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Re: [Scouter_T] Wood Badge revision

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  • Sean Scott
    Neil, You missed (at least, there are probably more still): Cub Trainer Wood Badge Varsity Wood Badge Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old)
    Message 1 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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      Neil,

      You missed (at least, there are probably more still):
      Cub Trainer Wood Badge
      Varsity Wood Badge

      Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader
      Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets
      of beads? (Stands to reason you would.) Do you wear both? If you were
      staff on each of these courses, did you get a third bead for each? A
      fourth bead for being a course director for each? And if that's the
      case, does it make you an eight-beader, or a double-four-beader?

      YiS,
      Sean

      On Oct 3, 2005, at 9:03 AM, NeilLup@... wrote:

      > Which "old" one, Alan
    • Kent Wolfe
      I got this from someone who will be on staff for the Course Director s Conference this fall... National is releasing a new WB for the 21st Century syllabus
      Message 2 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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        I got this from someone who will be on staff for the Course Director's
        Conference this fall...




        National is releasing a new WB for the 21st Century syllabus this fall.
        Its use will begin with all 2006 courses. I am currently on staff for
        the Course Directors Conference in KC in 2 weeks and this is the
        syllabus we are to be teaching from (although I havent received it yet -
        go figure).

        As I understand it, the major changes come in two areas...

        One of the most significant changes is the removal of the Blanchard
        material. The concepts that are being taught are the same, however the
        copyrighted material is being removed and replaced with original BSA
        material.

        Some of the terminology has been changed to match that developed for the
        new NYLT course. That way adult leaders and youth leaders can understand
        each other by using the same terminology. Example - Forming, Storming,
        Norming, and Performing have been replaced with the wording from NYLT
        (dont recall the exact words - but similar meaning).

        Other than that, the structure and content of the course has remained
        largely unchanged.

        I'll know more once I receive my new syllabus.

        Kent Wolfe
        Scoutmaster, Troop 12
        Vice Chair, Council Training Committee
        Lincoln, NE
        Buffalo, C-14-01
      • Jay Oakman
        Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets of beads? (Stands to
        Message 3 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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          Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader
          Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets
          of beads? (Stands to reason you would.) Do you wear both? If you were
          staff on each of these courses, did you get a third bead for each? A
          fourth bead for being a course director for each? And if that's the
          case, does it make you an eight-beader, or a double-four-beader?

          YiS,
          Sean

          Wow under your scenario I should wear 14 beads, two for BS, two for
          CS, three for BS, three for CS and four for BS, now wouldn't that
          bring out the uniform police?

          But I think Just a plan old 4 beader will do.

          Jay
        • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
          My troop Committee Chairman took woodbadge at Shiff (sp?) Scout Reservation, which I believe was the national scout camp at the time. He s over 70, so I
          Message 4 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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            My troop Committee Chairman took woodbadge at Shiff (sp?) Scout
            Reservation, which I believe was the national scout camp at the
            time. He's over 70, so I assume he took the course in the 60's.
            Our prior SM (an eagle scout & ASM under our CC, who was the SM at
            the time) took NJLTC (or whatever was the equivalent) at Shiff -
            also in the 60's.

            Pete Mullaney
            Bobwhite
            NE-II-92

            -----Original Message-----
            From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
            Of NeilLup@...
            Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:04 PM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Wood Badge revision



            In a message dated 10/3/05 11:55:56 AM, asmason@... writes:
            >

            Which "old" one, Alan

            The original one given in England?
            The one originally brought to the US?
            The one given in the US in the '60s and very early '70s
            (Scoutmaster's/Trainer's Wood Badge)
            The one given from 1972-2000 (Leadership Development Wood Badge)

            My somewhat facetious point is that there were these "old" Courses that
            served their purpose well at the time but were phased out as needs of the
            BSA and
            needs of participants were perceived to change. Some of the complaints
            that
            I heard about the phasing out of Leadership Development Wood Badge were the
            same complaints that I heard when that course was being phased in much
            earlier.

            I originally took Scoutmaster's Wood Badge and then staffed several
            Leadership Development Wood Badges and directed one. What you are missing
            is
            available through other sources.

            You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
            course with certain requirements.

            Best wishes,

            Neil Lupton




            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-E]
            I served as a QM on our NYLT courses this summer and didn t delve deeply into the syllabus, but I did see Forming, Storming, Norming and Performing used in
            Message 5 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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              I served as a QM on our NYLT courses this summer and didn't delve
              deeply into the syllabus, but I did see "Forming, Storming, Norming
              and Performing" used in some of the presentations I observed.

              Pete Mullaney

              -----Original Message-----
              From: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com [mailto:scouter_t@yahoogroups.com]On Behalf
              Of Kent Wolfe
              Sent: Monday, October 03, 2005 12:20 PM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Wood Badge revision


              <snip> Some of the terminology has been changed to match that developed for
              the
              new NYLT course. That way adult leaders and youth leaders can understand
              each other by using the same terminology. Example - Forming, Storming,
              Norming, and Performing have been replaced with the wording from NYLT
              (dont recall the exact words - but similar meaning).





              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            • Connie Knie
              There is already a revision to the new WB? Ida Lively wrote:At the completion of my course (NE-IV-181), the NE Director for WB,
              Message 6 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                There is already a revision to the new WB?

                Ida Lively <Ilively@...> wrote:At the completion of my course (NE-IV-181), the NE Director for WB, announced that we will be one of the last groups using the 'old' syllabus. A new version of WB for the 21st Century is to be out in July 2006.

                Ida
                - I used to be a Beaver


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                connie

                SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              • Connie Knie
                You know it boggles my mind that anyone would bar someone from taking the new WB course. I too was told the first year it was available in our Council that I
                Message 7 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                  You know it boggles my mind that anyone would "bar" someone from taking the new WB course. I too was told the first year it was available in our Council that I was discouraged from taking the course in order to let in "new" scouters. I took the very last "old" WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past participants taking the course.
                  Who's idea was it to make this edict?




                  connie

                  SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                  http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • lbthmi@aol.com
                  I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite) and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-19 - Buffalo). I joke around and say I am a
                  Message 8 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                    I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
                    and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-19 - Buffalo). I joke around and say I am a
                    four-beader :)

                    I only wear one set at a time. I also only wear one necker and woggle at a
                    time too. :)

                    I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century course next Spring. Which
                    set of beads do I add my third bead to?
                    ---
                    Leslie

                    In a message dated 10/3/2005 12:35:25 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                    sscott@... writes:

                    Neil,

                    You missed (at least, there are probably more still):
                    Cub Trainer Wood Badge
                    Varsity Wood Badge

                    Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader
                    Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets
                    of beads? (Stands to reason you would.) Do you wear both? If you were
                    staff on each of these courses, did you get a third bead for each? A
                    fourth bead for being a course director for each? And if that's the
                    case, does it make you an eight-beader, or a double-four-beader?

                    YiS,
                    Sean



                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  • Paul
                    My understanding from our WB coordinater that this was only supposed to be in effect for the first 2 yrs. After that anyone could take it. ... taking the new
                    Message 9 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                      My understanding from our WB coordinater that this was only supposed
                      to be in effect for the first 2 yrs. After that anyone could take
                      it.

                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Connie Knie <cknie23100@s...>
                      wrote:
                      > You know it boggles my mind that anyone would "bar" someone from
                      taking the new WB course. I too was told the first year it was
                      available in our Council that I was discouraged from taking the
                      course in order to let in "new" scouters. I took the very last "old"
                      WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course
                      was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past
                      participants taking the course.
                      > Who's idea was it to make this edict?
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      >
                      > connie
                      >
                      > SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                      > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Paul
                      We were told same thing, No more Blanchard material. So now the question is, will National drop the fee each course had to pay to use the material? ...
                      Message 10 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                        We were told same thing, No more Blanchard material.

                        So now the question is, will National drop the fee each course had
                        to pay to use the material?


                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Kent Wolfe" <kentw@n...> wrote:
                        > I got this from someone who will be on staff for the Course
                        Director's
                        > Conference this fall...
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > National is releasing a new WB for the 21st Century syllabus this
                        fall.
                        > Its use will begin with all 2006 courses. I am currently on staff
                        for
                        > the Course Directors Conference in KC in 2 weeks and this is the
                        > syllabus we are to be teaching from (although I havent received it
                        yet -
                        > go figure).
                        >
                        > As I understand it, the major changes come in two areas...
                        >
                        > One of the most significant changes is the removal of the Blanchard
                        > material. The concepts that are being taught are the same, however
                        the
                        > copyrighted material is being removed and replaced with original
                        BSA
                        > material.
                        >
                        > Some of the terminology has been changed to match that developed
                        for the
                        > new NYLT course. That way adult leaders and youth leaders can
                        understand
                        > each other by using the same terminology. Example - Forming,
                        Storming,
                        > Norming, and Performing have been replaced with the wording from
                        NYLT
                        > (dont recall the exact words - but similar meaning).
                        >
                        > Other than that, the structure and content of the course has
                        remained
                        > largely unchanged.
                        >
                        > I'll know more once I receive my new syllabus.
                        >
                        > Kent Wolfe
                        > Scoutmaster, Troop 12
                        > Vice Chair, Council Training Committee
                        > Lincoln, NE
                        > Buffalo, C-14-01
                      • Connie Knie
                        Are the certain requirements you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
                        Message 11 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                          Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other "requirements"


                          You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                          course with certain requirements.

                          Best wishes,

                          Neil Lupton


                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



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                          connie

                          SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                          http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                        • Dave Loomis
                          It is my understanding that Wood Badge for the 21st Century was restricted to new candidates initially, to try to fulfill the BSA desire that every Scouter
                          Message 12 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                            It is my understanding that Wood Badge for the 21st Century was
                            restricted to new candidates initially, to try to fulfill the BSA desire
                            that every Scouter might achieve a course within his or her second year
                            in Scouting. In other words, leave room for the new guys.

                            I also understand that graduates from previous courses, Cub Scout, Boy
                            Scout, Explorer, Walking, Afloat, and all of the rest of the previous
                            versions of Wood Badge may now take the current version, provided that
                            they give up/agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief, and woggle
                            until they earn them again by completing the academic and practical
                            parts of the current course.

                            Neil Lupton is probably the person best able to amplify on these remarks.

                            Dave

                            Connie Knie wrote:
                            > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other "requirements"
                            >
                            >
                            > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                            > course with certain requirements.
                            >
                            > Best wishes,
                            >
                            > Neil Lupton
                            >
                            >

                            To reply, click on the address below.

                            Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                            245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                            Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                          • Kevin Pate
                            ... That s easy ... C-33-19 of course. See my reasoning below 8^) Kevin SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo) SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)
                            Message 13 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                              > I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood
                              > Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
                              > and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-19 - Buffalo). ...
                              > I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century
                              > course next Spring. Which set of beads do I add
                              > my third bead to?

                              That's easy ... C-33-19 of course.
                              See my reasoning below 8^)

                              Kevin
                              SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo)
                              SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)


                              PS I'm a guessin', cause I always just kinda sorta
                              assumed they gave ya another set of three when ya
                              staff a course.





                              __________________________________
                              Yahoo! Mail - PC Magazine Editors' Choice 2005
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                            • Sean Scott
                              ... Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o beads. If you don t have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make your own woggle...
                              Message 14 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Kevin Pate wrote:

                                > I always just kinda sorta assumed they gave ya another set of three
                                > when ya staff a course.

                                Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o'beads. If you don't
                                have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make
                                your own woggle...

                                YiS,
                                Sean
                                WM-45-2-00 Buffalo
                                W4-45-02 Troop Guide
                                W4-45-03 Scribe
                                W4-45-04 ASM Troop Guides
                              • NeilLup@aol.com
                                ... You re right, Sean. I also missed Walking Wood Badge and Explorer Wood Badge (Crews were, I believe, Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett
                                Message 15 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                  In a message dated 10/3/05 12:35:36 PM, sscott@... writes:


                                  > Neil,
                                  >
                                  > You missed (at least, there are probably more still):
                                  > Cub Trainer Wood Badge
                                  > Varsity Wood Badge
                                  >
                                  > Which leads me to wonder aloud: If you went to the (old) BS Leader 
                                  > Wood Badge and CS Trainer Wood Badge, did you earn two separate sets 
                                  > of beads? (Stands to reason you would.) Do you wear both? If you were 
                                  > staff on each of these courses, did you get a third bead for each? A 
                                  > fourth bead for being a course director for each? And if that's the 
                                  > case, does it make you an eight-beader, or a double-four-beader?
                                  >
                                  > YiS,
                                  > Sean
                                  >

                                  You're right, Sean. I also missed Walking Wood Badge and Explorer Wood
                                  Badge (Crews were, I believe, Daniel Boone, Kit Carson, Davy Crockett
                                  and Jim Bridger).

                                  To answer your other questions, as I understand matters:

                                  Yes
                                  No
                                  Yes
                                  Yes
                                  You could call yourself a double 4 beader if you wished.

                                  Or else one could simply call themself Dinizulu and wear as many beads as
                                  they wishes :)

                                  Best wishes,

                                  Neil Lupton


                                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                • NeilLup@aol.com
                                  ... My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the old Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                                  Message 16 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                    In a message dated 10/3/05 4:44:37 PM, cknie23100@... writes:


                                    > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a scouter
                                    > has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
                                    > "requirements"
                                    >
                                    >
                                    > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                                    > course with certain requirements.
                                    >
                                    > Best wishes,
                                    >
                                    > Neil Lupton
                                    >

                                    My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the
                                    "old" Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                                    and during the period of time that they are working it until they complete their
                                    ticket, they agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief and woggle from the
                                    old course. Once they complete the 21st Century WB ticket, they can go
                                    back into full WB regalia.

                                    The idea is that if you are going to take the new course, you take the full
                                    new course including ticket, not just the one week or two weekends. No
                                    "auditors" for the new course.

                                    Best wishes,

                                    Neil Lupton


                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • rhowe
                                    Neil: I concur with your statement on certain requirements. I just checked the upcoming years syllabus and it is stated that way . Ray Howe C-30-05
                                    Message 17 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                      Neil:

                                      I concur with your statement on certain requirements.
                                      I just checked the upcoming years syllabus and it is stated that way .



                                      Ray Howe
                                      C-30-05
                                      Simon Kenton Council .At 09:18 PM 10/3/2005, you wrote:

                                      >In a message dated 10/3/05 4:44:37 PM, cknie23100@... writes:
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > > Are the "certain requirements" you are referring to the fact that a
                                      > scouter
                                      > > has to take their position specific training first? Or are there other
                                      > > "requirements"
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > You are correct that previous participants are now eligible to take the
                                      > > course with certain requirements.
                                      > >
                                      > > Best wishes,
                                      > >
                                      > > Neil Lupton
                                      > >
                                      >
                                      >My understanding (could be wrong) is that a participant who took one of the
                                      >"old" Wood Badges must agree to write and work a full 21st Century WB ticket
                                      >and during the period of time that they are working it until they complete
                                      >their
                                      >ticket, they agree not to wear their beads, neckerchief and woggle from the
                                      >old course. Once they complete the 21st Century WB ticket, they can go
                                      >back into full WB regalia.
                                      >
                                      >The idea is that if you are going to take the new course, you take the full
                                      >new course including ticket, not just the one week or two weekends. No
                                      >"auditors" for the new course.
                                      >
                                      >Best wishes,
                                      >
                                      >Neil Lupton
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                      > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                      >
                                      >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
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                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                      >
                                    • lbthmi@aol.com
                                      Hey, I don t know about getting a whole new set of beads. I guess I will either have some one tell me or have to wait and see. But I really have been a bit
                                      Message 18 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                        Hey, I don't know about getting a whole new set of beads. I guess I will
                                        either have some one tell me or have to wait and see. But I really have been a
                                        bit more partial to be a Bobwhite than a Buffalo. I heard through the
                                        grapevine that I was not made a Bobwhite at my second course purely because I was
                                        already one.

                                        BTW, our course # for next Spring is C-8-6.
                                        ---
                                        Leslie

                                        In a message dated 10/3/2005 8:56:54 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                        kevinpate@... writes:

                                        > I earned my beads in both Cub Scout Trainer Wood
                                        > Badge (EC-CS-19 - Bobwhite)
                                        > and Boy Scout Wood Badge (C-33-98 - Buffalo). ...
                                        > I'm going to be on the staff of a 21st Century
                                        > course next Spring. Which set of beads do I add
                                        > my third bead to?

                                        That's easy ... C-33-98 of course.
                                        See my reasoning below 8^)

                                        Kevin
                                        SR-CS-10 (used to be a Bodacious Buffalo)
                                        SR-417 (used to be a Buff Buff Buffalo)


                                        PS I'm a guessin', cause I always just kinda sorta
                                        assumed they gave ya another set of three when ya
                                        staff a course.



                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                      • lbthmi@aol.com
                                        Oh wow, I ll be able to claim to be a nine beader :) ... Leslie In a message dated 10/3/2005 9:06:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, sscott@argentive.com writes:
                                        Message 19 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                          Oh wow, I'll be able to claim to be a nine beader :)
                                          ---
                                          Leslie

                                          In a message dated 10/3/2005 9:06:19 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                          sscott@... writes:

                                          On Oct 3, 2005, at 5:49 PM, Kevin Pate wrote:

                                          > I always just kinda sorta assumed they gave ya another set of three
                                          > when ya staff a course.

                                          Kevin is correct. You get a brand new string o'beads. If you don't
                                          have a WB21 neckerchief, you get one of those, too. You have to make
                                          your own woggle...

                                          YiS,
                                          Sean
                                          WM-45-2-00 Buffalo
                                          W4-45-02 Troop Guide
                                          W4-45-03 Scribe
                                          W4-45-04 ASM Troop Guides




                                          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                        • Judy Yeager
                                          I, too, have full regalia (beads, necker and woggle) from Cub Trainer WB (NC-C10 Bobwhite) and Boy Scout WB (C-29-99 Antelope.) I am also a 21st Century
                                          Message 20 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                            I, too, have full regalia (beads, necker and woggle) from Cub Trainer WB (NC-C10 Bobwhite) and Boy Scout WB (C-29-99 Antelope.) I am also a 21st Century three-beader beginning with CR-Y2K-X3, one of the pilot courses. I have the original 21st Century necker (tan with green piping), as well as the present one, and several of the woggles.

                                            In these parts, you do get a brand new set of beads when you become a three beader, so you don't have to decide which one to add the third bead to.

                                            During that pilot course, our SM asked that we remove one of our three beads and replace it with a bead from our replica of the Dinizulu necklace. That's a special one for me and it is still there.

                                            Judy Yeager


                                            [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                          • Judy Yeager
                                            Connie wrote, I took the very last old WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about
                                            Message 21 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                              Connie wrote, "I took the very last "old" WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past participants taking the course. Who's idea was it to make this edict?"

                                              As others have answered, this ruling has been a good thing for many councils such as ours. We hold one course per year and it is almost always sold out months in advance with "new" people and there is a waiting list. It would be too bad to turn these folks away if those who already have a WB experience filled up the slots.

                                              I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.

                                              This is the sixth year of 21st Century and has now been accepted by most as the location where the cheese will stay, so that is probably why that restriction has been lifted.

                                              And, some day, the cheese will move again and the 21st Century alumni will probably decry the removal of "their" course, just as those who have gone ahead did. That's the way we humans are!

                                              Judy Yeager
                                              NC-CS-10 Bobwhite
                                              C-29-99 Antelope
                                              CR-Y2K-X3 and others Staff


                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Judy Yeager
                                              Connie wrote, I took the very last old WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about
                                              Message 22 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                                Connie wrote, "I took the very last "old" WB course and upon hearing how completely different the new course was I did not understand all the balley hoo about not allowing past participants taking the course. Who's idea was it to make this edict?"

                                                As others have answered, this ruling has been a good thing for many councils such as ours. We hold one course per year and it is almost always sold out months in advance with "new" people and there is a waiting list. It would be too bad to turn these folks away if those who already have a WB experience filled up the slots.

                                                I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.

                                                This is the sixth year of 21st Century and has now been accepted by most as the location where the cheese will stay, so that is probably why that restriction has been lifted.

                                                And, some day, the cheese will move again and the 21st Century alumni will probably decry the removal of "their" course, just as those who have gone ahead did. That's the way we humans are!

                                                Judy Yeager
                                                NC-CS-10 Bobwhite
                                                C-29-99 Antelope
                                                CR-Y2K-X3 and others Staff


                                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                              • Dave Loomis
                                                I would say that the old Scout Wood Badge folks have a valid point in re Cub Wood Badge, as the aims were totally different. With the 21st Century course
                                                Message 23 of 30 , Oct 3, 2005
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                                                  I would say that the old Scout Wood Badge folks have a valid point in
                                                  re Cub Wood Badge, as the aims were totally different. With the 21st
                                                  Century course everybody takes the same material, and even experiences
                                                  portions of the other programs.

                                                  Dave

                                                  Judy Yeager wrote:
                                                  >
                                                  > I think another reason is that when 21st Century came on line, there was a lot of crabbing from the "old timers" about how they ruined the course, it's not really WB, it just won't work, you can't bond as a patrol if you don't cook EVERY meal for a week, it's wussy woodbadge, etc., etc. That is pretty normal when there is a big change - folks just don't like having their cheese moved! The thinking seemed to be that it would not be a quality experience for the "new" folks if there were those on the course who were determined to move the cheese back.
                                                  >
                                                  >
                                                  > Judy Yeager
                                                  >

                                                  To reply, click on the address below.

                                                  Dave Loomis mailto:dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                                                  245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                                                  Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                                                • Connie Knie
                                                  I don t think anyone can give me a good reason for barring anyone who seeks to better thier leadership skills through training........ Paul
                                                  Message 24 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                                    I don't think anyone can give me a "good" reason for barring anyone who seeks to better thier leadership skills through training........

                                                    Paul <plamson13642@...> wrote:My understanding from our WB coordinater that this was only supposed
                                                    to be in effect for the first 2 yrs. After that anyone could take
                                                    it.




                                                    connie

                                                    SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                                                    http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                  • lbthmi@aol.com
                                                    I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already taken previous courses to attend the new course - been there, done that, got the
                                                    Message 25 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                                      I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already
                                                      taken previous courses to attend the new course - "been there, done that, got
                                                      the beads" :)

                                                      When I took Boy Scout Wood Badge, eight years after I had taken Cub Scout
                                                      Trainer, I had to stand back and allow the others in my Patrol have their
                                                      "experience" because it was a repeat for me.

                                                      I had a friend on the staff at this course and he told me that I was
                                                      discussed a couple of times during Staff meetings because they thought I wasn't
                                                      "getting it". He had to remind them that I had already done this before. They
                                                      knew I "got it" when I turned in a ticket that needed no revisions :)
                                                      ---
                                                      Leslie


                                                      In a message dated 10/4/2005 8:13:26 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time,
                                                      cknie23100@... writes:

                                                      I don't think anyone can give me a "good" reason for barring anyone who
                                                      seeks to better their leadership skills through training........




                                                      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                    • Connie Knie
                                                      But..........I have only had the old CS WB and know almost nothing of the new one. I have heard the differences are so vast that it is like never having
                                                      Message 26 of 30 , Oct 4, 2005
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                                                        But..........I have only had the "old" CS WB and know almost nothing of the new one. I have heard the differences are so vast that it is like never having taken it.
                                                        Also how fair is it to assume everyone will be a loud mouth "That's not the way we did it" kind of person?

                                                        I can give you an excellent reason for not allowing people who had already
                                                        taken previous courses to attend the new course - "been there, done that, got
                                                        the beads" :)




                                                        connie

                                                        SUPPORT OUR TROOPS WITH YOUR OLD BLUE JEANS!!
                                                        http://groups.yahoo.com/group/operationquietcomfort/

                                                        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                                      • Carter J Wood
                                                        I am new on this list and have just been lurking. Now that I believe that I can make a contribution, let me begin with the usual self introduction. I am a 35+
                                                        Message 27 of 30 , Oct 5, 2005
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                                                          I am new on this list and have just been lurking. Now
                                                          that I believe that I can make a contribution, let me
                                                          begin with the usual self introduction.

                                                          I am a 35+ year Scouter, father of an Eagle and
                                                          Grandfather of three Scouts - Bear, 2nd Class, Life.

                                                          I am an Eagle from SE-288 in 1979. Since then I have
                                                          served on staff for several courses in the previous
                                                          syllabus and now five times with the 21st Century
                                                          course. I also assisted with one of the Experimental
                                                          or 'Pilot' classes and took Sea Badge at SR-SB-X. If
                                                          you haven't heard it before, "Sea Badge is just like
                                                          Wood Badge - except that it is completely different!"

                                                          Next March I will serve as the Course Director for
                                                          SR766. Yesterday I rec'd a copy of the newly revised
                                                          syllabus, the Admin Guide and the DVD. From just one
                                                          evening's review of these materials I can affirm many
                                                          of the rumored changes. In the coming days I will
                                                          post here the essence of what I get out this newest
                                                          material.
                                                          If you have a specific question that I do not cover,
                                                          just ask. I'll try to help. I'll only report what
                                                          the book says. For instance - from page 1 of the
                                                          Admin Guide:

                                                          Note: Individuals who have attended Wood Badge in the
                                                          past (either Cub Scout Trainers' Wood Badge or Boy
                                                          Scout Leader Wood Badge) may attend Wood Badge for the
                                                          21st Century provided that: (1) They agree to write
                                                          and work a Wood Badge for the 21st Century ticket; and
                                                          (2) they agree not to wear Wood Badge beads until the
                                                          have satisfactorily completed theri Wood Badge of the
                                                          21st Century ticket.






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