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keeping trainers sharp

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  • Kris Monroe
    Hello all I am wondering how you all keep your trainers sharp. How to make sure they cover the syllabus, don t go to off tangent, make sure their information
    Message 1 of 12 , Apr 27, 2005
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      Hello all

      I am wondering how you all keep your trainers sharp.

      How to make sure they cover the syllabus, don't go to off tangent, make
      sure their information is correct, that they give bathroom breaks, are
      in full uniform, etc...

      In theory, good trainers do all of the above anyway, but I recently
      became aware of a trainer who does none of the above and has been
      proceeding like that for years. The situation is fixed, but I am now
      wondering how it was not caught before and more importantly, what I can
      do to prevent it from happening in the future.

      Thanks
      Kris
    • Terilianne@aol.com
      Spot checking on trainers, drop in on their sessions, schedule to teach together. Offer to help, ask for help all ways to find out if someone is training to
      Message 2 of 12 , Apr 27, 2005
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        Spot checking on trainers, drop in on their sessions, schedule to teach
        together. Offer to help, ask for help all ways to find out if someone is
        training to standard


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      • Chad C. Cooper
        In my District we team train so that there is someone there always watching your back if you go off on a tangent, miss a point or forget that people need bio
        Message 3 of 12 , Apr 27, 2005
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          In my District we team train so that there is someone there always
          watching your back if you go off on a tangent, miss a point or forget
          that people need bio breaks.

          - Chad

          Kris Monroe wrote:

          > Hello all
          >
          > I am wondering how you all keep your trainers sharp.
          >
          > How to make sure they cover the syllabus, don't go to off tangent, make
          > sure their information is correct, that they give bathroom breaks, are
          > in full uniform, etc...
          >
          > In theory, good trainers do all of the above anyway, but I recently
          > became aware of a trainer who does none of the above and has been
          > proceeding like that for years. The situation is fixed, but I am now
          > wondering how it was not caught before and more importantly, what I can
          > do to prevent it from happening in the future.
          >
          > Thanks
          > Kris
          >
          >
          >
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        • Judy Yeager
          Kris asked, I am wondering how you all keep your trainers sharp. There are several things that you should do. 1. Recruit a District Training chair who will
          Message 4 of 12 , Apr 27, 2005
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            Kris asked, "I am wondering how you all keep your trainers sharp."

            There are several things that you should do.

            1. Recruit a District Training chair who will set the bar high and be sure that all trainers know what the expectations are.

            2. Use the team approach and develop your staff for any training into a team who is responsible to and for each other.

            3. After each course, have an honest evaluation session - not a back patting session. The discussion should include the high points and the low points and the all right but not spectacular points.

            4. Let your trainers know that they are not recruited for life, they are recruited for a particular course and they may or may not be asked to staff the next course. That way, those who do not perform up to standard are just not asked back.

            5. The District Training Chair should attend as many trainings as possible so he/she knows what's happening. After all, that's where the buck stops - with the Dist Trng Chair.

            The District Training Chair should also communicate to all trainers that there is always room for improvement and encourage the exchange of ideas for improving the team performance. Encourage them to try new methods, new approaches to presentation and rotate assignments so they don't get too comfortable in their own little rut. If you find someone who is especially good at a certain part of the training, it is really a temptation to just leave them there, but chances are that if you give them a new assignment, they will work hard enough to be really good with that presentation, too.

            Most of all, the District Training Chair should make sure that all trainers are recognized for their hard work and that they are a valuable addition to the team.

            Judy Yeager


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          • Scouter Chuck
            Judy Yeager wrote... ... What do you do when there are not enough volunteers to do all the training that needs to be done? You can t force people to be
            Message 5 of 12 , Apr 28, 2005
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              Judy Yeager wrote...

              > 1. Recruit a District Training chair who will set the bar high
              > and be sure that all trainers know what the expectations are.

              What do you do when there are not enough volunteers to do all the
              training that needs to be done? You can't force people to be
              trainers, only ask.

              > 2. Use the team approach and develop your staff for any training
              > into a team who is responsible to and for each other.

              This is a good idea, I think. For one thing, it allows trainers to
              "tag-team" the course, so they are able to rest a bit during the
              training. For another, the trainer who is "sitting out" can help
              keep the discussion on track, if someone asks a question that
              suddenly takes off on a tangent.

              Also, if the one doing that section forgets a key point, the other
              can add it in as a "wouldn't you also?" question.

              > 4. Let your trainers know that they are not recruited for life,
              > they are recruited for a particular course and they may or may
              > not be asked to staff the next course. That way, those who do
              > not perform up to standard are just not asked back.

              So -- are they allowed to learn from a mistake and improve? Or is
              one mistake enough to keep them off the staff for good?

              > 5. The District Training Chair should attend as many trainings
              > as possible so he/she knows what's happening. After all, that's
              > where the buck stops - with the Dist Trng Chair.

              This may be an unrealistic requirement. Our Districts current one
              has a wife who has a chronic, progressive and debilitating illness.

              All the DTCs we''ve had have been good in the jobs.

              > The District Training Chair should also communicate to all
              > trainers that there is always room for improvement and encourage
              > the exchange of ideas for improving the team performance.
              > Encourage them to try new methods, new approaches to presentation

              This is a good idea -- but it won't happen unless the advanced
              training is there -- available to be utilized.

              > and rotate assignments so they don't get too comfortable in their
              > own little rut. If you find someone who is especially good at a
              > certain part of the training, it is really a temptation to just
              > leave them there, but chances are that if you give them a new
              > assignment, they will work hard enough to be really good with
              > that presentation, too.

              I am one of those. I'm comfortable giving the training sessions on
              those that I usually present. Away from that, I don't know enough
              of the material to present and still feel that I'm doing justice to
              the attendees and the material.

              Do that to me and you're likely to lose me.

              Ideally, the trainers should be able to switch off on more than one
              subject. But having the Range master do Safe Swim, and the Safe
              Swim instructor be the Range master is likely to be a recipe for
              disaster.

              You also need to consider that with the advancing knowledge of
              medical science in mental and physical problems, You may run into
              situations where "mixing it up" can create real problems for some
              of your trainers.

              > Most of all, the District Training Chair should make sure that
              > all trainers are recognized for their hard work and that they are
              > a valuable addition to the team.

              Absolutely!

              YiS,

              Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
              I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
              Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
              Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
              "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
              -- Stephen R. Covey
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
            • Judy Yeager
              Chuck asked some good questions about my stance on keeping trainers sharp:
              Message 6 of 12 , Apr 29, 2005
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                Chuck asked some good questions about my stance on keeping trainers sharp:
                <What do you do when there are not enough volunteers <to do all the training that needs to be done? You can't <force people to be trainers, only ask.
                I have been very fortunate in having a really great group of trainers and more wanting to join all the time. I was really concerned about this problem just short of four years ago when we split our huge district into four new smaller districts, but the folks in our little share of the pie have really stepped up to the plate and I would match my training team with any in this Council.

                <So -- are they allowed to learn from a mistake and <improve? Or is one mistake enough to keep them off <the staff for good?

                Of course they are allowed to learn as they go, but if you have someone who does not learn or is not willing to grow in the training job or is just not a team player, you have the option of not recruiting them the next time around. Did you ever recruit someone for an outdoor training only to discover they possess absolutely NO outdoor skills?

                <This may be an unrealistic requirement. Our Districts <current one has a wife who has a chronic, progressive <and debilitating illness.

                I am fortunate enough to have a Cub Training Coordinator, a Boy Scout Training Coordinator and a Venturing Training Coordinator. I attend most but not all trainings, but the Coordinator does.

                <This is a good idea -- but it won't happen unless the <advanced training is there -- available to be <utilized.

                I certainly encourage all trainers to attend TDC and most have. Also, most are Woodbadge trained. I also encourage them to work toward becoming a Certified Trainer, a new program in HOAC. The enthusiasm for this has been phenominal.

                <Ideally, the trainers should be able to switch off on more <than one subject. But having the Range master do <Safe Swim, and the Safe Swim instructor be the Range <master is likely to be a recipe for disaster.

                There are some courses that I have "specialists" for. For example, I have a trainer who does nothing but Climb On Safely three times a year. I also have an aquatics guy who handles Safe Swim, Safety Afloat and Snorkeling, but he also does some other things. We have several on the Boy Scout team with medical backgrounds, so we rotate them. Sometimes folks will say that this is what they do forty (or more) hours a week and don't want to handle that in their "other" life, so they have other assignments. But with courses like NLE, and Position Specific training, we should be able to switch off - surely someone in the Boy Scout program knows more than just unforming. But I don't expect a trainer to accept responsibility for a session they are really uncomfortable with. Just don't ever ask me to cover orienteering - that's WWWWAAAAYYY outside my skill set!!!!
                In the times that I have been privileged to be on Woodbadge staff, I have always had a new job each year and new presentations. Of course it has been more work for me to have to prepare new stuff each year, but it has kept me on my game and helped me to see how all the different parts relate and fit together, rather than concentrating on my part. When you have to prepare a presentation, you learn a whole lot more than you will just reading it in the syllabus or listening to someone else do it. Same goes for NLE, SM/SA Job Specific, Cub Job Specific, etc.

                As trainers, our goal should always be to present a quality product and give the "customers" what they need to present a quality product to their "customers."

                Judy Yeager


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              • Chris
                ... ..........I also encourage them to work toward becoming a Certified Trainer, a new program in HOAC. The enthusiasm for this has been
                Message 7 of 12 , Apr 29, 2005
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                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@e...> wrote:
                  "..........I also encourage them to work toward becoming a Certified
                  Trainer, a new program in HOAC. The enthusiasm for this has been
                  phenominal..................."

                  I'd be REALLY interested in seeing the outline and requirements for
                  your certification program. Would you mind sharing with the list?

                  Thanks,

                  Chris Finnegan
                  Bucks County Council, PA
                • Judy Yeager
                  For those of you who inquired about HOAC s Certified Trainer program, I have uploaded the application HOAC Certified Trainer) in the files section for this
                  Message 8 of 12 , Apr 29, 2005
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                    For those of you who inquired about HOAC's Certified Trainer program, I have uploaded the application HOAC Certified Trainer) in the files section for this group.

                    Credit must be given where credit is due. We "stole" this idea from Mid America Council and used their application as a model for ours. And, like Mid-America Council, trainers who meet these requirements are awarded a special HOAC CSP which designates them as a Certified Trainer.

                    TDC, per the syllabus, deals with the presentation of training and the mechanics involved. Since TDC every four years is a requirement to maintain certification, we have developed an "advanced track" for TDC which covers more the administration of training, program updates, etc. That program is still a work in progress.

                    Train on!!!!

                    Judy Yeager


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                  • Chris
                    ... certification, we have developed an advanced track for TDC which covers more the administration of training, program updates, etc. That program is still
                    Message 9 of 12 , Apr 29, 2005
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                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Judy Yeager <kcjscout@e...> wrote:
                      > .........Since TDC every four years is a requirement to maintain
                      certification, we have developed an "advanced track" for TDC which
                      covers more the administration of training, program updates, etc.
                      That
                      program is still a work in progress.
                      >

                      I have been in search of anyone's "advanced track" TDC for a while
                      now.
                      Even an outline of a successful course would be highly useful. This
                      is
                      sorely needed in a lot of councils. With the demise of the Cub
                      Trainer
                      Woodbadge and the substitution of TDC, the materials available for
                      anything advanced in training don't seem to exist. This isn't a
                      critique of 21st Century WB. I love the new course, but there isn't
                      anything to fill the void left by the old CS Trainer WB.

                      Chris Finnegan
                      Bucks County Council, PA
                      NE-CS-59
                      ...and a good old Bobwhite too
                      NE-II-123,NE-II-150 - Staff
                    • Judy Yeager
                      Chris Finnegan writes, I have been in search of anyone s advanced track TDC for a while now. As earlier stated, ours is a work in progress. What we have
                      Message 10 of 12 , Apr 29, 2005
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                        Chris Finnegan writes, "I have been in search of anyone's "advanced track" TDC for a while now."

                        As earlier stated, ours is a work in progress. What we have covered in the past include having the Council CFO come and talk about insurance and budgeting and the Council Training Chair and Professional Advisor talk about expectations and goals. We also have a session called "What's New" to make sure everyone is aware of the newest stuff, not only in training but in the program areas. Also covered are supplemental trainings that can be offered, how to recruit and develop a team, etc. There's always time for a Q & A with the professionals, Council Trng Chair and presenters. We do opening and closing and two joint sessions with the basic group - How Adults Learn and Pizzazz.

                        I also would like some ideas of other valuable topics for this advanced group to keep them coming back. Someone earlier said that the old TTT syllabus had some good stuff for the advanced folks, but I don't have one of those. Anyone care to share?

                        Judy Yeager


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                      • Ken
                        Chuck, If you are short on trainers, try the following: - Ask the Unit Comissioners to keep an eye out for leaders who they think would make good trainers. -
                        Message 11 of 12 , Apr 29, 2005
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                          Chuck,

                          If you are short on trainers, try the following:
                          - Ask the Unit Comissioners to keep an eye out for leaders who they
                          think would make good trainers.
                          - Talk to the districts around you. Maybe you can work together on
                          some training sessions to ensure sufficient staff and participants.
                          - Have your current and former staff members try to find at least one
                          additional trainer each.

                          Yours in Scouting,
                          Ken

                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Scouter Chuck <antelope95@c...> wrote:
                          > What do you do when there are not enough volunteers to do all the
                          > training that needs to be done? You can't force people to be
                          > trainers, only ask.
                        • Keith Tilley
                          Chris Finnegan wrote: With the demise of the Cub Trainer Woodbadge and the substitution of TDC, the materials available for anything advanced in training
                          Message 12 of 12 , Apr 30, 2005
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                            Chris Finnegan wrote: "With the demise of the Cub Trainer Woodbadge and the
                            substitution of TDC, the materials available for anything advanced in
                            training don't seem to exist. This isn't a critique of 21st Century WB. I
                            love the new course, but there isn't anything to fill the void left by the
                            old CS Trainer WB."



                            As a four-time CSTWB staffer and a WB21C Course Director, I have to agree.
                            When CSTWB was discontinued (and by the way, Chris, yours was the last
                            course to run in the Northeast Region, so we're glad you got in under the
                            wire!), the responsibility for advanced trainer training shifted from the
                            Region to the Council. The only official resource is the TDC syllabus, which
                            does the best it can - it obviously wasn't possible to compress the
                            week-long Wood Badge course into a one-day TDC. The unfortunate part is
                            that no one went back to create a resource to replace all of the CSTWB
                            material that had to be cut.



                            At the BSA Annual Meeting next month, I'll see if I can generate any
                            interest in creating such a resource. The Training Committee's "to do" list
                            is pretty long, so I don't know if there's room for another entry right now
                            - but we'll see!



                            Keith Tilley

                            Rip Van Winkle Council, NY



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