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Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific

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  • Larry D. Ohs
    Kris: The VLST I took in 2002 was an all-day event. Your two-hour training must have covered only 1/3rd of the course material. It is disturbing to know that a
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 21, 2005
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      Kris:

      The VLST I took in 2002 was an all-day event. Your two-hour training must have covered only 1/3rd of the course material. It is disturbing to know that a Council is willing to cut out that much of the material and still call you trained.

      Larry Ohs
      Salt Valley District Training Committee
      Cornhusker Council Venturing Committee
      2005 Jamboree Boating Staff
      "...and a good old Fox, too." W5-63-00

      ----- Original Message -----
      From: Kris Monroe


      Has the syllabus changed recently?

      Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
      my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
      games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
      run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.

      Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
      is run from place to place.



      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Dan Kurtenbach
      On Saturday I went through Venturing Leader Specific Training at our Council s University of Scouting. We did it over six 50-minute class periods (to
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 21, 2005
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        On Saturday I went through Venturing Leader Specific Training at our
        Council's University of Scouting. We did it over six 50-minute class
        periods (to accommodate the U of S schedule). This included Venturing Youth
        Protection, but did not include New Leader Essentials.

        There is often a lot of pressure to cut down training courses, and quite
        often neither the trainers nor the participants really mind (makes the
        training shorter and easier for them). I think what makes that easier is
        that our Position-Specific training courses are all over the lot on how much
        time is required and what elements are or are not included (NLE, YPT, IOLS,
        etc.) Without some uniformity, it is hard to build up the necessary
        expectation on the parts of trainers, schedulers, and participants that
        "Training takes x hours. Period." A first step would be to format all
        Scout training courses the same way, breaking them into uniform, numbered
        time segments (I like 50 minutes, but 30 or 75 would be fine) that would
        make it possible to either do all the segments together or do them over a
        series of evening sessions, and would make it easy for participants to pick
        up particular segments they might have missed, or want a refresher on. (For
        example, a Venturing adult who wants to take just a Venturing YP refresher
        would know from the class schedule to be there at 1:00 PM, the first class
        period after lunch, for Venturing 104.)

        Dan Kurtenbach
        Fairfax, VA
      • Debbie Beer
        The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth. ... From: Kris
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 21, 2005
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          The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that
          time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth.
          ----- Original Message -----
          From: "Kris Monroe" <lightbulb@...>
          To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
          Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:07 AM
          Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific


          >
          > Has the syllabus changed recently?
          >
          > Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
          > my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
          > games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
          > run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.
          >
          > Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
          > is run from place to place.
          >
          > Kris
          >
          > Jim wrote:
          >
          > >I have given this training at least a dozen times in the last three
          > >years. VLST or Venturing Leader Specific Training syllabus is 305
          > >minutes long (5+ hours) without breaks or Q&A. We usually run this
          > >course in 5.5± hours. You could probably run it in about 4 hrs without
          > >the game and with a very small group. But, with almost an hour and a
          > >half of video alone, to do it in any less time would be a disservice to
          > >the participants and the training in my humble opinion.
          > >Yours in Scouting,
          > >
          > >Jim Ball
          > >Council Training Chairman
          > >Central Florida Council (Orlando)
          > >
          > >On Feb 21, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Debbie Beer wrote:
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >>Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
          > >>Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for a
          > >>lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough time
          > >>if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and youth
          > >>protection training.
          > >>
          > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
          > >>
          > >>Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
          > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >>
          > >
          > >
          > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
          > >
          > >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
          > >Yahoo! Groups Links
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          > >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
          > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
          >
          > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
          > Yahoo! Groups Links
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
          >
        • Scouter Chuck
          This is what my District Venturing Trainer had to say... ... That help anyone? YiS, Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@cox.net I used
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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            This is what my District Venturing Trainer had to say...

            > My wife has been to Philmont Training Center the last three years for
            > Venturing Training and has taught VLST many many times. She says minimum of
            > four hours. The course includes Venturing Youth Protection Training and
            > Venturing Personal Safety Awareness (Venturing counterpart to "A Time to
            > Tell/It happened to Me"). Note that the YP Training for Venturing is a
            > different course than the Boy Scouting YP. It contains topics relevant to
            > Venturing and its high school/college age coed environment. Personal Safety
            > Awareness is for both youth and adults. It might be possible to squeeze the
            > VLST course into three hours without YP and PSA, but these are part of the
            > syllabus. They are generally not offered separately, so it would be unusual
            > that someone would have had Venturing YP and PSA without the full VLST. The
            > full course with breaks, lunch and a lot of questions/discussion could go a
            > full day.
            >
            > Based on the comment about "already having YP," I'd say the key point is to
            > understand that Venturing has its own YP. And I would bet its unlikely
            > most people signed up for VLST "already have it".

            That help anyone?

            YiS,

            Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
            I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
            Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
            Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
            "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
            -- Stephen R. Covey
            -------------------------------------------------------------------
          • John Kullman
            Hi Debby, The Venturing Leadership Skills Course is intended to last all day. In Denver we make sure that when they leave our class that they are fully
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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              Hi Debby,
              The Venturing Leadership Skills Course is intended to last all day. In
              Denver we make sure that when they leave our class that they are fully
              trained. That includes New Leader Essentials, if necessary, Fast Start
              Training and Youth Protection Training with both Venturing Adult and Youth
              versions. We also provide a lunch with our training class.

              The VLST syllabus has changed several times but never very drastically. It
              has always been all day training, and never 2 hours. The two hour class
              sounds more like Fast Start.

              We also run our course with what Denver call Chautauqua, which is like the
              University of Scouting. We have had the VLST and added several specialized
              Venturing classes that could also be taken by those not needing the Leader
              Specific training.

              Regards,
              John

              -----Original Message-----
              From: Debbie Beer [mailto:beer@...]
              Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:54 AM
              To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific


              The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that
              time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth.
              ----- Original Message -----
              From: "Kris Monroe" <lightbulb@...>
              To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
              Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:07 AM
              Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific


              >
              > Has the syllabus changed recently?
              >
              > Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
              > my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
              > games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
              > run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.
              >
              > Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
              > is run from place to place.
              >
              > Kris
              >
              > Jim wrote:
              >
              > >I have given this training at least a dozen times in the last three
              > >years. VLST or Venturing Leader Specific Training syllabus is 305
              > >minutes long (5+ hours) without breaks or Q&A. We usually run this
              > >course in 5.5± hours. You could probably run it in about 4 hrs without
              > >the game and with a very small group. But, with almost an hour and a
              > >half of video alone, to do it in any less time would be a disservice to
              > >the participants and the training in my humble opinion.
              > >Yours in Scouting,
              > >
              > >Jim Ball
              > >Council Training Chairman
              > >Central Florida Council (Orlando)
              > >
              > >On Feb 21, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Debbie Beer wrote:
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >>Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
              > >>Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for a
              > >>lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough time
              > >>if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and youth
              > >>protection training.
              > >>
              > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              > >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
              > >>
              > >>Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
              > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >>
              > >
              > >
              > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
              > >
              > >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
              > >Yahoo! Groups Links
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              > >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
              >
              > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
              > Yahoo! Groups Links
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >
              >




              For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
              scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

              Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
              Yahoo! Groups Links
            • beer
              Can you send me a list of the Venturing courses that you offer at your training college? Some information as to content would also be helpful ... From: John
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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                Can you send me a list of the Venturing courses that you offer at your training college? Some information as to content would also be helpful


                ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                From: John Kullman <john.kullman@...>
                Reply-To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:18:02 -0700

                >
                >Hi Debby,
                >The Venturing Leadership Skills Course is intended to last all day. In
                >Denver we make sure that when they leave our class that they are fully
                >trained. That includes New Leader Essentials, if necessary, Fast Start
                >Training and Youth Protection Training with both Venturing Adult and Youth
                >versions. We also provide a lunch with our training class.
                >
                >The VLST syllabus has changed several times but never very drastically. It
                >has always been all day training, and never 2 hours. The two hour class
                >sounds more like Fast Start.
                >
                >We also run our course with what Denver call Chautauqua, which is like the
                >University of Scouting. We have had the VLST and added several specialized
                >Venturing classes that could also be taken by those not needing the Leader
                >Specific training.
                >
                >Regards,
                >John
                >
                >-----Original Message-----
                >From: Debbie Beer [mailto:beer@...]
                >Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:54 AM
                >To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific
                >
                >
                >The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that
                >time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth.
                >----- Original Message -----
                >From: "Kris Monroe" <lightbulb@...>
                >To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                >Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:07 AM
                >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific
                >
                >
                >>
                >> Has the syllabus changed recently?
                >>
                >> Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
                >> my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
                >> games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
                >> run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.
                >>
                >> Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
                >> is run from place to place.
                >>
                >> Kris
                >>
                >> Jim wrote:
                >>
                >> >I have given this training at least a dozen times in the last three
                >> >years. VLST or Venturing Leader Specific Training syllabus is 305
                >> >minutes long (5+ hours) without breaks or Q&A. We usually run this
                >> >course in 5.5± hours. You could probably run it in about 4 hrs without
                >> >the game and with a very small group. But, with almost an hour and a
                >> >half of video alone, to do it in any less time would be a disservice to
                >> >the participants and the training in my humble opinion.
                >> >Yours in Scouting,
                >> >
                >> >Jim Ball
                >> >Council Training Chairman
                >> >Central Florida Council (Orlando)
                >> >
                >> >On Feb 21, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Debbie Beer wrote:
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >>Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
                >> >>Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for a
                >> >>lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough time
                >> >>if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and youth
                >> >>protection training.
                >> >>
                >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                >> >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >> >>
                >> >>Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >>
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                >> > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >> >
                >> >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >> >
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >>
                >> Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >>
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >
                >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                >Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
              • Michael Brown
                ... There have been minor changes over the years. The course started off as a 4 hour course, soon expanding to 5 hours. As new changes to the Venturing
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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                  --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Kris Monroe <lightbulb@y...> wrote:
                  > Has the syllabus changed recently?
                  >

                  There have been minor changes over the years.

                  The course started off as a 4 hour course, soon expanding to 5
                  hours. As new changes to the Venturing program (new awards, etc),
                  they have updated the course.

                  Latest version is #33491D, which came out in 2002.

                  Michael Brown
                • Kris Swank
                  We run the Venturing Specific on a week night from 6:00-10:30, Sometimes shorter, it depends on how many folks are in attendance. When only 3 show up its hard
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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                    We run the Venturing Specific on a week night from 6:00-10:30, Sometimes
                    shorter, it depends on how many folks are in attendance. When only 3
                    show up its hard to play the game. We do not show the whole Personal
                    Safety Awaareness, usually we show the Internet Safety/Stalking segment
                    and describe the others.
                    We have tried an all-day on weekends but it has not gone over well, very
                    few participants.
                    Kris Swank
                    OT Training Chair
                    East Texas Area Council
                    Associat Advisor Crew 589, Tyler TX
                  • Scott Eliason
                    Debbie and Group, The current VLST takes a good five hours, to do completely and correctly. Our course, which I put on 2-3 times a year, begins instruction at
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 24, 2005
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                      Debbie and Group,

                      The current VLST takes a good five hours, to do completely and
                      correctly. Our course, which I put on 2-3 times a year, begins
                      instruction at 9 am and continues to 3:30 pm, with a 40 minute break
                      for lunch. We do take bathroom and stretch breaks from time to time,
                      but they don't use up much time. I have found that we can do the
                      entire Personal Safety Awareness with all three scenarios and stay
                      on time. You are only required to do one, so it is an area where
                      time lost can be made up.

                      There are things to remember and reinforce to Boy Scout and Cub
                      Scout program trainers and other volunteer and professional
                      Scouters.

                      1 - Fast Start is Venturing specific and is available on-line.
                      However, FS is also an integral part of VLST;

                      2 - Youth Protection for Venturing adults and youth is VERY
                      different from YP for CS and BS program adults and youth. The Adult
                      Youth Protection program used in long and short forms with Cub and
                      Boy Scout leaders is inadequate for Venturing leaders and will NOT
                      substitute for it. "A Time To Tell" and "It Happened To Me" work
                      very well for the younger youth and are age appropriate for the
                      programs. Personal Safety Awareness is for older youth and we need
                      to stay with the age appropriate training programs;

                      3 - A Venturing leader is fully trained with Fast Start and VLST.
                      Outdoor crew leaders are encouraged to attend Introduction to
                      Outdoor Skills, if not already done, but it is not required; and
                      finally,

                      4 - Short-cutting and condensing any of our adult training programs
                      by districts and councils is short-sighted and an insult to the
                      integrity of the programs and our adult leaders.

                      We trainers need to insist on fully training adults and not be bull-
                      dozed by the thinking that adults can't afford the time required to
                      be trained. We need to find innovative ways to get the training to
                      the adults, if necessary, but train them we must. James West said it
                      best, Training, Training and Training.

                      In short, No, Debbie, four hours is insufficient, New Leader
                      Essentials is separate training, and they will likely have not
                      already had the correct youth protection training.

                      Scott Eliason
                      Venturing Training Coordinator, Aquila District, Chief Seattle
                      Council
                      Advisor, Venturing Crew 391, Des Moines, Washington

                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                      >
                      > Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
                      Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for
                      a lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough
                      time if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and
                      youth protection training.
                      >
                      > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                    • Michael Brown
                      ... You forgot NLE. :) Otherwise an excellent post! Michael Brown
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 25, 2005
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                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Eliason" <sreliason@m...>
                        wrote:
                        >

                        >
                        > 3 - A Venturing leader is fully trained with Fast Start and VLST.
                        > Outdoor crew leaders are encouraged to attend Introduction to
                        > Outdoor Skills, if not already done, but it is not required; and
                        > finally,
                        >

                        You forgot NLE. :) Otherwise an excellent post!

                        Michael Brown
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