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RE: [Scouter_T] What is a "Trained" Leader?

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  • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-P]
    Comment - I ve never seen YPT as a requirement to be considered position trained . Pete Mullaney ... From: Kevin Pate [mailto:kevinpate@yahoo.com] Sent:
    Message 1 of 29 , Jan 13, 2005
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      Comment - I've never seen YPT as a requirement to be considered
      'position trained'.

      Pete Mullaney

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Kevin Pate [mailto:kevinpate@...]
      Sent: Thursday, January 13, 2005 1:08 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: Re: [Scouter_T] What is a "Trained" Leader?


      > definition of a "Trained" BS
      > leader (i.e. a leader that can wear the "Trained"
      > strip on his/her uniform) was a leader that had
      taken:
      >
      > 1) Fast Start
      > 2) YPT
      > 3) Position Specific (SM/ASM takes SMF and CC/MC
      > takes Committee
      > Challenge)
      >
      > Is this still correct?

      Don,

      Add in Intro Outdoor Leader Skills for the SM/SA crowd
      and you're all set.

      Also,

      Varsity Scout leaders and assistants are considered
      trained when they have completed New Leader
      Essentials, Varsity Scout Leader Specific Training,
      and Introduction to Outdoor Leader Skills.

      Venturing crew Advisors, assistant Advisors, and crew
      committee members are considered trained when they
      have completed New Leader Essentials and Venturing
      Leader Specific Training.

      Toodles from Kevin in Oklahoma



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    • Fred Goodwin, CMA
      ... John, are Troop Committee members required to take IOLS in order to be considered trained as committee members? I thought IOLS was required of SMs and
      Message 2 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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        > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:11:41 -0500
        > From: John Halter <john@...>
        >
        > For the Boy Scout program, you also need to complete the Intro to
        > Outdoor Leader Skills to be considered trained.

        John, are Troop Committee members required to take IOLS in order to
        be considered "trained" as committee members? I thought IOLS was
        required of SMs and ASMs only, but I could be mistaken.

        Fred Goodwin
      • edward michelin
        Hi Fred, To be consider trained as a Committee Member, a scouter must take: BS Fast Start New Leader Essentials Troop Committee Chalenge Youth Protection ( is
        Message 3 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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          Hi Fred,
          To be consider trained as a Committee Member, a scouter must take:
          BS Fast Start
          New Leader Essentials
          Troop Committee Chalenge
          Youth Protection ( is a "must" Option)
          To wear the Trained patch you need the first three.
          But you should complete YP as soon as possible thereafter.

          I use to be an owl
          NE11-144
          Ed Michelin
          4Rivers District Trng Coordinator

          "Fred Goodwin, CMA" <fgoodwin@...> wrote:
          > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:11:41 -0500
          > From: John Halter <john@...>
          >
          > For the Boy Scout program, you also need to complete the Intro to
          > Outdoor Leader Skills to be considered trained.

          John, are Troop Committee members required to take IOLS in order to
          be considered "trained" as committee members? I thought IOLS was
          required of SMs and ASMs only, but I could be mistaken.

          Fred Goodwin



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        • Jim Von Schmacht
          No. Fast Start New Leader Essentials Troop Committee Challenge Youth Protection That s all that s required for a committee member. Jim von Schmacht Loma Prieta
          Message 4 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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            No.

            Fast Start

            New Leader Essentials

            Troop Committee Challenge

            Youth Protection



            That's all that's required for a committee member.



            Jim von Schmacht

            Loma Prieta District Training Chair

            Monterey Bay Area Council



            _____

            From: Fred Goodwin, CMA [mailto:fgoodwin@...]
            Sent: Friday, January 14, 2005 8:28 AM
            To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
            Subject: [Scouter_T] Re: What is a "Trained" Leader?



            > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:11:41 -0500
            > From: John Halter <john@...>
            >
            > For the Boy Scout program, you also need to complete the Intro to
            > Outdoor Leader Skills to be considered trained.

            John, are Troop Committee members required to take IOLS in order to
            be considered "trained" as committee members? I thought IOLS was
            required of SMs and ASMs only, but I could be mistaken.

            Fred Goodwin



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          • JimK
            I don t see this question getting answered adequately. Half the responses say YP is required while the other half say it isn t. This is one of my
            Message 5 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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              I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the responses
              say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
              frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
              Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
              particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National source (not
              another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.

              - Jim
            • Richard Pushies
              Hi Jim, Youth Protection training is NOT required to be a trained leader. A great reference for all the current training requirements is: Leadership Training
              Message 6 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                Hi Jim,

                Youth Protection training is NOT required to be a trained leader. A
                great reference for all the current training requirements is:
                Leadership Training Committee Guide, No. 34169F. This is the official
                guide to training for the Boy Scouts of America. It is a "Highly
                Recommended" training and one adult on each Local Tour Permit must
                have Youth Protection Training and all adults on a National Tour
                Permit must have Youth Protection Training.

                Yours Truly in Scouting,
                Rick Pushies


                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, "JimK" <jimsub2@g...> wrote:
                > I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the
                responses
                > say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one
                of my
                > frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                > Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                > particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National
                source (not
                > another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                >
                > - Jim
              • mrmarks2@aol.com
                Jim, I understand your frustration! I refer you back to my original e-mail where I gave the URL to the National source
                Message 7 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                  Jim,

                  I understand your frustration!

                  I refer you back to my original e-mail where I gave the URL to the National
                  source
                  _http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-390/_
                  (http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-390/)

                  Clearly, National does NOT require youth protection training.

                  It is possible that some local Councils require YPT. Maybe even some
                  Districts.
                  Taking youth protection training is so important, why not??? But if you
                  said it's not required in an argument - you would win.

                  It's like the belief you "must" take YPT every three years. NOT a National
                  requirement. In some cases it's a local "rule". But in many Councils it's
                  become a de facto rule because it's been said enough times that everyone
                  believes it. This is probably because there's a "SUGGESTION" in the video that
                  participant retake the training every two to three years.

                  Is it a good idea to refresh your training on a regular basis?- YES! Is it
                  a requirement? - NO!

                  mm

                  In a message dated 1/14/2005 1:02:46 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                  jimsub2@... writes:


                  I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the responses
                  say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                  frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                  Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                  particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National source (not
                  another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.

                  - Jim





                  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                • Wendell Brown
                  ... Ok, I ll take a stab at it. Check out this URL (it comes directly from National): http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-813/ What Makes a Trained
                  Message 8 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                    JimK wrote:

                    >I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the responses
                    >say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                    >frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                    >Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                    >particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National source (not
                    >another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                    >
                    >
                    Ok, I'll take a stab at it. Check out this URL (it comes directly from
                    National):

                    http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-813/


                    What Makes a Trained Leader?

                    * *Cub Scout leaders* are considered trained when they have
                    completed New Leader Essentials and the Cub Scout Leader Specific
                    training for their position.
                    * *Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters* are considered trained
                    when they have completed New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster and
                    Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, and Introduction
                    to Outdoor Leader Skills.
                    * *Troop committee members* are considered trained when they have
                    completed New Leader Essentials and the Troop Committee Challenge
                    as their Leader Specific training.
                    * *Varsity Scout leaders and assistants* are considered trained when
                    they have completed New Leader Essentials, Varsity Scout Leader
                    Specific Training (available April 2002), and Introduction to
                    Outdoor Leader Skills.
                    * *Venturing crew Advisors, assistant Advisors, and crew committee
                    members* are considered trained when they have completed New
                    Leader Essentials and Venturing Leader Specific Training.

                    Wendell Brown
                    Scouter_T Moderator
                  • edward michelin
                    Hi Jim, I share your frustraions. YP is a National requirement. With most training it is given. The problem arises because of two things. First YP can be taken
                    Message 9 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                      Hi Jim,
                      I share your frustraions. YP is a National requirement. With most training it is given. The problem arises because of two things. First YP can be taken separately - on line - at the troop level and at training courses. To some this may make it a optional course. Secondly, althought YP is recommended by National to be given at all courses, it is not required. This leaves Councils/Districts trainers to pick and choose when to give.
                      National should make it a prerequiste for new leaders at their initial training,as well as requiring retaking the courses every two years.

                      Ed Michelin

                      JimK <jimsub2@...> wrote:
                      I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the responses
                      say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                      frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                      Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                      particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National source (not
                      another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.

                      - Jim



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                    • John Halter
                      A new troop leader is considered trained upon completion of Fast Start Orientation, New Leader Essentials, and all four parts of Scoutmaster and Assistant
                      Message 10 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                        "A new troop leader is considered trained upon completion of Fast Start
                        Orientation, New Leader Essentials, and all four parts of Scoutmaster
                        and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training. Troop committee
                        members and Webelos leaders who plan to move into a leadership position
                        in a troop are encouraged to complete this training as well."
                        This is from Nationals website. I didn't specify the different
                        requirements for SM/ASM's and Troop Committee members in my first post
                        but should have. According to the website, the Leader Specific Training
                        for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters is divided into 4 parts, the
                        fourth part being IOLS. Troop committee Leader Specific Training
                        includes the Troop Committee Challenge. This information can be found here:
                        http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-390/#c
                        Fast Start is not required by any program to be considered trained.
                        Youth Protection is considered Supplemental Training.

                        Thank you,

                        John Halter
                        Pack Trainer
                        Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                        www.pack230.com
                        Assistant Scoutmaster
                        Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                        Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                        www.wekiwa.org
                        "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                        ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442



                        JimK wrote:

                        > I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the responses
                        > say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                        > frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                        > Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                        > particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National source
                        > (not
                        > another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                        >
                        > - Jim
                        >
                        >
                        >
                        > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                        > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                        >
                        > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                        >
                        >
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                      • John Halter
                        Youth Protection is not required by National to be considered a trained leader. Whether or not it should be a prerequisite is an entirely different
                        Message 11 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                          Youth Protection is not required by National to be considered a trained
                          leader. Whether or not it should be a prerequisite is an entirely
                          different discussion. If we're going to make something 'required', I
                          would like to start with basic training (NLE & LST) but again, that's a
                          different discussion.

                          Thank you,

                          John Halter
                          Pack Trainer
                          Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                          www.pack230.com
                          Assistant Scoutmaster
                          Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                          Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                          www.wekiwa.org
                          "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                          ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442


                          edward michelin wrote:

                          >Hi Jim,
                          >I share your frustraions. YP is a National requirement. With most training it is given. The problem arises because of two things. First YP can be taken separately - on line - at the troop level and at training courses. To some this may make it a optional course. Secondly, althought YP is recommended by National to be given at all courses, it is not required. This leaves Councils/Districts trainers to pick and choose when to give.
                          >National should make it a prerequiste for new leaders at their initial training,as well as requiring retaking the courses every two years.
                          >
                          >
                        • bufflo@juno.com
                          Fast Start New Leader Essentials Troop Committee Challenge YIS Laura From the Every Boy Deserves a Trained Leader pamphlet As the first section of Basic
                          Message 12 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                            Fast Start
                            New Leader Essentials
                            Troop Committee Challenge

                            YIS
                            Laura

                            From the "Every Boy Deserves a Trained Leader" pamphlet

                            As the first section of Basic Leader Training, New Leader Essentials is a 90-minute introductory session that highlights the values, aims, history, funding, and methods of Scouting and provides new leaders with a look at the resources available to them. New Leader Essentials often is offered as the first part of Leader Specific Training.

                            Troop Committee Training
                            For troop committee members, Leader Specific Training includes Troop Committee Challenge. Upon completion of the three-hour challenge, a troop committee member is considered trained.

                            The "Trained" emblem is available to all adult leaders who have completed Fast Start Orientation, New Leader Essentials, and Leader Specific Training for their position. It is worn on the left sleeve, below and touching the emblem of leadership for which it was earned.
                          • edward michelin
                            To all Please try this website - It set forth the national guildlines. I hope everyone will agree that even though as some have pointed out that YP is
                            Message 13 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                              To all
                              Please try this website - It set forth the national guildlines.
                              I hope everyone will agree that even though as some have pointed out that YP is Supplemental traing. It is required supplemental training - not required for the "trained Patch" but none the less required to be around scouts.

                              If you can't go directly to this site - cut and paste it to your url

                              http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/pages/71_youth_protection.cfm










                              Wendell Brown <wbrown@...> wrote:
                              JimK wrote:

                              >I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the responses
                              >say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                              >frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                              >Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                              >particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National source (not
                              >another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                              >
                              >
                              Ok, I'll take a stab at it. Check out this URL (it comes directly from
                              National):

                              http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-813/


                              What Makes a Trained Leader?

                              * *Cub Scout leaders* are considered trained when they have
                              completed New Leader Essentials and the Cub Scout Leader Specific
                              training for their position.
                              * *Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters* are considered trained
                              when they have completed New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster and
                              Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, and Introduction
                              to Outdoor Leader Skills.
                              * *Troop committee members* are considered trained when they have
                              completed New Leader Essentials and the Troop Committee Challenge
                              as their Leader Specific training.
                              * *Varsity Scout leaders and assistants* are considered trained when
                              they have completed New Leader Essentials, Varsity Scout Leader
                              Specific Training (available April 2002), and Introduction to
                              Outdoor Leader Skills.
                              * *Venturing crew Advisors, assistant Advisors, and crew committee
                              members* are considered trained when they have completed New
                              Leader Essentials and Venturing Leader Specific Training.

                              Wendell Brown
                              Scouter_T Moderator


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                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                            • mrmarks2@aol.com
                              The original question and discussion related to the requirements for the TRAINED patch. YPT is not REQUIRED training for the trained patch. In fact it s not
                              Message 14 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                                The original question and discussion related to the requirements for the
                                TRAINED patch.

                                YPT is not REQUIRED training for the trained patch. In fact it's not
                                required training for any leader. However if a unit wants to take their youth
                                anywhere (requiring a tour permit) "someone" needs to be trained.

                                Where I think we all agree is the training is worthwhile -- and everyone
                                "SHOULD" take youth protection training.



                                In a message dated 1/14/2005 4:33:04 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                edmitch456@... writes:


                                To all
                                Please try this website - It set forth the national guildlines.
                                I hope everyone will agree that even though as some have pointed out that YP
                                is Supplemental traing. It is required supplemental training - not required
                                for the "trained Patch" but none the less required to be around scouts.

                                If you can't go directly to this site - cut and paste it to your url





                                [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                              • John Halter
                                Not trying to be argumentative, but the website you list does not say that it is required for a leader to be around scouts. It says that: BSA Youth
                                Message 15 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                                  Not trying to be argumentative, but the website you list does not say
                                  that it is required for a leader to be around scouts. It says that:
                                  "BSA Youth Protection Training is now *required* for at least one adult
                                  present during any event or activity needed a local or national tour
                                  permit. Further, every adult participating in nationally sponsored
                                  events and activities must be trained in BSA Youth Protection."
                                  I agree that it would be a good idea to require all leaders to receive
                                  YP training, but the original question was whether or not it was
                                  required to be considered Trained.
                                  Having said that, Jim pointed out something that I had overlooked when I
                                  posted earlier. The National web page I was referring to does list Fast
                                  Start Orientation as one of the portions of training to be considered
                                  trained. My question to everyone is this, how many districts conduct
                                  Fast Start Orientation? How does the training team/chair verify that
                                  Fast Start has been completed before they award the leader with their
                                  Trained strip? Do they even ask? I know our district does not conduct
                                  Fast Start Orientation and it is not required before we issue the leader
                                  their training card and strip.

                                  Thank you,

                                  John Halter
                                  Pack Trainer
                                  Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                                  www.pack230.com
                                  Assistant Scoutmaster
                                  Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                                  Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                  www.wekiwa.org
                                  "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                                  ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442


                                  edward michelin wrote:

                                  > To all
                                  > Please try this website - It set forth the national guildlines.
                                  > I hope everyone will agree that even though as some have pointed out
                                  > that YP is Supplemental traing. It is required supplemental training -
                                  > not required for the "trained Patch" but none the less required to be
                                  > around scouts.
                                  >
                                  > If you can't go directly to this site - cut and paste it to your url
                                  >
                                  > http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/pages/71_youth_protection.cfm
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > Wendell Brown <wbrown@...> wrote:
                                  > JimK wrote:
                                  >
                                  > >I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the
                                  > responses
                                  > >say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                                  > >frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                                  > >Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                                  > >particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National
                                  > source (not
                                  > >another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                                  > >
                                  > >
                                  > Ok, I'll take a stab at it. Check out this URL (it comes directly from
                                  > National):
                                  >
                                  > http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-813/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > What Makes a Trained Leader?
                                  >
                                  > * *Cub Scout leaders* are considered trained when they have
                                  > completed New Leader Essentials and the Cub Scout Leader Specific
                                  > training for their position.
                                  > * *Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters* are considered trained
                                  > when they have completed New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster and
                                  > Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, and Introduction
                                  > to Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                  > * *Troop committee members* are considered trained when they have
                                  > completed New Leader Essentials and the Troop Committee Challenge
                                  > as their Leader Specific training.
                                  > * *Varsity Scout leaders and assistants* are considered trained when
                                  > they have completed New Leader Essentials, Varsity Scout Leader
                                  > Specific Training (available April 2002), and Introduction to
                                  > Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                  > * *Venturing crew Advisors, assistant Advisors, and crew committee
                                  > members* are considered trained when they have completed New
                                  > Leader Essentials and Venturing Leader Specific Training.
                                  >
                                  > Wendell Brown
                                  > Scouter_T Moderator
                                  >
                                  >
                                  > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                  > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                  >
                                  > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                                  >
                                  >
                                  >
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                                • mrmarks2@aol.com
                                  Jim, Good points. Fast Start is meant to be a unit based training. A new leader (or parent) should be given or shown the videotape - or directed to the URL
                                  Message 16 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
                                  • 0 Attachment
                                    Jim,

                                    Good points.

                                    Fast Start is meant to be a "unit based" training. A new leader (or parent)
                                    should be given or shown the videotape - or directed to the URL so they can
                                    complete the training at their leisure. Note the Cub Scout version is now
                                    being distributed on CD in a new Den Leaders packet.

                                    The mechanism for recording the training is trust - and a lot of follow-up.
                                    The on-line Fast Start training "might" have a connection to the back-end
                                    database (ScoutNet) sometime in the future. For now, we need to keep asking
                                    folks if they took the training and trusting their answers.

                                    In answer to your other question "do training team/chairs even ask"? In
                                    many cases the do not.... and in many cases they do. Depends on how much time
                                    they have, how well-trained they were in their job, etc. etc.



                                    In a message dated 1/14/2005 4:52:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,
                                    john@... writes:

                                    Having said that, Jim pointed out something that I had overlooked when I
                                    posted earlier. The National web page I was referring to does list Fast
                                    Start Orientation as one of the portions of training to be considered
                                    trained. My question to everyone is this, how many districts conduct
                                    Fast Start Orientation? How does the training team/chair verify that
                                    Fast Start has been completed before they award the leader with their
                                    Trained strip? Do they even ask? I know our district does not conduct
                                    Fast Start Orientation and it is not required before we issue the leader
                                    their training card and strip.

                                    Thank you,

                                    John Halter





                                    [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                  • Richard Pushies
                                    Hi John, Youth Protection Training, not required to be considered trained. Yet, we all agree everyone, youth and adult, should be Youth Protection Trained.
                                    Message 17 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
                                    • 0 Attachment
                                      Hi John,

                                      Youth Protection Training, not "required" to be considered trained.
                                      Yet, we all agree everyone, youth and adult, should be Youth
                                      Protection Trained.

                                      Fast Start Training was once conducted by our training staff in the
                                      district, now we have new leaders take the training on-line.

                                      Cub Training: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/faststart/
                                      Viewers Guide: http://www.scouting.org/cubscouts/f
                                      aststart/art/06-801.pdf

                                      Boy Scout Training: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/faststart/
                                      Viewers Guide: http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/faststart/18-350.pdf

                                      Venturing Training: http://www.scouting.org/ventur
                                      ing/faststart/index.html

                                      Hope this helps.

                                      Yours Truly in Scouting,
                                      Rick Pushies



                                      --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, John Halter <john@p...> wrote:
                                      > Not trying to be argumentative, but the website you list does not
                                      say
                                      > that it is required for a leader to be around scouts. It says that:
                                      > "BSA Youth Protection Training is now *required* for at least one
                                      adult
                                      > present during any event or activity needed a local or national
                                      tour
                                      > permit. Further, every adult participating in nationally sponsored
                                      > events and activities must be trained in BSA Youth Protection."
                                      > I agree that it would be a good idea to require all leaders to
                                      receive
                                      > YP training, but the original question was whether or not it was
                                      > required to be considered Trained.
                                      > Having said that, Jim pointed out something that I had overlooked
                                      when I
                                      > posted earlier. The National web page I was referring to does list
                                      Fast
                                      > Start Orientation as one of the portions of training to be
                                      considered
                                      > trained. My question to everyone is this, how many districts
                                      conduct
                                      > Fast Start Orientation? How does the training team/chair verify
                                      that
                                      > Fast Start has been completed before they award the leader with
                                      their
                                      > Trained strip? Do they even ask? I know our district does not
                                      conduct
                                      > Fast Start Orientation and it is not required before we issue the
                                      leader
                                      > their training card and strip.
                                      >
                                      > Thank you,
                                      >
                                      > John Halter
                                      > Pack Trainer
                                      > Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                                      > www.pack230.com
                                      > Assistant Scoutmaster
                                      > Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                                      > Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                      > www.wekiwa.org
                                      > "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                                      > ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
                                      >
                                      >
                                      > edward michelin wrote:
                                      >
                                      > > To all
                                      > > Please try this website - It set forth the national guildlines.
                                      > > I hope everyone will agree that even though as some have pointed
                                      out
                                      > > that YP is Supplemental traing. It is required supplemental
                                      training -
                                      > > not required for the "trained Patch" but none the less required
                                      to be
                                      > > around scouts.
                                      > >
                                      > > If you can't go directly to this site - cut and paste it to your
                                      url
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/pages/71_youth_protection.cfm
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > Wendell Brown <wbrown@a...> wrote:
                                      > > JimK wrote:
                                      > >
                                      > > >I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the
                                      > > responses
                                      > > >say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is
                                      one of my
                                      > > >frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing
                                      information.
                                      > > >Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for
                                      this
                                      > > >particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National
                                      > > source (not
                                      > > >another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                                      > > >
                                      > > >
                                      > > Ok, I'll take a stab at it. Check out this URL (it comes directly
                                      from
                                      > > National):
                                      > >
                                      > > http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-813/
                                      > >
                                      > >
                                      > > What Makes a Trained Leader?
                                      > >
                                      > > * *Cub Scout leaders* are considered trained when they have
                                      > > completed New Leader Essentials and the Cub Scout Leader
                                      Specific
                                      > > training for their position.
                                      > > * *Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters* are considered
                                      trained
                                      > > when they have completed New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster
                                      and
                                      > > Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, and
                                      Introduction
                                      > > to Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                      > > * *Troop committee members* are considered trained when they
                                      have
                                      > > completed New Leader Essentials and the Troop Committee
                                      Challenge
                                      > > as their Leader Specific training.
                                      > > * *Varsity Scout leaders and assistants* are considered
                                      trained when
                                      > > they have completed New Leader Essentials, Varsity Scout
                                      Leader
                                      > > Specific Training (available April 2002), and Introduction
                                      to
                                      > > Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                      > > * *Venturing crew Advisors, assistant Advisors, and crew
                                      committee
                                      > > members* are considered trained when they have completed New
                                      > > Leader Essentials and Venturing Leader Specific Training.
                                      > >
                                      > > Wendell Brown
                                      > > Scouter_T Moderator
                                      > >
                                      > >
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                                    • Dave Loomis
                                      Nope, IOLS isonly required for the SM & SA. Committee critters need not take it. Varsity leaders will require it though. Dave ... To reply, click on the
                                      Message 18 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
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                                        Nope, IOLS isonly required for the SM & SA. Committee critters
                                        need not take it. Varsity leaders will require it though.

                                        Dave

                                        Fred Goodwin, CMA wrote:

                                        > > Date: Thu, 13 Jan 2005 13:11:41 -0500
                                        > > From: John Halter <john@...>
                                        > >
                                        > > For the Boy Scout program, you also need to complete the Intro to
                                        > > Outdoor Leader Skills to be considered trained.
                                        >
                                        > John, are Troop Committee members required to take IOLS in order to
                                        > be considered "trained" as committee members? I thought IOLS was
                                        > required of SMs and ASMs only, but I could be mistaken.
                                        >
                                        > Fred Goodwin

                                        To reply, click on the address below.

                                        Dave Loomis dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                                        245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                                        Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                                      • Dave Loomis
                                        Message 19 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
                                        • 0 Attachment
                                        • Dave Loomis
                                          Bin item 18-813 and bin item 18-390 BOTH require a leader to have completed Fast Start to be considered trained. Bin item 18-813 is/was the initial
                                          Message 20 of 29 , Jan 14, 2005
                                          • 0 Attachment
                                            Bin item 18-813 and bin item 18-390 BOTH require a leader to have
                                            completed Fast Start to be considered trained. Bin item 18-813 is/was
                                            the initial announcement of the new training continuum, which appeared
                                            around 2001. Bin item 18-390 is some later info sheet from National,
                                            but it still requires Fast Start, Scoutmaster Specific Training, and
                                            IOLS for the scouter to be trained. The four parts referred to in some
                                            of the posts are the four parts of the Fast Start video, NOT parts of SM
                                            & ASM position specific training. Committee folks require Fast Start
                                            and THEIR specific leader training course, Troop Committee Challenges,
                                            but NOT IOLS.

                                            Dave
                                            District BS Training Chair
                                            Historic District
                                            Daniel Webster Council (NH)

                                            John Halter wrote:

                                            > "A new troop leader is considered trained upon completion of Fast Start
                                            > Orientation, New Leader Essentials, and all four parts of Scoutmaster
                                            > and Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training. Troop committee
                                            > members and Webelos leaders who plan to move into a leadership position
                                            > in a troop are encouraged to complete this training as well."
                                            > This is from Nationals website. I didn't specify the different
                                            > requirements for SM/ASM's and Troop Committee members in my first post
                                            > but should have. According to the website, the Leader Specific Training
                                            > for Scoutmasters and Assistant Scoutmasters is divided into 4 parts, the
                                            > fourth part being IOLS. Troop committee Leader Specific Training
                                            > includes the Troop Committee Challenge. This information can be found
                                            > here:
                                            > http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-390/#c
                                            > Fast Start is not required by any program to be considered trained.
                                            > Youth Protection is considered Supplemental Training.
                                            >
                                            > Thank you,
                                            >
                                            > John Halter
                                            > Pack Trainer
                                            > Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                                            > www.pack230.com
                                            > Assistant Scoutmaster
                                            > Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                                            > Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                            > www.wekiwa.org
                                            > "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                                            > ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
                                            >
                                            >
                                            >
                                            > JimK wrote:
                                            >
                                            > > I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the
                                            > responses
                                            > > say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                                            > > frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                                            > > Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                                            > > particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National source
                                            > > (not
                                            > > another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                                            > >
                                            > > - Jim
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                            > > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                            > >
                                            > > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                                            > >
                                            > >
                                            > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------
                                            > > *Yahoo! Groups Links*
                                            > >
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                                            --
                                            To reply, click on the address below.

                                            Dave Loomis dloomis.nh.ultranet@...
                                            245 Union St. (603) 431 5342
                                            Portsmouth, NH 03801-4349
                                          • Bryan Polyak
                                            For the trained patch, a leader must complete basic training- fast start [orientation], new leaders essentials and leader specific. For knots , youth
                                            Message 21 of 29 , Jan 16, 2005
                                            • 0 Attachment
                                              For the trained patch, a leader must complete basic training- fast start [orientation], new leaders essentials and leader specific. For "knots", youth protection must be completed.

                                              As council training chair, I direct training team to ask leaders if they have taken fast start [either online or video]. We rely on the leader to honestly say if they have completed the training. At our day long training events, we show fast start during lunch. On the evening trainings, we have it on hand for participants to watch or to take home. We also coordinate with the School Night for Scouting folks to encourage showing video the night adults sign up to be leaders.

                                              We have begun a new Cub Scout Leader 101 where we give leaders resources for the first month of meetings- plus we show fast start at the very end. This allows leaders to choose to stick around or do it at home.

                                              Diane Polyak
                                              Sioux Council Training Chair

                                              Basically, we expect leaders to be trustworthy and to let us know if they have had the training.

                                              John Halter <john@...> wrote:
                                              Not trying to be argumentative, but the website you list does not say
                                              that it is required for a leader to be around scouts. It says that:
                                              "BSA Youth Protection Training is now *required* for at least one adult
                                              present during any event or activity needed a local or national tour
                                              permit. Further, every adult participating in nationally sponsored
                                              events and activities must be trained in BSA Youth Protection."
                                              I agree that it would be a good idea to require all leaders to receive
                                              YP training, but the original question was whether or not it was
                                              required to be considered Trained.
                                              Having said that, Jim pointed out something that I had overlooked when I
                                              posted earlier. The National web page I was referring to does list Fast
                                              Start Orientation as one of the portions of training to be considered
                                              trained. My question to everyone is this, how many districts conduct
                                              Fast Start Orientation? How does the training team/chair verify that
                                              Fast Start has been completed before they award the leader with their
                                              Trained strip? Do they even ask? I know our district does not conduct
                                              Fast Start Orientation and it is not required before we issue the leader
                                              their training card and strip.

                                              Thank you,

                                              John Halter
                                              Pack Trainer
                                              Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                                              www.pack230.com
                                              Assistant Scoutmaster
                                              Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                                              Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                              www.wekiwa.org
                                              "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                                              ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442


                                              edward michelin wrote:

                                              > To all
                                              > Please try this website - It set forth the national guildlines.
                                              > I hope everyone will agree that even though as some have pointed out
                                              > that YP is Supplemental traing. It is required supplemental training -
                                              > not required for the "trained Patch" but none the less required to be
                                              > around scouts.
                                              >
                                              > If you can't go directly to this site - cut and paste it to your url
                                              >
                                              > http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/pages/71_youth_protection.cfm
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > Wendell Brown <wbrown@...> wrote:
                                              > JimK wrote:
                                              >
                                              > >I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the
                                              > responses
                                              > >say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is one of my
                                              > >frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing information.
                                              > >Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for this
                                              > >particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National
                                              > source (not
                                              > >another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                                              > >
                                              > >
                                              > Ok, I'll take a stab at it. Check out this URL (it comes directly from
                                              > National):
                                              >
                                              > http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-813/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > What Makes a Trained Leader?
                                              >
                                              > * *Cub Scout leaders* are considered trained when they have
                                              > completed New Leader Essentials and the Cub Scout Leader Specific
                                              > training for their position.
                                              > * *Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters* are considered trained
                                              > when they have completed New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster and
                                              > Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, and Introduction
                                              > to Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                              > * *Troop committee members* are considered trained when they have
                                              > completed New Leader Essentials and the Troop Committee Challenge
                                              > as their Leader Specific training.
                                              > * *Varsity Scout leaders and assistants* are considered trained when
                                              > they have completed New Leader Essentials, Varsity Scout Leader
                                              > Specific Training (available April 2002), and Introduction to
                                              > Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                              > * *Venturing crew Advisors, assistant Advisors, and crew committee
                                              > members* are considered trained when they have completed New
                                              > Leader Essentials and Venturing Leader Specific Training.
                                              >
                                              > Wendell Brown
                                              > Scouter_T Moderator
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > For subscription and delevery options send a message to:
                                              > scouter_t-help@yahoogroups.com
                                              >
                                              > Scouting The Net - http://www.ScoutingTheNet.com/
                                              >
                                              >
                                              >
                                              > ---------------------------------
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                                              >
                                              > To visit your group on the web, go to:
                                              > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scouter_t/
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                                              >
                                              >
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                                              > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
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                                              [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
                                            • Richard Pushies
                                              Dear Diane, The reference to my comments is the Leadership Training Committee Guide, #34169F. This is the official publication of the Boy Scouts of America
                                              Message 22 of 29 , Jan 16, 2005
                                              • 0 Attachment
                                                Dear Diane,

                                                The reference to my comments is the Leadership Training Committee
                                                Guide, #34169F. This is the official publication of the Boy Scouts of
                                                America regarding training.

                                                "The local council is the final authority in interpreting and
                                                approving all training awards. Interpretation of the requirements for
                                                the various awards is the responsibility of the council training
                                                committee." taken from Leadership Training Committee Guide, #34169F.

                                                So,your council may have interpreted the requirements to include
                                                Youth Protection Training for all training awards (knots). However
                                                the requirements for training awards published in the Leadership
                                                Training Committee Guide DO NOT list Youth Protection Training as a
                                                requirement for all training awards.

                                                The Cub Scout Training Awards (knots) DO require Youth Protection
                                                Training. All the other Training Awards (Boy Scout, Varsity,
                                                Venturing, Commissioner, Roundtable, Sea Scouting) DO NOT REQUIRE
                                                Youth Protection Training.

                                                So, if your comment is that your local council has interpreted the
                                                requirements to include Youth Protection Training for all training
                                                awards (knots), your may be correct. If your comment is a statement
                                                about the requirements published by the Boy Scouts of America for
                                                Training Awards (knots), your statements is only correct for Scouters
                                                earning Training Awards within the Cub Scout Program.

                                                Yours Truly in Scouting,
                                                Rick Pushies
                                                --------------------------------------------------------------------

                                                --- In scouter_t@yahoogroups.com, Bryan Polyak <bjpolyak64@y...>
                                                wrote:
                                                > For the trained patch, a leader must complete basic training- fast
                                                start [orientation], new leaders essentials and leader specific.
                                                For "knots", youth protection must be completed.
                                                >
                                                > As council training chair, I direct training team to ask leaders if
                                                they have taken fast start [either online or video]. We rely on the
                                                leader to honestly say if they have completed the training. At our
                                                day long training events, we show fast start during lunch. On the
                                                evening trainings, we have it on hand for participants to watch or
                                                to take home. We also coordinate with the School Night for Scouting
                                                folks to encourage showing video the night adults sign up to be
                                                leaders.
                                                >
                                                > We have begun a new Cub Scout Leader 101 where we give leaders
                                                resources for the first month of meetings- plus we show fast start at
                                                the very end. This allows leaders to choose to stick around or do it
                                                at home.
                                                >
                                                > Diane Polyak
                                                > Sioux Council Training Chair
                                                >
                                                > Basically, we expect leaders to be trustworthy and to let us know
                                                if they have had the training.
                                                >
                                                > John Halter <john@p...> wrote:
                                                > Not trying to be argumentative, but the website you list does not
                                                say
                                                > that it is required for a leader to be around scouts. It says that:
                                                > "BSA Youth Protection Training is now *required* for at least one
                                                adult
                                                > present during any event or activity needed a local or national
                                                tour
                                                > permit. Further, every adult participating in nationally sponsored
                                                > events and activities must be trained in BSA Youth Protection."
                                                > I agree that it would be a good idea to require all leaders to
                                                receive
                                                > YP training, but the original question was whether or not it was
                                                > required to be considered Trained.
                                                > Having said that, Jim pointed out something that I had overlooked
                                                when I
                                                > posted earlier. The National web page I was referring to does list
                                                Fast
                                                > Start Orientation as one of the portions of training to be
                                                considered
                                                > trained. My question to everyone is this, how many districts
                                                conduct
                                                > Fast Start Orientation? How does the training team/chair verify
                                                that
                                                > Fast Start has been completed before they award the leader with
                                                their
                                                > Trained strip? Do they even ask? I know our district does not
                                                conduct
                                                > Fast Start Orientation and it is not required before we issue the
                                                leader
                                                > their training card and strip.
                                                >
                                                > Thank you,
                                                >
                                                > John Halter
                                                > Pack Trainer
                                                > Pack 230 Apopka Florida
                                                > www.pack230.com
                                                > Assistant Scoutmaster
                                                > Troop 936 Longwood Florida
                                                > Wekiwa District Cub Scout Roundtable Commissioner
                                                > www.wekiwa.org
                                                > "PackDude" at www.Scoutboard.com
                                                > ...and a good 'ol Bobwhite too! SR442
                                                >
                                                >
                                                > edward michelin wrote:
                                                >
                                                > > To all
                                                > > Please try this website - It set forth the national guildlines.
                                                > > I hope everyone will agree that even though as some have pointed
                                                out
                                                > > that YP is Supplemental traing. It is required supplemental
                                                training -
                                                > > not required for the "trained Patch" but none the less required
                                                to be
                                                > > around scouts.
                                                > >
                                                > > If you can't go directly to this site - cut and paste it to your
                                                url
                                                > >
                                                > > http://www.boyscouts-ncac.org/pages/71_youth_protection.cfm
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > Wendell Brown <wbrown@a...> wrote:
                                                > > JimK wrote:
                                                > >
                                                > > >I don't see this question getting answered adequately. Half the
                                                > > responses
                                                > > >say YP is required while the other half say it isn't. This is
                                                one of my
                                                > > >frustrations with Scouting: conflicting and/or missing
                                                information.
                                                > > >Obviously, people responding from memory is not sufficient for
                                                this
                                                > > >particular detail. Would someone like to quote from a National
                                                > > source (not
                                                > > >another mailing list)? Hopefully that will put this to rest.
                                                > > >
                                                > > >
                                                > > Ok, I'll take a stab at it. Check out this URL (it comes
                                                directly from
                                                > > National):
                                                > >
                                                > > http://www.scouting.org/boyscouts/resources/18-813/
                                                > >
                                                > >
                                                > > What Makes a Trained Leader?
                                                > >
                                                > > * *Cub Scout leaders* are considered trained when they have
                                                > > completed New Leader Essentials and the Cub Scout Leader
                                                Specific
                                                > > training for their position.
                                                > > * *Scoutmasters and assistant Scoutmasters* are considered
                                                trained
                                                > > when they have completed New Leader Essentials, Scoutmaster
                                                and
                                                > > Assistant Scoutmaster Leader Specific Training, and
                                                Introduction
                                                > > to Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                                > > * *Troop committee members* are considered trained when they
                                                have
                                                > > completed New Leader Essentials and the Troop Committee
                                                Challenge
                                                > > as their Leader Specific training.
                                                > > * *Varsity Scout leaders and assistants* are considered
                                                trained when
                                                > > they have completed New Leader Essentials, Varsity Scout
                                                Leader
                                                > > Specific Training (available April 2002), and Introduction
                                                to
                                                > > Outdoor Leader Skills.
                                                > > * *Venturing crew Advisors, assistant Advisors, and crew
                                                committee
                                                > > members* are considered trained when they have completed New
                                                > > Leader Essentials and Venturing Leader Specific Training.
                                                > >
                                                > > Wendell Brown
                                                > > Scouter_T Moderator
                                                > >
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