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RE: [Scouter_T] Re:Survival Game

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  • Mullaney, Peter [AMSRD-AAR-AEE-P]
    Interesting, I surprised that they don t ask: With the ground frozen, how do the bury the survivors? ;-) Pete Mullaney ... From: Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
    Message 1 of 11 , Nov 3, 2004
      Interesting, I surprised that they don't ask: "With the ground frozen,
      how do the bury the survivors?"

      ;-)
      Pete Mullaney

      -----Original Message-----
      From: Ken.Walker@... [mailto:Ken.Walker@...]
      Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 6:02 PM
      To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
      Subject: [Scouter_T] Re:Survival Game


      Gary/all-
      I have "played" this game (and it's variations) in various corporate
      settings.
      (However, I think my group was stranded by a plane crash in Eastern Canada.
      LOL)

      I probably have a copy buried in an old training files, or could recreate a
      list of the props, and their need (or lack there of). However, I think it's
      copyright protected (so the creators can make money selling it to corporate
      trainers.) I can check with a friend that does this for a living and see
      what she knows.

      As I recall, "correct responses" are based on the expert opinion of the
      Canadian SAR (Search & Rescue) teams.
      In fact, the MOST IMPORTANT decision is not "what to take", but "do I go,
      or do I stay?".
      That decision also impacts the priority of the list.
      The right answer is STAY PUT. (Same answer as the Wilderness Survival MB!)

      Of course, the real "learning objective" isn't the decisions -- it's the
      discovery that "none of us is as smart as all of us". Typically, the
      participants will INDIVIDUALLY select their response to the situation, and
      then work as a team to create a team response. USUALLY, the team response
      is much, much better than any individual response. Of course, some highly
      dysfunctional teams regress to a worse set of responses (been there, it
      ain't pretty).

      Here's a link to something that looks similar:
      http://scoutingweb.com/scoutingweb/SubPages/SurvivalGame.htm
      <http://scoutingweb.com/scoutingweb/SubPages/SurvivalGame.htm>




      [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
    • Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
      I looked thru my copy of Woods Wisdom, and think I found what Mark was talking about. It took some digging, as it wasn t part of Wilderness Survival (or
      Message 2 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
        I looked thru my copy of Woods Wisdom, and think I found what Mark was
        talking about.

        It took some digging, as it wasn't part of Wilderness Survival (or
        Emergency Preparation). In fact, I kinda stumbled over it by accident, as
        it's actually in the Leadership section -- figures! The game is called
        "Stranded". I scanned it and put it in the Files section. Look for
        Stranded.doc in the Outdoor_Program section.

        Side Note: Be careful if you blindly follow the "experts opinion", as you
        may get much debate on several "opinions".

        Much of the "Stranded" advice contradicts info provided by the Wilderness
        Survival MB.
        When stranded, your priorities should be:
        1. Positive Mental Attitude
        2. First-Aid
        3. Shelter
        4. Fire building
        5. Signaling device
        6. Water
        7. Food

        Here are some of the recommended items from the Stranded list:
        "Rank #10. Sheath knife. This could be useful for preparing any captured
        animals, such as frogs, or cutting string, cheese, a pole, etc."
        The WS MB doesn't recommend that Scouts capture and/or eat wild animals.
        It's too risky.

        "Rank #13. First-aid kit. Adhesive bandages, aspirin, and petroleum jelly
        would be useful for minor injuries."
        Clearly, this should be MUCH higher based on the priorities above.

        "Rank #15. Map. An auto map could be useful for sighting major land- marks
        like lakes, rivers, etc."
        True. But who's going anywhere?? We teach "hug a tree" when you're lost. No
        need for a map (unless you use it to start a wood fire.!).

        It's also interesting that food is so highly ranked, given it's the LAST
        item in the WS MB priority list.

        Also, some of this info is seems very dated. For example it says the
        following items would not be necessary:

        "5-gallon water jug. The water in the Maine wilderness is potable."
        Hhmmmmmmmm, hardly. With the risk of gerardia and cryptosporidium, it's
        fool-hardy to drink untreated water in the wilderness.

        "Coleman camp stove. Too heavy; wood fires can be used."
        Who's going anywhere? It could be very handy.

        "Rubber raft. Too heavy; also not likely to be useful"
        True, but could be used as a shelter.

        ".44 Magnum gun. Inaccurate for hunting; caliber too large for small game."
        Again, true, but an EXCELLENT signalling device.


        Enough on the exercise critique - just remember to use it carefully.
        Also, as noted in the document, the real learning object is to learn about
        decision making, reaching a group consensus, and [hopefully] learning that
        a group needs the input from everyone to reach the best decisions.

        -Ken Walker
        T-259, Plano, TX



        Mark Neblung wrote on Nov 2, 2004:
        > What you are looking for is in woods wisdom and I believe
        > also it's replacement, Troop Program features. Going from
        > memory, it should be listed under the Wilderness Survival
        > chapter.
        >
        > If you have problem finding it, let me know and I'll do
        > some digging.



        -----Original Message-----
        From: gaalmus@a... [mailto:gaalmus@a...]
        Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:53 AM
        To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
        Subject: [Scouter_T] Survival Game

        I am searching for the survival game that involves a group stranded in
        Maine with the option of selecting from several items to ensure survival.
        The game includes an expanation from experts re. which items should be
        welected and why.

        Does anyone have this?
      • NeilLup@aol.com
        ... I first saw this game as a NASA lost on the moon exercise. That had the advantage of not having anybody there who was, or who thought that they were
        Message 3 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
          In a message dated 11/4/04 4:33:12 PM, Ken.Walker@... writes:


          > Side Note: Be careful if you blindly follow the "experts opinion", as you
          > may get much debate on several "opinions".
          >

          I first saw this game as a NASA "lost on the moon" exercise. That had the
          advantage of not having anybody there who was, or who thought that they were
          super experts and of books contradicting the answer sheet.

          I have used that game several times and it has always worked well. It
          might be desirable to determine if you want to have mainly a team activities
          exercise or a wilderness survival discussion and debate.

          Best wishes,

          Neil Lupton


          [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
        • R Fisher
          Greetings Ken ... Not trying to be contrary, and hence the reason not posted to the list, but many survival texts now suggest if rescue is not imminent and
          Message 4 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
            Greetings Ken

            > Also, some of this info is seems very dated. For example it
            > says the following items would not be necessary:
            >
            > "5-gallon water jug. The water in the Maine wilderness is
            > potable." Hhmmmmmmmm, hardly. With the risk of gerardia and
            > cryptosporidium, it's fool-hardy to drink untreated water in
            > the wilderness.

            Not trying to be contrary, and hence the reason not posted to the list,
            but many "survival" texts now suggest if rescue is not imminent and if
            the water appears "normal" i.e. in a flowing stream, pond etc. go ahead
            and drink. Giardia and crypto will make you feel bad but can be treated
            once you are rescued. Dehydration and its unpleasant final result
            (death) can prevent you from being rescued and is untreatable.

            YiS

            Roy Fisher
          • R Fisher
            ... OOPS! Well, even if I am contrary, (and maybe a little thick) I hope I was still . . . Friendly, Courteous, Kind . . . YiS Roy Fisher
            Message 5 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
              >
              > Not trying to be contrary, and hence the reason not posted to
              > the list,

              OOPS! Well, even if I am contrary, (and maybe a little thick) I hope I
              was still . . . Friendly, Courteous, Kind . . .

              YiS

              Roy Fisher
            • Rod Smith
              Ken, I haven t been on Scouter -T for awhile and don t remember how to sign on. Can you help me? Rod ... From: Ken.Walker@mscsoftware.com
              Message 6 of 11 , Nov 4, 2004
                Ken,

                I haven't been on Scouter -T for awhile and don't remember how to sign on.
                Can you help me?

                Rod

                -----Original Message-----
                From: Ken.Walker@... [mailto:Ken.Walker@...]
                Sent: Thursday, November 04, 2004 4:28 PM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: RE: [Scouter_T] Survival Game


                I looked thru my copy of Woods Wisdom, and think I found what Mark was
                talking about.

                It took some digging, as it wasn't part of Wilderness Survival (or
                Emergency Preparation). In fact, I kinda stumbled over it by accident, as
                it's actually in the Leadership section -- figures! The game is called
                "Stranded". I scanned it and put it in the Files section. Look for
                Stranded.doc in the Outdoor_Program section.

                Side Note: Be careful if you blindly follow the "experts opinion", as you
                may get much debate on several "opinions".

                Much of the "Stranded" advice contradicts info provided by the Wilderness
                Survival MB.
                When stranded, your priorities should be:
                1. Positive Mental Attitude
                2. First-Aid
                3. Shelter
                4. Fire building
                5. Signaling device
                6. Water
                7. Food

                Here are some of the recommended items from the Stranded list:
                "Rank #10. Sheath knife. This could be useful for preparing any captured
                animals, such as frogs, or cutting string, cheese, a pole, etc."
                The WS MB doesn't recommend that Scouts capture and/or eat wild animals.
                It's too risky.

                "Rank #13. First-aid kit. Adhesive bandages, aspirin, and petroleum jelly
                would be useful for minor injuries."
                Clearly, this should be MUCH higher based on the priorities above.

                "Rank #15. Map. An auto map could be useful for sighting major land- marks
                like lakes, rivers, etc."
                True. But who's going anywhere?? We teach "hug a tree" when you're lost. No
                need for a map (unless you use it to start a wood fire.!).

                It's also interesting that food is so highly ranked, given it's the LAST
                item in the WS MB priority list.

                Also, some of this info is seems very dated. For example it says the
                following items would not be necessary:

                "5-gallon water jug. The water in the Maine wilderness is potable."
                Hhmmmmmmmm, hardly. With the risk of gerardia and cryptosporidium, it's
                fool-hardy to drink untreated water in the wilderness.

                "Coleman camp stove. Too heavy; wood fires can be used."
                Who's going anywhere? It could be very handy.

                "Rubber raft. Too heavy; also not likely to be useful"
                True, but could be used as a shelter.

                ".44 Magnum gun. Inaccurate for hunting; caliber too large for small game."
                Again, true, but an EXCELLENT signalling device.


                Enough on the exercise critique - just remember to use it carefully.
                Also, as noted in the document, the real learning object is to learn about
                decision making, reaching a group consensus, and [hopefully] learning that
                a group needs the input from everyone to reach the best decisions.

                -Ken Walker
                T-259, Plano, TX



                Mark Neblung wrote on Nov 2, 2004:
                > What you are looking for is in woods wisdom and I believe
                > also it's replacement, Troop Program features. Going from
                > memory, it should be listed under the Wilderness Survival
                > chapter.
                >
                > If you have problem finding it, let me know and I'll do
                > some digging.



                -----Original Message-----
                From: gaalmus@a... [mailto:gaalmus@a...]
                Sent: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 10:53 AM
                To: scouter_t@yahoogroups.com
                Subject: [Scouter_T] Survival Game

                I am searching for the survival game that involves a group stranded in
                Maine with the option of selecting from several items to ensure survival.
                The game includes an expanation from experts re. which items should be
                welected and why.

                Does anyone have this?




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