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Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific

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  • Kris Monroe
    Has the syllabus changed recently? Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No
    Message 1 of 14 , Feb 21, 2005
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      Has the syllabus changed recently?

      Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
      my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
      games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
      run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.

      Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
      is run from place to place.

      Kris

      Jim wrote:

      >I have given this training at least a dozen times in the last three
      >years. VLST or Venturing Leader Specific Training syllabus is 305
      >minutes long (5+ hours) without breaks or Q&A. We usually run this
      >course in 5.5± hours. You could probably run it in about 4 hrs without
      >the game and with a very small group. But, with almost an hour and a
      >half of video alone, to do it in any less time would be a disservice to
      >the participants and the training in my humble opinion.
      >Yours in Scouting,
      >
      >Jim Ball
      >Council Training Chairman
      >Central Florida Council (Orlando)
      >
      >On Feb 21, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Debbie Beer wrote:
      >
      >
      >
      >>Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
      >>Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for a
      >>lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough time
      >>if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and youth
      >>protection training.
      >>
      >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      >>
      >>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
      >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
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      >>Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
      >>Yahoo! Groups Links
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      >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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      >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
      > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
      >
      >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
      >Yahoo! Groups Links
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    • Larry D. Ohs
      Kris: The VLST I took in 2002 was an all-day event. Your two-hour training must have covered only 1/3rd of the course material. It is disturbing to know that a
      Message 2 of 14 , Feb 21, 2005
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        Kris:

        The VLST I took in 2002 was an all-day event. Your two-hour training must have covered only 1/3rd of the course material. It is disturbing to know that a Council is willing to cut out that much of the material and still call you trained.

        Larry Ohs
        Salt Valley District Training Committee
        Cornhusker Council Venturing Committee
        2005 Jamboree Boating Staff
        "...and a good old Fox, too." W5-63-00

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Kris Monroe


        Has the syllabus changed recently?

        Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
        my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
        games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
        run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.

        Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
        is run from place to place.



        [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
      • Dan Kurtenbach
        On Saturday I went through Venturing Leader Specific Training at our Council s University of Scouting. We did it over six 50-minute class periods (to
        Message 3 of 14 , Feb 21, 2005
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          On Saturday I went through Venturing Leader Specific Training at our
          Council's University of Scouting. We did it over six 50-minute class
          periods (to accommodate the U of S schedule). This included Venturing Youth
          Protection, but did not include New Leader Essentials.

          There is often a lot of pressure to cut down training courses, and quite
          often neither the trainers nor the participants really mind (makes the
          training shorter and easier for them). I think what makes that easier is
          that our Position-Specific training courses are all over the lot on how much
          time is required and what elements are or are not included (NLE, YPT, IOLS,
          etc.) Without some uniformity, it is hard to build up the necessary
          expectation on the parts of trainers, schedulers, and participants that
          "Training takes x hours. Period." A first step would be to format all
          Scout training courses the same way, breaking them into uniform, numbered
          time segments (I like 50 minutes, but 30 or 75 would be fine) that would
          make it possible to either do all the segments together or do them over a
          series of evening sessions, and would make it easy for participants to pick
          up particular segments they might have missed, or want a refresher on. (For
          example, a Venturing adult who wants to take just a Venturing YP refresher
          would know from the class schedule to be there at 1:00 PM, the first class
          period after lunch, for Venturing 104.)

          Dan Kurtenbach
          Fairfax, VA
        • Debbie Beer
          The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth. ... From: Kris
          Message 4 of 14 , Feb 21, 2005
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            The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that
            time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth.
            ----- Original Message -----
            From: "Kris Monroe" <lightbulb@...>
            To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
            Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:07 AM
            Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific


            >
            > Has the syllabus changed recently?
            >
            > Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
            > my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
            > games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
            > run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.
            >
            > Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
            > is run from place to place.
            >
            > Kris
            >
            > Jim wrote:
            >
            > >I have given this training at least a dozen times in the last three
            > >years. VLST or Venturing Leader Specific Training syllabus is 305
            > >minutes long (5+ hours) without breaks or Q&A. We usually run this
            > >course in 5.5± hours. You could probably run it in about 4 hrs without
            > >the game and with a very small group. But, with almost an hour and a
            > >half of video alone, to do it in any less time would be a disservice to
            > >the participants and the training in my humble opinion.
            > >Yours in Scouting,
            > >
            > >Jim Ball
            > >Council Training Chairman
            > >Central Florida Council (Orlando)
            > >
            > >On Feb 21, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Debbie Beer wrote:
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >>Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
            > >>Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for a
            > >>lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough time
            > >>if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and youth
            > >>protection training.
            > >>
            > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            > >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
            > >>
            > >>Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
            > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >>
            > >
            > >
            > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
            > >
            > >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
            > >Yahoo! Groups Links
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            > >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
            > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
            >
            > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
            > Yahoo! Groups Links
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
            >
          • Scouter Chuck
            This is what my District Venturing Trainer had to say... ... That help anyone? YiS, Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@cox.net I used
            Message 5 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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              This is what my District Venturing Trainer had to say...

              > My wife has been to Philmont Training Center the last three years for
              > Venturing Training and has taught VLST many many times. She says minimum of
              > four hours. The course includes Venturing Youth Protection Training and
              > Venturing Personal Safety Awareness (Venturing counterpart to "A Time to
              > Tell/It happened to Me"). Note that the YP Training for Venturing is a
              > different course than the Boy Scouting YP. It contains topics relevant to
              > Venturing and its high school/college age coed environment. Personal Safety
              > Awareness is for both youth and adults. It might be possible to squeeze the
              > VLST course into three hours without YP and PSA, but these are part of the
              > syllabus. They are generally not offered separately, so it would be unusual
              > that someone would have had Venturing YP and PSA without the full VLST. The
              > full course with breaks, lunch and a lot of questions/discussion could go a
              > full day.
              >
              > Based on the comment about "already having YP," I'd say the key point is to
              > understand that Venturing has its own YP. And I would bet its unlikely
              > most people signed up for VLST "already have it".

              That help anyone?

              YiS,

              Chuck Bramlet -- Phoenix, Az. ----- mailto:antelope95@...
              I "used to be" an Antelope! -- WEM-10-95
              Thunderbird District -- Grand Canyon Council
              Committee Member at Large, Roundtable Staff -- Member DNRC
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
              "The main thing is to keep the main thing the main thing"
              -- Stephen R. Covey
              -------------------------------------------------------------------
            • John Kullman
              Hi Debby, The Venturing Leadership Skills Course is intended to last all day. In Denver we make sure that when they leave our class that they are fully
              Message 6 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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                Hi Debby,
                The Venturing Leadership Skills Course is intended to last all day. In
                Denver we make sure that when they leave our class that they are fully
                trained. That includes New Leader Essentials, if necessary, Fast Start
                Training and Youth Protection Training with both Venturing Adult and Youth
                versions. We also provide a lunch with our training class.

                The VLST syllabus has changed several times but never very drastically. It
                has always been all day training, and never 2 hours. The two hour class
                sounds more like Fast Start.

                We also run our course with what Denver call Chautauqua, which is like the
                University of Scouting. We have had the VLST and added several specialized
                Venturing classes that could also be taken by those not needing the Leader
                Specific training.

                Regards,
                John

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Debbie Beer [mailto:beer@...]
                Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:54 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific


                The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that
                time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth.
                ----- Original Message -----
                From: "Kris Monroe" <lightbulb@...>
                To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:07 AM
                Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific


                >
                > Has the syllabus changed recently?
                >
                > Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
                > my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
                > games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
                > run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.
                >
                > Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
                > is run from place to place.
                >
                > Kris
                >
                > Jim wrote:
                >
                > >I have given this training at least a dozen times in the last three
                > >years. VLST or Venturing Leader Specific Training syllabus is 305
                > >minutes long (5+ hours) without breaks or Q&A. We usually run this
                > >course in 5.5± hours. You could probably run it in about 4 hrs without
                > >the game and with a very small group. But, with almost an hour and a
                > >half of video alone, to do it in any less time would be a disservice to
                > >the participants and the training in my humble opinion.
                > >Yours in Scouting,
                > >
                > >Jim Ball
                > >Council Training Chairman
                > >Central Florida Council (Orlando)
                > >
                > >On Feb 21, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Debbie Beer wrote:
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >>Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
                > >>Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for a
                > >>lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough time
                > >>if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and youth
                > >>protection training.
                > >>
                > >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                > >>
                > >>Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                > >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >>
                > >
                > >
                > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                > >
                > >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                > >Yahoo! Groups Links
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                > >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                >
                > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                > Yahoo! Groups Links
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >
                >




                For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com

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                Yahoo! Groups Links
              • beer
                Can you send me a list of the Venturing courses that you offer at your training college? Some information as to content would also be helpful ... From: John
                Message 7 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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                  Can you send me a list of the Venturing courses that you offer at your training college? Some information as to content would also be helpful


                  ---------- Original Message ----------------------------------
                  From: John Kullman <john.kullman@...>
                  Reply-To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2005 12:18:02 -0700

                  >
                  >Hi Debby,
                  >The Venturing Leadership Skills Course is intended to last all day. In
                  >Denver we make sure that when they leave our class that they are fully
                  >trained. That includes New Leader Essentials, if necessary, Fast Start
                  >Training and Youth Protection Training with both Venturing Adult and Youth
                  >versions. We also provide a lunch with our training class.
                  >
                  >The VLST syllabus has changed several times but never very drastically. It
                  >has always been all day training, and never 2 hours. The two hour class
                  >sounds more like Fast Start.
                  >
                  >We also run our course with what Denver call Chautauqua, which is like the
                  >University of Scouting. We have had the VLST and added several specialized
                  >Venturing classes that could also be taken by those not needing the Leader
                  >Specific training.
                  >
                  >Regards,
                  >John
                  >
                  >-----Original Message-----
                  >From: Debbie Beer [mailto:beer@...]
                  >Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:54 AM
                  >To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                  >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific
                  >
                  >
                  >The program has changed. It keeps changing every year. Probably at that
                  >time, that was the training, but now the training is more indepth.
                  >----- Original Message -----
                  >From: "Kris Monroe" <lightbulb@...>
                  >To: <scouter_t@yahoogroups.com>
                  >Sent: Monday, February 21, 2005 10:07 AM
                  >Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] Venturing Specific
                  >
                  >
                  >>
                  >> Has the syllabus changed recently?
                  >>
                  >> Several years ago in a neighboring council I went to their Uof S and got
                  >> my Trained strip and card in a 2 hour block. No videos at all, no
                  >> games. I certainly didn't leave there feeling like I was prepared to
                  >> run a crew, but as far as they were concerned, I was trained.
                  >>
                  >> Its kind of disturbing when you think about how differently the program
                  >> is run from place to place.
                  >>
                  >> Kris
                  >>
                  >> Jim wrote:
                  >>
                  >> >I have given this training at least a dozen times in the last three
                  >> >years. VLST or Venturing Leader Specific Training syllabus is 305
                  >> >minutes long (5+ hours) without breaks or Q&A. We usually run this
                  >> >course in 5.5± hours. You could probably run it in about 4 hrs without
                  >> >the game and with a very small group. But, with almost an hour and a
                  >> >half of video alone, to do it in any less time would be a disservice to
                  >> >the participants and the training in my humble opinion.
                  >> >Yours in Scouting,
                  >> >
                  >> >Jim Ball
                  >> >Council Training Chairman
                  >> >Central Florida Council (Orlando)
                  >> >
                  >> >On Feb 21, 2005, at 10:19 AM, Debbie Beer wrote:
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >>Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
                  >> >>Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for a
                  >> >>lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough time
                  >> >>if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and youth
                  >> >>protection training.
                  >> >>
                  >> >>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  >> >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >> >>
                  >> >>Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                  >> >>Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >>
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  >> > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >> >
                  >> >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                  >> >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >> >
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >> For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  >> scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >>
                  >> Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                  >> Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >>
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                  >
                  >Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                  >Yahoo! Groups Links
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                  >
                • Michael Brown
                  ... There have been minor changes over the years. The course started off as a 4 hour course, soon expanding to 5 hours. As new changes to the Venturing
                  Message 8 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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                    --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Kris Monroe <lightbulb@y...> wrote:
                    > Has the syllabus changed recently?
                    >

                    There have been minor changes over the years.

                    The course started off as a 4 hour course, soon expanding to 5
                    hours. As new changes to the Venturing program (new awards, etc),
                    they have updated the course.

                    Latest version is #33491D, which came out in 2002.

                    Michael Brown
                  • Kris Swank
                    We run the Venturing Specific on a week night from 6:00-10:30, Sometimes shorter, it depends on how many folks are in attendance. When only 3 show up its hard
                    Message 9 of 14 , Feb 22, 2005
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                      We run the Venturing Specific on a week night from 6:00-10:30, Sometimes
                      shorter, it depends on how many folks are in attendance. When only 3
                      show up its hard to play the game. We do not show the whole Personal
                      Safety Awaareness, usually we show the Internet Safety/Stalking segment
                      and describe the others.
                      We have tried an all-day on weekends but it has not gone over well, very
                      few participants.
                      Kris Swank
                      OT Training Chair
                      East Texas Area Council
                      Associat Advisor Crew 589, Tyler TX
                    • Scott Eliason
                      Debbie and Group, The current VLST takes a good five hours, to do completely and correctly. Our course, which I put on 2-3 times a year, begins instruction at
                      Message 10 of 14 , Feb 24, 2005
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                        Debbie and Group,

                        The current VLST takes a good five hours, to do completely and
                        correctly. Our course, which I put on 2-3 times a year, begins
                        instruction at 9 am and continues to 3:30 pm, with a 40 minute break
                        for lunch. We do take bathroom and stretch breaks from time to time,
                        but they don't use up much time. I have found that we can do the
                        entire Personal Safety Awareness with all three scenarios and stay
                        on time. You are only required to do one, so it is an area where
                        time lost can be made up.

                        There are things to remember and reinforce to Boy Scout and Cub
                        Scout program trainers and other volunteer and professional
                        Scouters.

                        1 - Fast Start is Venturing specific and is available on-line.
                        However, FS is also an integral part of VLST;

                        2 - Youth Protection for Venturing adults and youth is VERY
                        different from YP for CS and BS program adults and youth. The Adult
                        Youth Protection program used in long and short forms with Cub and
                        Boy Scout leaders is inadequate for Venturing leaders and will NOT
                        substitute for it. "A Time To Tell" and "It Happened To Me" work
                        very well for the younger youth and are age appropriate for the
                        programs. Personal Safety Awareness is for older youth and we need
                        to stay with the age appropriate training programs;

                        3 - A Venturing leader is fully trained with Fast Start and VLST.
                        Outdoor crew leaders are encouraged to attend Introduction to
                        Outdoor Skills, if not already done, but it is not required; and
                        finally,

                        4 - Short-cutting and condensing any of our adult training programs
                        by districts and councils is short-sighted and an insult to the
                        integrity of the programs and our adult leaders.

                        We trainers need to insist on fully training adults and not be bull-
                        dozed by the thinking that adults can't afford the time required to
                        be trained. We need to find innovative ways to get the training to
                        the adults, if necessary, but train them we must. James West said it
                        best, Training, Training and Training.

                        In short, No, Debbie, four hours is insufficient, New Leader
                        Essentials is separate training, and they will likely have not
                        already had the correct youth protection training.

                        Scott Eliason
                        Venturing Training Coordinator, Aquila District, Chief Seattle
                        Council
                        Advisor, Venturing Crew 391, Des Moines, Washington

                        --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Debbie Beer" <beer@c...> wrote:
                        >
                        > Does anyone know exactly how long it takes to put on Venturing
                        Specific training. I am being given four hours minus one hour for
                        a lunch break to present Venturing Specific. Will that be enough
                        time if they have already had New Leader Essentials training and
                        youth protection training.
                        >
                        > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                      • Michael Brown
                        ... You forgot NLE. :) Otherwise an excellent post! Michael Brown
                        Message 11 of 14 , Feb 25, 2005
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                          --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "Scott Eliason" <sreliason@m...>
                          wrote:
                          >

                          >
                          > 3 - A Venturing leader is fully trained with Fast Start and VLST.
                          > Outdoor crew leaders are encouraged to attend Introduction to
                          > Outdoor Skills, if not already done, but it is not required; and
                          > finally,
                          >

                          You forgot NLE. :) Otherwise an excellent post!

                          Michael Brown
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