ticket.






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